Thoughts on Marian Apparitions

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I’m still a bit lost. I think you said that you were not “in the communion”, yet you are a high Anglican.

Do you take communion in any Anglican church? Or just some?
I am an Anglican in the Continuum; Anglicans who left the Anglican Communion over a period of time, starting (in America) around 1978, when the Episcopal Church first began running seriously off the rails Try this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Anglican_movement

It’s slightly out of date, but not much wrong, as far as it goes.

There is also a book, DIVIDED WE STAND/Douglas Bess, which tells much of the history of traditional Anglicanism…

Not in the Anglican Communion, which is a different use of the term communion than receiving the sacrament. High Anglican, liturgically, Anglo-Catholic, doctrinally.

Theoretically, I would receive in any Anglican parish whose clergy possessed valid orders. A hard thing to discern.

GKC
 
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I realize that as a Roman Catholic you are under no obligation to either accept the apparitions, join a Marian devotion group, or emphasize the “power of Mary.” That being said, these are all components of Catholicism, and to me in particular, it seems rather odd to just see it around you and simply dismiss it. It’d be like adhereing to the Assemblies of God but ignoring the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. OK, you could technically do it but it is still a big deal.
Puzzling, isn’t it. 😃
Personally I think it’d be nice if the Catholic Church came out with an official statement like: “We recognize and uphold the veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary, she is the best example of human devotion and obedience to God, and is rightfully Queen of Heaven. However, the Church also stresses that Mary was put to this great level soley and entirely via the power of God, not through her own, being a mere human. While we venerate the Blessed Virgin, the distance between her and the most Holy Trinity is infinite, and that can never be forgotten.”
I was actually thinking about just that today. I hope that is what the Church declares as opposed to the opposite.
At any rate, I hope you don’t take my comments as a personal swipe against you. I’m not very far away from where you are, I am just not at the point where I’m willing to commit to any church just yet.
Not at all. Besides, I have seen some Catholics agree with me, so I know I’m not completely wrong.

And that’s it for my (name removed by moderator)ut in this thread. I did make a promise to myself. 😛
 
Puzzling, isn’t it. 😃

I was actually thinking about just that today. I hope that is what the Church declares as opposed to the opposite.

Not at all. Besides, I have seen some Catholics agree with me, so I know I’m not completely wrong.

And that’s it for my (name removed by moderator)ut in this thread. I did make a promise to myself. 😛
Wait, one more imput, please.

May I steal your signature picture? Because epic doesn’t even begin to describe it.
 
Kathmandu,

I just posted on the Infallible teachings of the pope…thread…and was gone yesterday pm…and read some remarks that got me bristling…about the Roman Catholics having little regard or implying this, while the eastern Orthodox Christians suffered many deaths under the communists and this is in regards to Our Lady of Fatima…

On the side here…and I would have to do a search, but in 1983…and you will get more context of this date after you read my post…

That a Fr Herbert Schiffler, Jesuit had just died. He was a Jesuit missionary in Japan, and lived a very short distance from where the atomic bomb had dropped. He survived the blast, being thrown from out of his home into a ditch. He said he was twirling like a leaf. He had his leg broken and became unconscious.

In the end, all 7 German Jesuits survived—as their German country was Nazi and was being destroyed…and they were tested by 200 scientists over a period of time. Many Japanese had died by them.

When asked if they had any idea why they survived, they said they had been faithful to the requests of Our Lady of Fatima.

I believe Fr Arrupe, former head of the Jesuits was 1000 feet from point zero and survived…

This is quite incredible…but we know and believe in the special protection of not only our faith, but our whole being residing in the holy and immaculate Heart of Mary.
I am one of the people who find Marian apparitions very frightening, although I love the story of Our Lady of Guadalupe. But I would like a link to the info of the Host turning red. Was it reported anywhere? Otherwise it is just an urban legend, if you know what I mean.
 
Oh I don’t want it as my signature. I just to save it because it’s a beautiful picture

I was trying to be funny but clearly that failed. 😛
Then by all means, feel free! Just don’t print it out and pass it around, etc. You know. Copyright laws and such although I have seen it on an order of mass booklet. 😛
 
Personally I think it’d be nice if the Catholic Church came out with an official statement like: “We recognize and uphold the veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary, she is the best example of human devotion and obedience to God, and is rightfully Queen of Heaven. However, the Church also stresses that Mary was put to this great level soley and entirely via the power of God, not through her own, being a mere human. While we venerate the Blessed Virgin, the distance between her and the most Holy Trinity is infinite, and that can never be forgotten.”

.
Read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn, Ph.D., former Presbyterian minister and convert to the Catholic Church.

The distance between Mary and the Trinity is infinitesimal. She is the Daughter of God the Father, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and Mother of God the Son. And she now resides in heaven with the Trinity.

God is not distant from anyone who desires to be close to Him.
 
Read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn, Ph.D., former Presbyterian minister and convert to the Catholic Church.

The distance between Mary and the Trinity is infinitesimal. She is the Daughter of God the Father, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and Mother of God the Son. And she now resides in heaven with the Trinity.

God is not distant from anyone who desires to be close to Him.
I certainly hope that’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. The very fact that the Theotokos is not consubstantial with the Trinity should mean that there is still an uncrossable barrier (not something infinitesimal, but something of real substance) which exists between her and God (and between God and all of creation). The Theotokos, as blessed as she might be, is not exempt from the limitation of being created rather than uncreated and teachings like that risk blurring the line.
 
I certainly hope that’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. The very fact that the Theotokos is not consubstantial with the Trinity should mean that there is still an uncrossable barrier (not something infinitesimal, but something of real substance) which exists between her and God (and between God and all of creation). The Theotokos, as blessed as she might be, is not exempt from the limitation of being created rather than uncreated and teachings like that risk blurring the line.
I agree. The distance between something finite and something infinite is always an infinite number.

I don’t think it is the degree of Marian devotion that is the issue at all - I think it is the quality of it that can be off-base.
 
Read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn, Ph.D., former Presbyterian minister and convert to the Catholic Church.

The distance between Mary and the Trinity is infinitesimal. She is the Daughter of God the Father, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and Mother of God the Son. And she now resides in heaven with the Trinity.

God is not distant from anyone who desires to be close to Him.
So God is not infinitely superior to Mary?
 
Caravadossi wroteI certainly hope that’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. The very fact that the Theotokos is not consubstantial with the Trinity should mean that there is still an uncrossable barrier (not something infinitesimal, but something of real substance) which exists between her and God (and between God and all of creation). The Theotokos, as blessed as she might be, is not exempt from the limitation of being created rather than uncreated and teachings like that risk blurring the line.
Golly geeee. I’m not suggesting that Mary is comparable to God. Of course, she is a creature. But she is the highest creature that ever lived on earth. She is closer to God than any other creature, being the Mother of God the Son, second person of the Blessed Trinity. Now, I would say that’s close, sharing her DNA with His human nature! He is flesh of her flesh, bone of her bone, DNA of her DNA. Having God in her womb for nine months, nursing at her breast as a baby, kissing His Holy Face, being responsible for His care as His mother, is as close as a creature gets to the Trinity.

All of Mary’s titles are to emphasize Who Jesus Is – God Himself. Therefore, she is the Mother of God.

She is not the mother of the Divine Nature of Jesus the Chirst, but of His Human Nature. She is a human being – but closer to the Trinity than any other.

Saying that she is infinitesimally close to the Trinity does not logically imply that she is divine in any measure. Infinitesimal means an exceedingly small amount**; **it implies no more than that. Unless one wishes to twist the meaning.

Jim Dandy
 
Golly geeee. I’m not suggesting that Mary is comparable to God. Of course, she is a creature. But she is the highest creature that ever lived on earth. She is closer to God than any other creature, being the Mother of God the Son, second person of the Blessed Trinity. Now, I would say that’s close, sharing her DNA with His human nature! He is flesh of her flesh, bone of her bone, DNA of her DNA. Having God in her womb for nine months, nursing at her breast as a baby, kissing His Holy Face, being responsible for His care as His mother, is as close as a creature gets to the Trinity.

All of Mary’s titles are to emphasize Who Jesus Is – God Himself. Therefore, she is the Mother of God.

She is not the mother of the Divine Nature of Jesus the Chirst, but of His Human Nature. She is a human being – but closer to the Trinity than any other.

Saying that she is infinitesimally close to the Trinity does not logically imply that she is divine in any measure. Infinitesimal means an exceedingly small amount**; **it implies no more than that. Unless one wishes to twist the meaning.

Jim Dandy
Wow, I couldn’t have said it better myself. 👍 :clapping:
 
I agree also, here is an area which the past 120-years have escalated in many ways from Pope Leo XIII on. Though the Catholic Church has venerated Our Lady as no other church has, its also worthy to note the Church is Christ centered. In other words to raise the BVM and in essense lower God is in error.

Mary may well have been chosen by God in this period of time. Yet its also correct that She is “interceeding” on behalf of God through the Holy Spirit. Such would be the case with all the apparitions. Should the Lord chose to raise the understanding of the Immaculate Heart of Mary it would still be through Him the Lord.

The reality in our time period with the escalation of the presence of Our Lady I see as Biblical prophecy being completed. Of course there are many opinions.

Obviously there are many “theorys” in regards to Mary including the independent female atheist theory which states Mary is only raised in status through time to suppress independent woman in real time though the centurys. A falacy arrived at only in Mans mind not in reality. Is its true? Its certainly leads way to an interesting debate. 🤷

The aspect which alarms me with Marion Apparitions is Pontevedra which Christ appears to the Seer of Fatima. Not once but twice.

Myself accepting the idea of the BVM and the intercession of the BVM wasn’t ever rejected. I opted to stay Christ Centered though and did. Time and thinking change and we understand differently as time moves foward as we experience life and death, or very real spiritual aspects of the suprenatural. I see and understand the BVM different today in Her effort to help mankind by intercession. Today I’m convinced its real and believe should one not believe the church in this regard it would be wise not to reject the teaching. In other words what one doesn’t “know”, is a very different stance than what one doesn’t “believe” then continues to deny without actually knowing. This is an area where its safe to be on the side of overabundance instead of opting for a definition which is lacking and may prove grave.

I do believe that St Louis de Montfort summed this up the best…Mary is a Blessing a Grace from God that not all recieve. So its also not uncommon for Catholics being Christ centered only. I see this to be accurate and true today and have since early Catholic School. I can assure you will see many more Catholics who don’t elevate to Marion Devotions. Nevertheless, all one has to do is speak to any Catholic Priest in regards to the Children of the Rosary to hear just how profound the belief is. Many priests believe they indeed are chosen through their submission, I wish I had recorded the conversations I had with Catholic Priests in this regard.

Where Mary stands in Gods Kingdom isn’t relevant. That She represents God is. Had He sent an Angel or another Prophet here on earth what difference would it make? You have the choice as always to listen to His Word. The consequence of not listening to God can be read in the OT with Israel and the Temple. Grave error which leads to destruction and He always sends someone when man has gone astray. The real question one needs to ask, has man gone astray and is the message of God? Of course when the CC states its Worthy of Belief then you have your answer.
 
So God is not infinitely superior to Mary?
Advisory: to learn Church teachings on Blessed Mary, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

**Do not take a blog post as Gospel truth - people make mistakes, misspeak, and some do not know about what they speak, but speak anyway. **

The Church teaches Blessed Mary is a creature with an infinite gap between her and the Creator. Blessed Mary is the first to say this - read her Magnificat in the Bible.

Perhaps the biggest problem with Protestants in general is they base their refutations of the Catholic Church on what they hear from Catholic friends and neighbors who sometimes get it wrong. It is especially the wrong statements by lay Catholics that are the ones to be quickly repeated by a Protestant to his or her Protestant friends, except they change the source of their information from "my unknowing, unchurch-going Catholic neighbor who has been poorly catechized " to “hey do you know what Catholics believe…they believe…”
 
The Woman of Genesis, the Woman at the wedding of Cana, the Woman clothed with the sun of Revelation is Blessed Mary. At the beginning of Salvation History, in the middle, and at the end, we find the Woman throughout all of our Salvation History. The role of Blessed Mary in Salvation History is the most important of any human being.

Many saints prophesied through the ages this role given to Blessed Mary by God would become more apparent in the latter days, and the fact that this has come true with her numerous apparitions of the last century and a half illustrates just where we are on the eschatological timeline. We should listen to her, and do all that she said at Fatima (which continues to this day) - praise God and make Him first in our lives, prayer especially the rosary, fast, confession, penance, receive Holy Eucharist, do good for our neighbors.

God bless you.
 
Read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn, Ph.D., former Presbyterian minister and convert to the Catholic Church.

The distance between Mary and the Trinity is infinitesimal. She is the Daughter of God the Father, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and Mother of God the Son. And she now resides in heaven with the Trinity.

God is not distant from anyone who desires to be close to Him.
God elevated and honored her, not man…
As the Protestant Reformation attempted to rid themselves of everything Catholic, they robbed the faithful of this sacred mystery. It is sad. The more I pray the Rosary, the closer I feel to Our Lord. The more I honor the mother, the more I see and comprehend and are united in worship with her towards the Son.
“All generations shall call you blessed.”
An Archangel greeted her thus: “Hail Mary full of Grace blessed art thou among women, and Blessed is the fruit of thy womb…”
10 commandments: “Thou shalt honor thy Father and Mother.”
Our Lord honors and loves his mother, shouldn’t we do the same?
I am Catholic and I am no longer afraid to be Marian. It is part of my heritage.
I am so glad she said “be it done to me according to Thy will…”
 
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