F
FabiusMaximus
Guest
I didn’t twist anything. Because clearly I’m not the only one in the thread that was uncomfortable with what you said, before your clarification.
- Status
F
FabiusMaximus
Guest
That’s reassuring.
T
Telstar
Guest
I think this part of the Catechism from the Vatican website might be helpful.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
continued…
T
Telstar
Guest
continued…
I believe God is trying to bring us back to the true knowledge of the spiritual world so that we will not be led astray by looking for those things in those wrong places, to satisfy our natural curiosity about them. The devil is all too willing to try to fool us by playing spiritual tricks on us. IMHO, We should be much more worried about people reporting belief in UFOs, and speculating life on other planets, than we should ever be about someone that reports seeing the Mother of Jesus, who has come to us asking us to pray to God more than we already do.
Because of her role in the Incarnation, and her continuing role of leading all souls to her Divine Son, God has sent her to us in many ways over the past 2000 years. As someone already stated, due to the state of the whole world at this particular point in time, He has sent her in a much more public way. Most likely, the fact that modern man has become so focused on the physical world, he has moved further and further away from the spiritual and supernatural part of humanity. While there seems to be a lot of people that are still searching for that supernatural connection, they tend to look for it in all the wrong places.
I believe God is trying to bring us back to the true knowledge of the spiritual world so that we will not be led astray by looking for those things in those wrong places, to satisfy our natural curiosity about them. The devil is all too willing to try to fool us by playing spiritual tricks on us. IMHO, We should be much more worried about people reporting belief in UFOs, and speculating life on other planets, than we should ever be about someone that reports seeing the Mother of Jesus, who has come to us asking us to pray to God more than we already do.
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
I don’t feel that I twisted the meaning of infinitesimal at all. An infinitesimal value is one which is so small that it is virtually indistinguishable from zero. Surely, she is elevated above the rest of creation, but to try to close the gap between her and God and make it just a tiny, virtually indistinguishable barrier is a theological blunder with the implication that the Glory afforded to the Uncreated Triune God is somehow just a tiny degree above the glory of the created, which we all as Christians should know is not the case.
I have no problem in saying that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the highest being within all of God’s creation, but I do feel discomforted by this strange trend towards minimalizing the difference between the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is created, and God, Who is uncreated. Reducing the infinite difference between the Creator and the created into being something “exceedingly small” is, in my opinion, a grave error.
C
CatholicFireman
Guest
I honor Mary, she intercedes for me like the Communion of Saints, she is the Mother of my Lord and Savior and has a special place in my heart because of that fact. She was assumed into Heaven, body and soul…another reason she is special.
This is how I see her. Is she equal to God? Of course not! But…she knows The Boss if you know what I mean.
This is how I see her. Is she equal to God? Of course not! But…she knows The Boss if you know what I mean.
J
JesusforMadrid
Guest
There are three things that cause me and many other potential converts to Roman Catholicism much discomfort: Mariolatry, Mariolatry and Mariolatry.
After the Great Schism, the Roman Church chose to dogmatise many pious doctrines about Mary such as the Immaculate Conception, forcing any convert to also accept such doctrines in order to be in communion with Rome.
The Eastern churches have many of the same Marian doctrines, but do not elevate them to dogma (at least in the Orthodox church).
Even if I could understand the Marian dogma, I feel very uncomfortable with how Marian devotion is expressed by the Roman Catholic faithful. In this thread, various posters have writtten about the “power” of Mary, how she is “infinitesimally” close to the Triniity, and how we go to Jesus through Mary. The Bible and the Early Church Fathers didn’t speak this way. The end result seems to be an excessive focus on Mary to the detriment of Jesus. Again, I don’t see a similar excessive focus on Mary in Eastern Christianity, which is one of the reasons why I feel more comfortable with Orthodoxy currently.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I hope people can access this…I studied Mexico, its history and Our Lady of Guadalupe, besides other information regarding the tilma…the writer here refers to some discoveries regarding the image as well…
www.markmallett.com/blog/2011/07/a-woman-and-a-dragon/#more-6468
It is another example as to why Catholics see Mary as the woman with the 12 stars in Book of Revelation…the great sign that appeared in the sky…
www.markmallett.com/blog/2011/07/a-woman-and-a-dragon/#more-6468
It is another example as to why Catholics see Mary as the woman with the 12 stars in Book of Revelation…the great sign that appeared in the sky…
Q
QueenofPeace23
Guest
In actuality, almost all major approved apparitions have many people who were well aware of being deceived by the devil. This includes the people involved with the apparitions and their families, as well as church authorities of many types. It’s one of the key factors looked at in reviewing the apparitions.
Those who don’t believe in apparitions in my opinion really don’t believe in the power and authority of God, or they have been brainwashed by errant preachers.
Many Protestants and others would like to minimize Mary, put her in a box over in a corner. Yet that is not even slightly near what God the Father did (does) as we see in the Word of God. No one, and that means NO ONE in the history of mankind has conceived a child by being overshadowed by the Spirit of God, let alone the Son of God. The Angel when he came to Mary did not say, Mary, you’re going to bear the Son of God, so get ready. What he DID say is “Hail full of grace”, and when Mary asked how this could be done (since NO ONE HAD EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING and under Jewish law she could be stoned to death) - he told her, and her great Amen made possible the salvation of all of us. So you can minimize her role both then and now, but IMO you are in an extremely weak position.
Now, the Blessed Virgin Mary ushered in salvation through Jesus to us. The Angel Gabriel told her to go and see her cousin Elizabeth who was in fact with child, for nothing is impossible with God. So, she does as the Angel says. And when Elizabeth sees Mary coming - does she say, “hello Mary, how nice to see you”? Not quite, Elizabeth FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT (Note this is the first mention of the Holy Spirit long before Pentecost etc.)… filled with the Holy Spirit cries out “how is it that the mother of my Lord should come to me”? Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and is carrying Jesus from the Immaculate Conception. Jesus of course is one with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, and it’s interesting there is a reference to being “filled” with the Holy Spirit in their meeting. Anyone who reads this passage and Mary’s response in the Magnificat, knows full well that Mary would only praise the Lord and humble herself - and guess what, this is still true today but who knows how glorious that relationship is in Heaven.
We know that Mary was with the Apostles at Pentecost and chances are that she was leading them as well as she was already familiar with this Holy Spirit. Items in tradition imply that the Apostles looked to Mary for guidance.
Jesus told the Apostles that when he went to the Father, “even greater things” they would do, and that he would be with them until the end of days. It’s not hard to believe that God would send someone to warn and lead mankind (Mary has said that God the Father has allowed her to do this - one would imply that she asked and pleased as she has also referred to as God and Jesus were ready to strike with their mighty Hand).
To doubt that God could choose to usher in the final days under the care of Mary, is to doubt Mary’s role in salvation. The times she has come has almost always it has been said that she has been allowed to help turn mankind away from ever-multiplying sin. She mentioned the fashions God was greatly dissatisfied with in Fatima as being grievous, and that most people go to Hell for sins of the flesh. She comes and asks to pray, pray, pray, and sacrifice.
IF MARY USHERED IN SALVATION AND WAS TRUSTED WITH OUR SALVATION IN A MIRACULOUS WAY, HOW CAN WE SAY THAT SHE WOULD NOT BE INVOLVED WITH USHERING IN THE FINAL DAYS (HOWEVER LONG THAT MAY BE AS THE DAYS SINCE JESUS ARE TECHNICALLY THE FINAL DAYS), or that she would be allowed to come and help her children in these great days of peril. Mary always has been and will continue to be at the forefront of Salvation, so we, filled with the Holy Spirit, should say, “How is it that the mother of our Lord should come to us, bearing Christ!”
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Non-Catholics do not realize how much the Church plays the devil’s advocate on Marian apparitions.
John Paul II himself admitted that he didn’t pay much attention to the message of Fatima…we all heard the Holy Father would suffer much…and the third secret was only for the Pope…
JPII didn’t listen to the messages until he himself was shot on May 13, the date of the first apparition, and he was miraculously spared. Also, I was reading this week’s “Newsweek” about the growth of prostitution and its link with pornography, and how so many men are reading pornography, and buying women for sex. The human trafficking in our country is here.
Mary at Fatima said that more people go to hell because of sins of the flesh more than any other sin.
I would people not pay so much attention now to the Fatima message but look at the events that are happening now around us in regards to the violation of the sixth commandment. And we are seeing Pope Paul VI’s prediction on the prolific use of ‘the pill’ and its impact on society very much today in the forefront of society.
I think we need to spend time bringing Christian values to men and women in our society, because so many are harmed by sexual exploitation. When ai society becomes obsessed with sex, it has lost its faith in God…Cardinal Manning, England.
Mary, Most Pure, pray for us!
John Paul II himself admitted that he didn’t pay much attention to the message of Fatima…we all heard the Holy Father would suffer much…and the third secret was only for the Pope…
JPII didn’t listen to the messages until he himself was shot on May 13, the date of the first apparition, and he was miraculously spared. Also, I was reading this week’s “Newsweek” about the growth of prostitution and its link with pornography, and how so many men are reading pornography, and buying women for sex. The human trafficking in our country is here.
Mary at Fatima said that more people go to hell because of sins of the flesh more than any other sin.
I would people not pay so much attention now to the Fatima message but look at the events that are happening now around us in regards to the violation of the sixth commandment. And we are seeing Pope Paul VI’s prediction on the prolific use of ‘the pill’ and its impact on society very much today in the forefront of society.
I think we need to spend time bringing Christian values to men and women in our society, because so many are harmed by sexual exploitation. When ai society becomes obsessed with sex, it has lost its faith in God…Cardinal Manning, England.
Mary, Most Pure, pray for us!
G
Genovefa
Guest
I believe that Lourdes is approved by the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal church also approves several other Marian apparitions, I believe.
G
GKC
Guest
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
By large there seems to be an oversimplified understanding of the distinction usually made between “public revelation” and “private revelation”.
The concepts are without doubt valid in themselves, but the terms are somewhat restrictive and awkward and tend therefore to lead to an incomplete understanding of the complexity of the subject matter that falls under these terms with Fatima.
What is commonly meant by the term “public revelation” in clear enough in so far as it has to be well explicated by theologians. The term denotes the official body of sacred doctrine revealed by God to the Church for our Salvation and set forth by the magisterium of the church as Divinely revealed and thus to be believed with the assent of Divine and Catholic Faith.
“Private Revelation” on the other hand, in a general sense customarily refers to persons that are not strickly necessary for salvation and do not pertain to the Deposit of Faith and therefore are accordingly to be evaluated and believed on human faith if they are found to be “worthy of belief”
Such rprivate revelations are not usually binding on the faithful since salvation does not usually depend on them.
However, the fact that they are not to be believed with the assent of Divine and Catholic faith does not necessarily mean that they are always and everywhere completely optional for the individual conscience to accept or reject.
St Alphonsus Liguori explained that when a person receives a revelation from God that person in bound to believe and obey. The belief is not an assent of faith, but the obligation to believe would be a moral obligation binding that person. When God speaks we have the moral obligation to listen, believe and obey even it the revelation does not pertain to the Deposit of Faith.
The message of Fatima is to the entire Human Race. It is not merely a private relelation in the sense that it is not something that concerns only the recipients of the message or a restricted number of people.
It is not “public” in the theological sense in which the term is customarily used to denote truth that pertains to “the Depost of Faith”.
Fatima it is “not” a simple private revelation either, in the sense it is not consisting of matters of “secondary importance” and being directed to only a “restricted number of persons”.
BIshop Rudolf Graber of Germany, and theologian Father Joseph de Sainte Marie referred to Fatima as a “PUBLIC PROPHETIC REVELATION” Since it is intended to be heard “by the entire HUMAN RACE”.
As John Paul II stated…Our Lady promised to perform a miracle so that ALL people would believe.
On May 2011 Pope Benedict sent two delegates to Russia to speak to Patriach Kirill on the Consecration. Pope Benedict XVI is also convinved this consecration needs to be done which came as a surprize at the “Consecration Now Conference” this past May 2011
For the Lord does nothing without revealing His secret to His servants. [Amos 3:7]
In the past, God spoke to His people through the prophets. He then spoke through the messiah HIs Son. Jesus Christ. During our time Christ speaks to us mostly through His Mother, the Virgin Mary, through many apparitions.
The World and Christianity are in a terrible crisis. God is giving us the way to bring things to normality through Our Lady of Fatima. The Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Who is our Mediatrix.
St Bernardine teachs…Mary gives to whom She wills, the way She wills, and as much as She wills, of the Graces of the Eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
St Louis de Montfort…God has entrusted Mary with the keeping , the administration and the distribution of ALL His Graces, so that all His Graces and Gifts pass through Her hands. She is therefore the Mother of Grace “mater de gratia” as the liturgy proclaims. Mary gave “being and life” to the Author of all Grace and that is why She is called the Mother of Grace. God the Father has given all Graces to Mary by giving Her His Son…and in Him God has given His will to Mary.
Lumin Gentium…it is set forth that the Mother of Jesus “Gave to the World the LIFE that renews all things. Rightly…the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God but freely cooperating in the work of mans Salvation.”
Our Lady speaks to the Seer 1952
“Make it known to the Holy Father that I am still awaiting the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart. Without this Consecration Russia will NOT convert, nor will there be World Peace”
May 13th 2011 there remained 6-years for the instructions to be completed which Mary simply explained. As we see with Our Ladys Vision in 1952, this is a period given for man to act. When Our Lady stated “I AM STILL WAITING” this ought to give one a clue of just how bad life could get, and we see this escalation each and every year.
Many Bishops have taken up the cause of Fatima and the Consecration of Russia. Those who spoke at the Vatican in May 9-13th 2011, were Bishop Paul Khoari, BIshop Juan Mata Guevara, Bishop Fortunatus Lukanima, and also Cardinal Renato Martino among many Catholic Priests.
Obviously there is an effort to accomplish this in the near future. Prayer is needed. People often ask, What can I alone do? Pray the Rosary…it is the weapon which will defeat satan. There is no other way.
God did not change His mind, the instruction still stands. It didnt go away with time as I see many wish it would. Its not spiritual bartering, God didn’t ask for World Consecration. What he asked for couldn’t be more simple. Daily Rosary Recitation, First 5-Saturdays of Reparation confession/communion and the Consecration of Russia in PUBLIC by the Pope and the Bishops. Russia has “never” been named in a consecration. And its not a bargaining chip…Its Gods Word which if not obeyed as we see in the OT is a Grave Error.
The concepts are without doubt valid in themselves, but the terms are somewhat restrictive and awkward and tend therefore to lead to an incomplete understanding of the complexity of the subject matter that falls under these terms with Fatima.
What is commonly meant by the term “public revelation” in clear enough in so far as it has to be well explicated by theologians. The term denotes the official body of sacred doctrine revealed by God to the Church for our Salvation and set forth by the magisterium of the church as Divinely revealed and thus to be believed with the assent of Divine and Catholic Faith.
“Private Revelation” on the other hand, in a general sense customarily refers to persons that are not strickly necessary for salvation and do not pertain to the Deposit of Faith and therefore are accordingly to be evaluated and believed on human faith if they are found to be “worthy of belief”
Such rprivate revelations are not usually binding on the faithful since salvation does not usually depend on them.
However, the fact that they are not to be believed with the assent of Divine and Catholic faith does not necessarily mean that they are always and everywhere completely optional for the individual conscience to accept or reject.
St Alphonsus Liguori explained that when a person receives a revelation from God that person in bound to believe and obey. The belief is not an assent of faith, but the obligation to believe would be a moral obligation binding that person. When God speaks we have the moral obligation to listen, believe and obey even it the revelation does not pertain to the Deposit of Faith.
The message of Fatima is to the entire Human Race. It is not merely a private relelation in the sense that it is not something that concerns only the recipients of the message or a restricted number of people.
It is not “public” in the theological sense in which the term is customarily used to denote truth that pertains to “the Depost of Faith”.
Fatima it is “not” a simple private revelation either, in the sense it is not consisting of matters of “secondary importance” and being directed to only a “restricted number of persons”.
BIshop Rudolf Graber of Germany, and theologian Father Joseph de Sainte Marie referred to Fatima as a “PUBLIC PROPHETIC REVELATION” Since it is intended to be heard “by the entire HUMAN RACE”.
As John Paul II stated…Our Lady promised to perform a miracle so that ALL people would believe.
On May 2011 Pope Benedict sent two delegates to Russia to speak to Patriach Kirill on the Consecration. Pope Benedict XVI is also convinved this consecration needs to be done which came as a surprize at the “Consecration Now Conference” this past May 2011
For the Lord does nothing without revealing His secret to His servants. [Amos 3:7]
In the past, God spoke to His people through the prophets. He then spoke through the messiah HIs Son. Jesus Christ. During our time Christ speaks to us mostly through His Mother, the Virgin Mary, through many apparitions.
The World and Christianity are in a terrible crisis. God is giving us the way to bring things to normality through Our Lady of Fatima. The Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Who is our Mediatrix.
St Bernardine teachs…Mary gives to whom She wills, the way She wills, and as much as She wills, of the Graces of the Eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
St Louis de Montfort…God has entrusted Mary with the keeping , the administration and the distribution of ALL His Graces, so that all His Graces and Gifts pass through Her hands. She is therefore the Mother of Grace “mater de gratia” as the liturgy proclaims. Mary gave “being and life” to the Author of all Grace and that is why She is called the Mother of Grace. God the Father has given all Graces to Mary by giving Her His Son…and in Him God has given His will to Mary.
Lumin Gentium…it is set forth that the Mother of Jesus “Gave to the World the LIFE that renews all things. Rightly…the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God but freely cooperating in the work of mans Salvation.”
Our Lady speaks to the Seer 1952
“Make it known to the Holy Father that I am still awaiting the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart. Without this Consecration Russia will NOT convert, nor will there be World Peace”
May 13th 2011 there remained 6-years for the instructions to be completed which Mary simply explained. As we see with Our Ladys Vision in 1952, this is a period given for man to act. When Our Lady stated “I AM STILL WAITING” this ought to give one a clue of just how bad life could get, and we see this escalation each and every year.
Many Bishops have taken up the cause of Fatima and the Consecration of Russia. Those who spoke at the Vatican in May 9-13th 2011, were Bishop Paul Khoari, BIshop Juan Mata Guevara, Bishop Fortunatus Lukanima, and also Cardinal Renato Martino among many Catholic Priests.
Obviously there is an effort to accomplish this in the near future. Prayer is needed. People often ask, What can I alone do? Pray the Rosary…it is the weapon which will defeat satan. There is no other way.
God did not change His mind, the instruction still stands. It didnt go away with time as I see many wish it would. Its not spiritual bartering, God didn’t ask for World Consecration. What he asked for couldn’t be more simple. Daily Rosary Recitation, First 5-Saturdays of Reparation confession/communion and the Consecration of Russia in PUBLIC by the Pope and the Bishops. Russia has “never” been named in a consecration. And its not a bargaining chip…Its Gods Word which if not obeyed as we see in the OT is a Grave Error.
G
Genovefa
Guest
Sorry I wasn’t more specific. I didn’t mean to mislead anyone.
However, it also states that in 2008 the Archbishop of Canterbury preached at shrine in Lourdes. And there are two Episcoplian shrines dedicated to Our Lady of Walsingham.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Have you ever visited any of these Church approved apparitional sites? To date almost every skeptic including protestants left these sites healed and sometimes with a mission from heaven and converted to Catholicism, who still walk the earth today.Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.
I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.
I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.
You do know that science scrutinized the tilma of Juan Diego and many of these athiests converted from their investigations, which still has the apparition of the Virgin Mary divinely painted on cactus fibers existing now for the past 500 years! Heck my work jeans could never last a year, let alone a 16th century cloth made of cactus fibers.
You can be assured if you visit any of these sites, you will find signs and wonders followed by miracles.
G
GKC
Guest
So I see. Not previously aware of the Lourdes bit, but Walsingham, I’m familiar with. Our Mary Shrine, in the parish, is of OL of Walsingham (our assistant priest has a particular devotion to Her). I’m just a little surprised that the Anglican Communion is, as an entity, capable of approving anything. Not sure how that works, since the 38 constituent jurisdictions in the Communion are all independent and self-governing. Maybe it was a unanimous vote.
New factoid noted.
GKC
G
Genovefa
Guest
I don’t think there is any sort of approval process like in the Catholic church. And I agree it does seem to be a crazy mess with all the groups of Anglicans and countries. I don’t understand myself.
It seems that individual priests or churches are involved. Perhaps they rely on the Catholic church to do the research, since these are already approved apparitions. I don’t know if they are officially approved by a large group of Anglicans. However, the Archbishop of Canterbury’s preaching at the Lourdes site seems to indicate a sort of acceptance.
When it comes to issues of Marian devotion, the Episcopal church’s stance typically is “All May, None Must, Some Should”. In other words, it is not necessary for salvation, but it is okay and beneficial for some people. At least that is what I’ve been told and read.
Also, I could be wrong, but I believe there is some sort of Anglican and/or Episcopalian church in Lourdes. I remember hearing that a Episcopalian and/or Anglican priest went to Lourdes and had a spiritual experience there that led to this. But I can’t find any information.
G
GKC
Guest
There is certainly an Anglican Shrine at Walsingham.
The phrase “All May, Some Should, None Must” (as it is usually expressed) is normally applied to the concept of auricular confession in Anglicanism. While it might be applied to other things non *de fide * (and finding something in Anglicanism that is actually de fide would take some doing), it is not normally so used. Marian issues would fall under the concept of personal piety, generally.
GKC
Anglicanus-Catholicus
Q
QueenofPeace23
Guest
I would say that brainwashed is a pretty good term, and many non-Catholics who convert have said they were afraid to even enter a Catholic Church because what they have had drilled into their heads by their preacher, about the CC being false, from the devil, worshiping idols etc. This happens all the time and it is well known.
I recall one story where a man who was Baptist, I believe, wanted to go in and visit a Catholic church but was afraid as he was told most of the things about being evil etc. When he finally went in, he was drawn to the tabernacle and felt tremendous power flowing, and he asked in amazement what it was. He ultimately converted but he talked of how all of the things he was told kept him away. Tim Staples says in his conversion story that at the very end, when his perfect, Baptist , singer fiance left him because she knew he was becoming Catholic, among other things he was experiencing, and at the depths of this struggle, he thought of asking Mary’s help, even though he would never do that based upon his past and his background - and he was flooded with peace.
Whether you call it brainwash or whatever, prior disposition to the Church based upon false, misinformed teaching is definitely a factor and barrier for many non-Catholic coming to the Church.
As far as: “The Church’s teaching is that belief or non-belief in apparitions is not a doctrine and Catholics are free to believe or disbelieve in approved apparitions which NEVER rise above the level of been private revelation.” - I agree that’s fully true. But its’ also a bit of a paradox that if an apparition is approved and for the sake of an argument, true, and Mary comes asking us to do certain things, how do you dismiss that? She generally doesn’t say some of you should do this, but some can ignore.
It kind of reminds me of a time long ago when my roommate, who was Catholic but was struggling with the Mary issue, and who hammered me relentlessly about it - I went to confession to a good Irish priest. I spoke of my frustration with my roommate and the Marian issue. He said something like “Well, you know, the Church doesn’t require as a matter of faith belief in Mary and all that it entails…have patience and ask the Blessed Virgin to intercede for your roommate.” Later he bacame very devoted to Our Lady and the saints as well.
Also, one other time, this roommate and I helped a homeless man, brought him in and let him stay a bit clean up etc, threw his clothes out and gave him new. Eventually we found him all cleaned up and hooked up with some “Bible -believer’s”. I was glad he looked so good. I saw him one day and gave him a little money - then he said a few things about Catholic teaching -" hey do you guys think Mary is Queen of Heaven?" My first thought was, give me my dollar back (just jokingly in my head). I answered him an said, "No I don’t think Mary is Queen of Heaven. I know she is!..Queen of Heaven and Earth. We remained friends but just goes to show you, the old anti-Mary thing can pop up anywhere.
I recall one story where a man who was Baptist, I believe, wanted to go in and visit a Catholic church but was afraid as he was told most of the things about being evil etc. When he finally went in, he was drawn to the tabernacle and felt tremendous power flowing, and he asked in amazement what it was. He ultimately converted but he talked of how all of the things he was told kept him away. Tim Staples says in his conversion story that at the very end, when his perfect, Baptist , singer fiance left him because she knew he was becoming Catholic, among other things he was experiencing, and at the depths of this struggle, he thought of asking Mary’s help, even though he would never do that based upon his past and his background - and he was flooded with peace.
Whether you call it brainwash or whatever, prior disposition to the Church based upon false, misinformed teaching is definitely a factor and barrier for many non-Catholic coming to the Church.
As far as: “The Church’s teaching is that belief or non-belief in apparitions is not a doctrine and Catholics are free to believe or disbelieve in approved apparitions which NEVER rise above the level of been private revelation.” - I agree that’s fully true. But its’ also a bit of a paradox that if an apparition is approved and for the sake of an argument, true, and Mary comes asking us to do certain things, how do you dismiss that? She generally doesn’t say some of you should do this, but some can ignore.
It kind of reminds me of a time long ago when my roommate, who was Catholic but was struggling with the Mary issue, and who hammered me relentlessly about it - I went to confession to a good Irish priest. I spoke of my frustration with my roommate and the Marian issue. He said something like “Well, you know, the Church doesn’t require as a matter of faith belief in Mary and all that it entails…have patience and ask the Blessed Virgin to intercede for your roommate.” Later he bacame very devoted to Our Lady and the saints as well.
Also, one other time, this roommate and I helped a homeless man, brought him in and let him stay a bit clean up etc, threw his clothes out and gave him new. Eventually we found him all cleaned up and hooked up with some “Bible -believer’s”. I was glad he looked so good. I saw him one day and gave him a little money - then he said a few things about Catholic teaching -" hey do you guys think Mary is Queen of Heaven?" My first thought was, give me my dollar back (just jokingly in my head). I answered him an said, "No I don’t think Mary is Queen of Heaven. I know she is!..Queen of Heaven and Earth. We remained friends but just goes to show you, the old anti-Mary thing can pop up anywhere.
- Status