Thoughts on Pope Francis changing the “Our Father”

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People on this forum seem to have a very negative opinion of the Holy Father. I strongly admire Pope Benedict XVI, and I have always admired how he lead the Church. But I do not see Pope Francis as being much different. He has a different approach, which seems no less orthodox than that of his predecessor. He has not denied or changed Church doctrine except to develop it, and while some of his comments seem controversial, if you look at the context of them they are nothing to worry about.

So what? His Holiness changed the wording of the Our Father in Italian.
 
I know, but I do think that the general attitude when the Holy Father is mentioned always involves how he is ‘unorthodox’ or too ‘liberal’ etc when he simply has a different approach to more effectively evangelise.
 
This change has been already made in Korean in the 1990s.
“저희를 유혹에 빠지지 않게 하시고”
translated: “do not let us fall into temptation”
Therefore, people in Korea are thinking: “Wait, this is exactly same as our translation! Why is this a problem?”
I mean, this change has been made in other countries and I always wondered why this change wasn’t made in other languages.
 
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pulchraesamicamea said:
This change has been already made in Korean in the 1990s.
“저희를 유혹에 빠지지 않게 하시고”
translated: “do not let us fall into temptation”
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And the exact same change was implemented in French a little over two years ago (from “ne nous soumets pas à la tentation” to “ne nous laisse pas entrer en tentation”).

It didn’t happen because Pope Francis suddenly woke up one day and thought it would be a nice idea. It happened because the French conference of bishops approved, in 2013, a new liturgical translation of the Bible, which had been in the works for the past 17 years, and which introduced the change for theological and exegetical reasons (I’m pointing that out because when Pope Francis says things like what was quoted in the OP, it’s actually based on serious consideration made by a whole lot of highly qualified people).

On an ecumenical note, almost all non-Catholic denominations followed along, so that we could keep sharing a common text for the Lord’s Prayer.

(And, @pulchraesamicamea : 만나서 반갑습니다!)
 
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pulchraesamicamea said:
I mean, this change has been made in other countries and I always wondered why this change wasn’t made in other languages.
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I surmise that it’s mostly because these translations in European languages are very old: “do not lead us into temptation” has been such in English for at least 650 years, and Heaven knows how long the Italian translation has been the way it is.

People tend to get stuck in a comfort zone, “things are the way they are because that’s how they’ve always been”. Which is not necessarily a bad thing per se, but we often rely on the Church to challenge us, especially when we could be doing things (whether believing, speaking or living) in ways that are more faithful to Christ’s teachings.
 
Yeah…that’s why I was so confused when the English version was on the process of being changed, while it changed already years ago in other languages.

We also had a new liturgical translation of the Bible, which our immediate family came into contact after we converted. We like it better than the Protestant Korean version.

@OddBird 네, 만나서 반갑습니다. 주님의 축복이 항상 있기를 빕니다.
(Yes, it’s nice to meet you! May the Lord’s blessing be with you, always.)
 
poche said:
The only change was in the Italian translation. That doesn’t directly effect how we pray in English.
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  1. The Italian Bishops made the request some time ago. Where was the outrage then?
  2. Pope Francis, after due consideration, approved their request. He MADE NO CHANGES by himself. He simply allowed them.
  3. The Spanish Lord’s Prayer has read this way for decades. Where was, where is the outrage?
Some in the internet are taking cheap shots at the Holy Father. If they would shut up and pray half as much, the world would be a better place.
 
I understand. Another day the Pope will preach on the theme of “god is good.” and these same people will complain about the 'heretical pope."
 
I don’t think the English version has been changed in a long time. We still use “Thee” and “Thou” in the Lord’s payer.
 
Bithynian said:
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pulchraesamicamea:
I mean, this change has been made in other countries and I always wondered why this change wasn’t made in other languages.
Click to expand...
I surmise that it’s mostly because these translations in European languages are very old: “do not lead us into temptation” has been such in English for at least 650 years, and Heaven knows how long the Italian translation has been the way it is.

People tend to get stuck in a comfort zone, “things are the way they are because that’s how they’ve always been”. Which is not necessarily a bad thing per se, but we often rely on the Church to challenge us, especially when we could be doing things (whether believing, speaking or living) in ways that are more faithful to Christ’s teachings.
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In French we’d only been using “ne nous soumets pas à la tentation” (do not subject us to temptation) since 1966, so it’s not such a big deal to change it to “ne nous laisse pas entrer en tentation” (do not let us be tempted). Before 1966 we’d been praying “ne nous laissez pas succomber à la tentation” (do not let us give in to temptation) for centuries and I’m left wondering why we couldn’t just go back to that. And I would like a return to the second person plural rather than the more familiar second person singular when addressing God the Father.
 
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Yes, and a bit earlier than that in Europe (Advent 2017 in France, Easter 2018 for us Swiss folk, Catholic and non-Catholic alike ; I don’t know about Belgium).
 
Over the centuries, language changes and we need to look at our translations of the words of Jesus to ensure that the meaning has not changed. Our version of the Lord’s Prayer comes from Matthew’s Gospel. The Latin Vulgate says “et ne nos inducas in tentationem” - and lead us not into temptation - which is not a particularly good translation of the Koine Greek (blame Jerome!) It suggests that it is the Father who causes us to be tempted. While the Pope’s suggested change is a paraphrase, it is far closer to the Greek.

It is generally thought that Jesus gave his teaching in Aramaic, which is a Syriac dialect. Those Churches that use a Syriac liturgy quite possibly had a source even older than the Greek text. The Syriac version of the Lord’s Prayer is closer to the Pope’s suggestions.

However, don’t hold your breath. The Catholic Church is an institution that takes 100 years to make up its mind and 1,000 years to change it.
 
Digitnomy said:
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anrmenchaca47:
“God himself does not lead anyone into temptation, because He is a kind and omnipotent being and this action would be in contradiction with his nature.” - Pope Francis.
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I’m not entirely sure this squares with Exodus 9:12, where God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.
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I agree, and I rarely disagree with Francis.

The context for this is “as we forgive those who trespass against us.” I can assure you that being in the presence of someone who has trespassed against me is a time of great temptation for me. Not just to anger, but relapsing into sin (eg a drug dealer or a lover), etc. So if God leads me to forgive, God also leads me into temptation.

The alternate works almost as well, so I have no complaint. But I do object to saying God does not lead us into temptation. I almost want to say the opposite; God always leads us to places where we will be tempted, to convert the sinners who tempt us, to offer love to those who anger us, etc.
 
God did not tempt Pharoah, did He? God hardened more an already hardened Heart of Pharoah. God has never induced anybody to sin.
 
Leferdion said:
God did not tempt Pharoah, did He? God hardened more an already hardened Heart of Pharoah
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Not sure I see the distinction here. We all have hardened hearts to some extent, that we must strive to overcome with love for God and our fellow man.
 
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poche said:
I don’t think the English version has been changed in a long time. We still use “Thee” and “Thou” in the Lord’s payer.
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The English version is shared with Protestants and others, and is a source of unity. It will move far more slowly, if at all, to keep this strand of unity.
 
I haven’t had the chance to hear it lately. I learned one version, but then in the late 70s a priest corrected me and said that another version was the correct one.
 
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