Thoughts on Pornography

[StratusRose]

We all know that pornography degrades women, facilitates lust, breaks up marriages and so on and so on. Yesterday I was watching TLC and they were advertising a show about the founder of “Girls Gone Wild” and a “dream” house he was building right on the beach in Florida. The house boasts 14 bedrooms. On the commercial he seemed like a complete sleaze, and there were disproportionate women walking around and sitting by a pool sunbathing. As I was watching this, I instantly thought of the verse in the Bible that says something like 'It is easier for a camel to fit through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven." I felt sorry for this guy but at the end of the commercial I said outloud “YOU’RE GOING TO HELL!” I felt bad about saying it but it made me realize that pornography makes people rich off of degrading women. He thinks that his treasure is here on earth, with earthy desires. I was going to bring this up to my boyfriend who as one time owned one of those horrible tapes. (He destroyed it when he realized it was controlling him.) One thing he cannot stand is rich people hoarding money for themselves and neglecting those who are in real need. The fact that his money helped build this guy’s house would make him hate pornography even more.

It is amazing how a 30 second commercial could flood in so many thoughts. It doesn’t take much to get my brain going. Sorry this is so long. If you have other thoughts on pornography, please post. I’d love to hear what you have to say. (I hope this won’t be a dud thread. )

 

[jrabs]

ahhh my thoughts on porn are a plenty. I am a first hand victim of what happens when people get easily sucked into porn. My exhusband was a severe addict - eventully destroyed our marriage, lost his job, abandoned his children and disappeared.

The only thing he could do was live and breath porn. I imagine if he is not dead, he is still wrapped up in this life since he has been missing for 18 months now.

Porn is too readily available and too addicting. Big money in porn - and the soft porn stuff…oh man. It is entering all facets of our lives in subtle ways.

This sad man, the Father of “Girls Gone Wild”…well look what he represents to the world. Fast, easy and cheap exploitive money. The TV show highlighting his achievements does nothing but reinforce and encourage others to follow this path to fast cash.

God help us!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I normally don’t watch TV at all, but last year I watched a lot for several months, some on the comedy channel.

Those commercials for “girls gone wild” actually did appeal a tiny bit to me, but after seeing about 800 of the commercials, it finally sunk in that this is really nothing they are selling. What’s the big deal? These little girls are showing themselves. I found it more annoying than disgusting.

The other commercial I got so sick of that I finally quit watching (oh wait maybe I quit watching because the TV burned up when our house burned down – how quickly I forget) were those commercial for Bob, who had the right formula to please his wife. Enzyte or something I think. Gosh, those made me ill.

In case it makes you feel any better, here is the most recent photo of the TV I watched those particular commercials on:
http://siegman.com/fire/fire050329049.jpg

Now the next time you see one of those commercials, you can just use this photo and don’t have to break your own TV.

As far as the guy’s “dream house” I don’t see it any more or less moral than the multimillion dollar mansions that crooked corporate executives who literally robbed tens of millions of people out of their life savings, build in Florida so they can avoid losing their fortune in case they get convicted.

Also once when I was new to the work force, and saw people who cheated getting ahead while I wasn’t, I seriously considered whether I was the stupid one. Then I found some Proverbs that comforted me. I can’t find the exact one because I had a different version, but I think it was either verse 1 or 19:
Proverbs 24:

1  [1](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb24.htm#foot1) Be not emulous of evil men, and desire not to be with them; 2 For their hearts plot violence, and their lips speak of foul play.

17 Rejoice not when your enemy falls, and when he stumbles, let not your heart exult, 18 Lest the LORD see it, be displeased with you, and withdraw his wrath from your enemy. 19 Be not provoked with evildoers, nor envious of the wicked; 20 For the evil man has no future, the lamp of the wicked will be put out.

Alan

 

[felra]

StratusRose:

If you have other thoughts on pornography, please post. I’d love to hear what you have to say. (I hope this won’t be a dud thread. )

Your not wanting this thread to be a dud is what snagged me.

If anyone has any doubt if pornography is harmful to individuals and marriages, see these couple of articles in this link to Citizen Magazine (which is affiliated with Focus on the Family): family.org/cforum/fosi/pornography/harm/ .

 

[jrabs]

AlanFromWichita:

IWhat’s the big deal? These little girls are showing themselves.

Alan

I guess you’d find it to be a big deal if it was the catalyst to destroying your marriage or that of one of your children.

Additionally, it is just that little creeping effect and desensitizing effect it has on our society. For example…you just said, “what’s the big deal?”

Well, now we’ve seen snippets of neked women on TV - so what is the big deal? Bring on the next snippet of nudity because we apparantly can handle it. Now we are left with watching those dreadful “Bob” commercials you alluded to.

Why must my family be subjected to these little attacks.

 

[StratusRose]

jrabs:

I guess you’d find it to be a big deal if it was the catalyst to destroying your marriage or that of one of your children.

Additionally, it is just that little creeping effect and desensitizing effect it has on our society. For example…you just said, “what’s the big deal?”

Well, now we’ve seen snippets of neked women on TV - so what is the big deal? Bring on the next snippet of nudity because we apparantly can handle it. Now we are left with watching those dreadful “Bob” commercials you alluded to.

Why must my family be subjected to these little attacks.

I think what Alan was trying to say was that men get such a rise out of girls showing themselves and acting like idiots. I don’t think he was trying to convey that pornography itself is not a big deal. Am I right, Alan?

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

As a mature college educated adult and Navy veteran, I am worldly enough to say that I have been exposed to porn and acknowledge that it has no socially redeeming value whatsoever.

I am so convinced that pornography has no useful purpose on this planet that it is one of the only vices that I would like to see banned. I understand that if porn was made totally illegal, then that would drive up the value and demand for the garbage, but I am so offended by it that I cannot find any intellectual or scholarly justification for it.

While I would advocate the legalization of prostitution, pornography is simply too degrading to the human condition for any justification.

 

[jrabs]

Bobby A. Greene:

As a mature college educated adult and Navy veteran, I am worldly enough to say that I have been exposed to porn and acknowledge that it has no socially redeeming value whatsoever.

I am so convinced that pornography has no useful purpose on this planet that it is one of the only vices that I would like to see banned. I understand that if porn was made totally illegal, then that would drive up the value and demand for the garbage, but I am so offended by it that I cannot find any intellectual or scholarly justification for it.

While I would advocate the legalization of prostitution, pornography is simply too degrading to the human condition for any justification.

I can give a big to that post.

 

[felra]

Bobby A. Greene:

As a mature college educated adult and Navy veteran, I am worldly enough to say that I have been exposed to porn and acknowledge that it has no socially redeeming value whatsoever.

I am so convinced that pornography has no useful purpose on this planet that it is one of the only vices that I would like to see banned. I understand that if porn was made totally illegal, then that would drive up the value and demand for the garbage, but I am so offended by it that I cannot find any intellectual or scholarly justification for it.

While I would advocate the legalization of prostitution, pornography is simply too degrading to the human condition for any justification.

But you can find an intellectual and scholarly justification for pornography? Does this mean that “moral” does not fit in between your profile of “mature”, “educated” or “Navy veteran”? (the “wordly” part is self explanatory). If it does, there would appear to be an inconsistency in your moral platform.

 

[felra]

Originally Posted by Bobby A. Greene
While I would advocate the legalization of prostitution, pornography is simply too degrading to the human condition for any justification.

jrabs:

I can give a big to that post.

???

Did I miss something here?

 

[miguel]

Cultural pollution.

 

[miguel]

AlanFromWichita:

…Those commercials for “girls gone wild” actually did appeal a tiny bit to me, but after seeing about 800 of the commercials, it finally sunk in that this is really nothing they are selling…In case it makes you feel any better, here is the most recent photo of the TV I watched those particular commercials on:
http://siegman.com/fire/fire050329049.jpg

God making a point.

 

[cheddarsox]

I’m not sure I see how porn degrades women any more than it degrades men. I think it is equally degrading to all involved.

I don’t likeit, it gives me a tummy ache.

cheddar

 

[StratusRose]

cheddarsox:

I’m not sure I see how porn degrades women any more than it degrades men. I think it is equally degrading to all involved.

Very good point.

 

[wcknight]

felra:

But you can find an intellectual and scholarly justification for pornography? Does this mean that “moral” does not fit in between your profile of “mature”, “educated” or “Navy veteran”? (the “wordly” part is self explanatory). If it does, there would appear to be an inconsistency in your moral platform.

I think he is saying he can find a justifcation for prostitution but NOT pornography.

I can’t see a justification for either, BUT you can not legislate morality. When we do this, we build in a huge profit motive and invite crime and even more outrageous behavior. We see this in illegal drugs and gambling, and we should have learned the lesson from prohibition.

Regulate it and tax it, and use the funds to educate folks. The mistake that everyone makes is to equate making something legal with acceptance and condoning it. Some things can’t be legalized or should not have been legalized… murder, abortion, theft, and maybe hard core drugs. but sex, porn, smoking, alchohol, gambling and maybe soft drugs like pot should be legal but maybe controlled or restricted.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

StratusRose:

I think what Alan was trying to say was that men get such a rise out of girls showing themselves and acting like idiots. I don’t think he was trying to convey that pornography itself is not a big deal. Am I right, Alan?

Yes.

They don’t even look like sex objects any more. Not in the least do they appeal to me. They just look like children who are confused, but found a way to make a buck.

Alan

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

wcknight:

I can’t see a justification for either, BUT you can not legislate morality.

You say this, but then, state,

Some things can’t be legalized or should not have been legalized… murder, abortion, theft, and maybe hard core drugs.

These are all legislated on moral grounds. The thing is, we can’t legislate anything but morality. When someone is arrested and you tell him “that was wrong,” you do not mean “that was incorrect of you,” but rather, “that was morally wrong.”

etc…

 

[miguel]

wcknight:

…BUT you can not legislate morality…

The truth is every law on the books is rooted in some moral principle. Are not murder, abortion, theft, etc., violations of morality? Sorry if I come across too strong here. But this cliche really makes me cringe.

wcknight:

…When we do this, we build in a huge profit motive and invite crime and even more outrageous behavior. We see this in illegal drugs and gambling, and we should have learned the lesson from prohibition.

Regulate it and tax it, and use the funds to educate folks. The mistake that everyone makes is to equate making something legal with acceptance and condoning it. Some things can’t be legalized or should not have been legalized… murder, abortion, theft, and maybe hard core drugs. but sex, porn, smoking, alchohol, gambling and maybe soft drugs like pot should be legal but maybe controlled or restricted.

There is nothing immoral in the moderate consumption of alcohol. Jesus turned water into wine. That was the mistake of Prohibition. Big government tried to eliminate it entirely and opened the door to organized crime. Personally, I think local communities should be able to decide for themselves how they want to restrict/regulate these vices. It is a mistake to allow the Supreme Court to impose its will in these areas. They just basically removed all restrictions on pornography (calling it free speech where it is clearly not the kind of speech the framers intended to promote). And our culture has become terribly polluted as a result.

 

[Daniel_Kane]

Making immoral acts legal legitimizes the immoral act to the public.We are a society that legitimizes much immorality and we are suffering the consequences.

Pornography is a grave, grave sin.

Unlike prohibition which made illegal a substance that has for centuries enjoyed broadly accepted religious and cultural acceptance. Pornography serves no public good and exploits women. It is an illusion and a perversion that hurts marriages and children.

90% of the time, pornography is a solitary pastime developed for the purposes of stimulating a male to masturbate. It is VERY wide spread and the single largest industry on the internet by far.

If you wonder about the creeping effect of pornography, consider this. - In less than one generation, we have made smoking a greater sin than fornication. At one time, high schools had student lounges for smoking. Today, they hand out condoms and can not smoke on campus. One is an objective sin and another is a bad habit. One shortens your life another endangers your eternal life.

It can and should be made illegal. It serves no purpose whatsoever. This will at least make it a publicly illegitimate. Making something legal makes is appear to be moral, good, acceptable and the norm.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

miguel:

God making a point.

I feel an onset of depression coming on. I am in terrible shape right now, but it could be over in only minutes or days. I’m going to try to stay off these forums, in general, as much as possible until I get a grip. I love helping others but sometimes I can’t help myself. Some of you must have noticed changes in me, and have written me PMs that I apologize I haven’t even been all the way through.

Yes, “God making a point” is an excellent caption for the photo and that’s exactly what I intended it to be, as well as possible cathartic (is that the right word) options for those who wish to use it instead of wanting to bash their own sets.

For some reason I came to check this thread. I have a lot of regrets. I have a wonderful wife and six beautiful children and a good psychiatrist, so I have a great support system. I wish I still had a spiritual director. You all have been fantastic, and I apologize to those about whom I thought myself superior, which is probably more of you than I would like to admit. So many of you have so much class it’s wonderful.

I want to be nothing, in the contemplative sense. I’m overall very happy but I think I’m learning the teaching about when one demon goes out seven more sinister (and subtle it seems) come in to take their place. I have to do something different.

About the house, hopefully we will be able to move back in this month, but it’s not looking too promising. I’m not in a hurry because the air conditioner downstairs is broken and I don’t have the money to fix it.

BTW, to add to the symbology of “God making a point,” the house fire did happen to be on Good Friday. Catholics and non-Catholics friends and neighbors alike put us up for the night, literally gave us the coats off their backs, the shoes off their feet, and helped us in many other ways. Here’s some of what I’ve learned. Do not worry about tomorrow, what shall we wear, where shall we sleep. Some stuff can be replaced. Some cannot. Those things that cannot, I guess the Lord think I no longer need. Guess what? He’s right. One was my spiritual journal. Others were my favorite photos of my dad with my children. Now I can see the wisdom of pope JPII that he wanted his private papers burned. Those who want to keep them to try to mine “riches” out of them or help canonize him – I pray for them because I fear they may just totally misunderstand, and are looking for treasure in the wrong places – in a dead man’s dust bin. Of course I didn’t know the man personally, but somehow I wish he’d burned those things himself so we can quit trying to hang on to stuff. If he wanted to promulgate something, he could have done it.

When Christ told the rich boy to sell his possessions and give them to the poor, I don’t think he was talking about stewardship. I think he was talking about letting go of material things. Attachment to “stuff” has probably been a greater obstacle to me than nearly anything else, looking back at it from the tender young age of 46.

The house is being rebuilt better than it was before, and I thank State Farm for being so excellent, and the contractors. I have a whole lot of work to do. One of these days I’ll get photos of the rebuilding going on. Meanwhile I might as well let y’all take a look at some of the rest of the fire damage.

As you might be able to tell, I have been a junk collector. I hate junk now. The problem I’ve having is that I actually feel so helpless to lose the “junk” of various sorts that, well, I need to work on that.

God bless, and if things go like I predict, I’ll get over this little bout in a few hours and then I will feel foolish for having posted this. Nevertheless, I am in sound enough mind I want it here because I believe it has a purpose. Do not pity me; I am as happy as I’ve ever been but I have some things to work out and without a spiritual director I don’t know whether I should fast from these forums or embrace them all the more. (My guess is it would be the latter if I could get away with it. )

Alan