THoughts on the Story of Eden

[Valke2]

God is the focus in the previous chapter. Human is the focus in this chapter. Notice Gen 2:5 reads “When God made the earth and heaven…” Earth (almost) never comes before heaven in the phrase. Here it is signaling the primacy of terrestial affairs. It is the first clue that the story of Eden is going to explain the nature of humankind.

Another point of interest is that in both Chapter 1 and 2, it is clear that man is given power over the animal kingdom. It is explicit in Chapter 1 and implied in Chapter 2 when human is given the power to name all the animals. Therefore, it would seem that Human had the advantage over the Serpent. That is, Human was granted power over the Serpent – and therefore power to ignore and say no to the serpent. We learn that God grants Human dominion over the animal kingdom so that there can be no doubht that the choice to eat from the tree was completely in Human’s control.

 

[Valke2]

There is intitally, a complete harmony between God, nature and man. One purpose of the Story of Eden is to show why nature is often an obstacle. It is because Humans disobey God that work becomes toil, that the ground is cursed.

We also learn why childbirth is painful. without the story of Eden, we would be left to wonder why God had ordered us to procreate and at the same time made childbirth both painful and dangerous.

Similarly, since God created our body, why does nudity evoke embarassment? The answer is given in Gen. Chapter 2.

ALl this is a way of showing that there is no independent, prime evil in the world. At the time, pagan religoins taught that the source of evil was metaphysical – that is attributed to a god or gods or simply part of the overall way the world is. But the Eden story clearly shows that the source of evil is moral. It is caused by humanity.

Yes humans possess free will. But it is meant to be exercised in accordance with Divine Will. Free will requires that there be a choice and obligation to apply restraint in one’s choices. The natural byproduct of this is temptation (embodied in the serpent). The Eden story demonstrates the abuse of that power always results in disaster.

 

[Sam_777]

But the Eden story clearly shows that the source of evil is moral. It is caused by humanity.

Yes humans possess free will. But it is meant to be exercised in accordance with Divine Will.

Do you think the Serpent was demon-possessed when it talked to Eve or it was actually Satan per Revelation 12:9?

 

[Valke2]

Do you think the Serpent was demon-possessed when it talked to Eve or it was actually Satan per Revelation 12:9?

I don’t think the serpent was demon possessed or satan. I think it was what Genesis says it was – the most cunning of all animals. This is why I believe Genesis teaches that the origins of evil are not based on some entity or metaphysical state of being, but rather on the moral choices of humans. Since human was given dominon over the animal kingdom, and since the serpent was an animal, then Adam and Eve were more powerful than the serpent and the choices they made were their choices. They chose to exercise free will in a way that was not in accordance with the Divine Will.

 

[ralphinal]

Valke,

Very interesting. Some wonderful things to think about. How accepted would this be to most Jewish people?

 

[inJESUS]

Valke2,

i agree with what you wrote; however, am under the impression that you are saying we are our own demon? in other words, you do not believe in a real entity called satan whether portrayed as a serpent or whatever?

 

[Valke2]

Valke,

Very interesting. Some wonderful things to think about. How accepted would this be to most Jewish people?

As far as I know, everything I posted here should be acceptable to most Jewish people. At the very least, I don’t think anything I posted is incompatible with Jewish teaching.

 

[Valke2]

Valke2,

i agree with what you wrote; however, am under the impression that you are saying we are our own demon? in other words, you do not believe in a real entity called satan whether portrayed as a serpent or whatever?

That’s what I believe. I don’t believe in an source of evil that is independent of God. It is human choices that result in evil acts. The traditional jewish belief about Satan is that he is more of a prosecutor than an evil entity, such as we see in the story of Job. As far as the story of the Garden of Eden, we do not see it as introducing a demon or diety responsible for evil.

 

[inJESUS]

That’s what I believe. I don’t believe in an source of evil that is independent of God. It is human choices that result in evil acts. The traditional jewish belief about Satan is that he is more of a prosecutor than an evil entity, such as we see in the story of Job. As far as the story of the Garden of Eden, we do not see it as introducing a demon or diety responsible for evil.

so why there is exorcism in Judaism? or is it only your belief?

 

[Valke2]

This post is shifting to another interpretation, more in line with modern biblical scholarship than traditional theological arguments.

I got this from James Kugel’s “How To Read the Bible”.

One recent theory is that thestory reflects on a particular moment in the development of civilization. Not the creation of mankind, but rather the time when people first learned the secret of agriculture. Figuring out that seeds can be collected and planted in fields was a big step for humanity. It allowed us to become independent from the whims of hunting and gathering. But it brought with it a new set of pains. Farming meant working long hours under all conditions, earning one’s bread by the sweat of their face (Gen. 3:19). Around the same time as agriculture was discovered, some cultures began wearing more elaborate clothing. It is also known today that the discovery of agriculture coincided is some societies with the discovery that childbirth is also preceded by an act of “planting” that takes place 9 months earlier. Once it is known that children have two parents (instead of the woman becoming mysteriously pregnant), there can be a new division of labor and new social organizaiton. The man “wil cling to his wife and they shall be one flesh.” He will toil in the fields for his wife and his children. On the flip side, the story is telling us how the woman toils for her harvest, delivering children in pain and suffering.

According to this modern biblical theory, the story of Adam and Eve appears to be a kind of speculative reconstruction of the story of agriculture. It was the ancient Israelites attempt to consider how basic changes might have come about – how humans came to be farmers, learned the secret of childbirth, and came to fashion clothes for themselves.

 

[Valke2]

so why there is exorcism in Judaism? or is it only your belief?

I didn’t mean to suggest jews never believed in demons. Like the rest of the world, many times when someone was sick, the cause was attributed to demons and it was believed that demons would avoid rabbis out of fear of their knowledge of Torah.

Since this is not something that is part of normative judaism today, I’m not sure where we stand on demons now. Most references to them are found in stories in the Talmud. Generally, demons are to be found only in Jewish mythology and not in the sacred texts. And then there is very little information as to what they are or how they came into being.

There may be more about them in kabalah that I am not aware of.

 

[mercygate]

Valke2, you would enjoy reading John Paul II’s meditative discussion of this passage in his book Theology of the Body. In it he mentions something I had never known, and that blew me away – The old Rabbis note that “human” (Adam) does not become male until *after *the creation of Eve.

Man! the first three chapters of Genesis can keep you busy forever!

 

[Valke2]

Valke2, you would enjoy reading John Paul II’s meditative discussion of this passage in his book Theology of the Body. In it he mentions something I had never known, and that blew me away – The old Rabbis note that “human” (Adam) does not become male until *after *the creation of Eve.

Man! the first three chapters of Genesis can keep you busy forever!

I think I remember reading something like that. The reasoning being that there is no need for a sexual identity if there is only one of something.

 

[Jerusha]

Another interpretation is that human population grew until small groups that had previously been in isolation from each other came in contact, some loking different from others, some having higher levels of technology than others. Genetic diversity took a great leap forward, also contributing to the hardiness of those people (and contributing to the knowlege that sex is not merely recreation). That area of the world, at the intersection of three continents, would have been an area where this occurred very early.

I agree with all, meaning is certainly multi-layered.

 

[MementoMori3283]

That’s what I believe. I don’t believe in an source of evil that is independent of God. It is human choices that result in evil acts. The traditional jewish belief about Satan is that he is more of a prosecutor than an evil entity, such as we see in the story of Job. As far as the story of the Garden of Eden, we do not see it as introducing a demon or diety responsible for evil.

If we are to believe the naming of the animals indicates dominion, what are we to make of the plight of Job? I do not see the role of prosecutor, but tempter, albeit with illness and despair, but tempter nonetheless.

 

[mercygate]

I think I remember reading something like that. The reasoning being that there is no need for a sexual identity if there is only one of something.

Exactly. But when I read it for the first time it was like a grenade going off in my head. Gotta love those old Rabbis!

 

[fhansen]

This post is shifting to another interpretation, more in line with modern biblical scholarship than traditional theological arguments.

I got this from James Kugel’s “How To Read the Bible”.

One recent theory is that thestory reflects on a particular moment in the development of civilization. Not the creation of mankind, but rather the time when people first learned the secret of agriculture. Figuring out that seeds can be collected and planted in fields was a big step for humanity. It allowed us to become independent from the whims of hunting and gathering. But it brought with it a new set of pains. Farming meant working long hours under all conditions, earning one’s bread by the sweat of their face (Gen. 3:19). Around the same time as agriculture was discovered, some cultures began wearing more elaborate clothing. It is also known today that the discovery of agriculture coincided is some societies with the discovery that childbirth is also preceded by an act of “planting” that takes place 9 months earlier. Once it is known that children have two parents (instead of the woman becoming mysteriously pregnant), there can be a new division of labor and new social organizaiton. The man “wil cling to his wife and they shall be one flesh.” He will toil in the fields for his wife and his children. On the flip side, the story is telling us how the woman toils for her harvest, delivering children in pain and suffering.

According to this modern biblical theory, the story of Adam and Eve appears to be a kind of speculative reconstruction of the story of agriculture. It was the ancient Israelites attempt to consider how basic changes might have come about – how humans came to be farmers, learned the secret of childbirth, and came to fashion clothes for themselves.

What significance to you think the two trees and other items-the serpent, etc.- would have in this interpretation?

 

[Jerusha]

Significance of two trees:

Man now has more responsibility in making choices, one set being good, one set being bad.

Good:
Marriage bond
Male responsibility to children
Division of labor
etc, etc.

Bad:
Racism
Materialism
Sex as act of hatred
etc. etc.

Serpent says you can be as gods, setting yourself up as gods in acts of racism and gender inequality.

 

[mercygate]

Significance of two trees:

Man now has more responsibility in making choices, one set being good, one set being bad.

Good:
Marriage bond
Male responsibility to children
Division of labor
etc, etc.

Bad:
Racism
Materialism
Sex as act of hatred
etc. etc.

Serpent says you can be as gods, setting yourself up as gods in acts of racism and gender inequality.

Racism? There is only one “race” in the Garden. Gender equality? You offer an amusing political reflection on the two trees but to my thinking it is hermeneutically kind of naive to the point of pain.

 

[Jerusha]

Perhaps you are working fom a literal approach, I am working from an allegorical one.

However, the very idea of race is racist-- there is only one race, the human race which varies widely. And male and female are both fully human.