Thoughts On This Scenario

[Michael1511]

P.S. There’s a big difference between committing a sin and feeling no remorse, and committing a sin and feeling bad immediately. The latter is called repentance, and God knows if we are repentant in our hearts, regardless of whether we make it to confession or not before we die.

Peace,
Meeshy

But, here is what I think my sticking point is…In the book, “Catholicism for Dummies” it states that the act of perfect contrition will absolve you from your mortal sins, but there are two things that are necessary: you must be in immediate danger of death and you must have absolute intention of going to confession, if you survive. So, are we now saying that, if my hypothetical person commits the mortal sin of lying, and is immediately sorry and repentant for doing it and fully intends to confess it, but is killed in a freak accident before doing so, he is forgiven? That is what I don’t understand. I fully believe that…I do not believe that God would condemn this man to hell, but the books say something else.

 

[dranzal]

I think it was St. Faustina who said that when we die, the thing that will most surprise us will be the vastness of God’s mercy.

We, for some reason, are so scared of God “the Judge” that we lose sight of God “the Father”. A child would have to do something truly awful (indeed, something psychotic/sociopathic) to warrant a refusal of forgiveness by his father/mother. If that is true of us imperfect humans, why do we so often assume God is less merciful than that.

In many threads I have seen people do theological gymnastics around infant baptism/lack thereof. “Perhaps there is some ‘baptism of desire’ for the infant immediately after death provided by God in some way unknown to us.” Perhaps God knows the heart of the deceased and provides a way to repent in the event the deceased had a heart attack on the way to confession.

Hell is for the spiritually “dead”. It is for human “refuse” or remains. If we can see redemptive value in the hypothetical sinner, surely God can as well.

We need to purge from our minds the image of God sitting up on some judge chair making a list of all the things we did wrong each day. Deep booming God voice, “OOOO, I saw that!!! I’m writing that one down twice!!! You’re gonna be sorry!!!”

No loving father focuses all his attention on the wrongdoings of his child. God won’t need to “send” people to hell. If they are truly “dead” their rejection of God’s love is hell and they will “take” themselves there on their own.

 

[meeshy]

I think dranzal’s post is beautiful and very true.

During times when I feel unworthy because of my sins, I gain comfort by thinking of how I love my children regardless of what they’ve done, and that God’s love for his children is a million times greater than our humanly love ever possibly could be.

Peace,
Meeshy

 

[vern_humphrey]

Do you mean we should only discuss this if I can find a real, holy human being that died without contrition during commission of a mortal sin?

We cannot use that which cannot happen as the basis of a scenario – that is, a serious senario.

You prove something can happen by showing it did happen.

That keeps us from having simulations involving invasions from Mars, or demonic possession of the Congress (although the latter just might be real.)

I’ll start looking for this guy. It’s really going to be tough to see if he was contrite at the moment of death though. Sure wish we could use a hypothetical situation.

And that’s why this hypothetical situation is invalid.

I somehow think this question makes the people here really uncomfortable. The responses insist on addressing the margins of the problem rather than the heart of it.

That’s the normal result of using an invalid scenario.

At least Fr. Serpa had the (insert your own body part(s) here) to address the problem.

Lack of body parts, you mean.

 

[vern_humphrey]

But, here is what I think my sticking point is…In the book, “Catholicism for Dummies” it states that the act of perfect contrition will absolve you from your mortal sins, but there are two things that are necessary: you must be in immediate danger of death and you must have absolute intention of going to confession, if you survive. So, are we now saying that, if my hypothetical person commits the mortal sin of lying, and is immediately sorry and repentant for doing it and fully intends to confess it, but is killed in a freak accident before doing so, he is forgiven? That is what I don’t understand. I fully believe that…I do not believe that God would condemn this man to hell, but the books say something else.

Which book says that?

You are assuming some book addresses your hypothetical scenario – but there isn’t a book that does that. What you’re doing is assuming what the author of the book would say **if **he addressed your scenario.

 

[bilop]

But, here is what I think my sticking point is…In the book, “Catholicism for Dummies” it states that the act of perfect contrition will absolve you from your mortal sins, but there are two things that are necessary: you must be in immediate danger of death and you must have absolute intention of going to confession, if you survive. So, are we now saying that, if my hypothetical person commits the mortal sin of lying, and is immediately sorry and repentant for doing it and fully intends to confess it, but is killed in a freak accident before doing so, he is forgiven? That is what I don’t understand. I fully believe that…I do not believe that God would condemn this man to hell, but the books say something else.

I think you have it correct. if he repents and intends to go to confession, he will be forgiven. If he is not repentent, he condemns himself to Hell.

I think it is very dangerous to presume the almost infinite mercy of God, even for unrepented mortal sin. Jesus says it is hard to get to Heaven. He doesn’t say, “Don’t worry, unless you’re a total psychopath you will be forgiven”.

Nothing I’ve studied leads me to think Hell is sparsely populated.

 

[Michael1511]

Which book says that?

You are assuming some book addresses your hypothetical scenario – but there isn’t a book that does that. What you’re doing is assuming what the author of the book would say **if **he addressed your scenario.

Here’s an idea: If you are going to continually attack the scenario without answering the basis of my question, then stop responding to my posts. You either don’t know the answer or are uncomfortable with truthfully answering.

Summed up, here is my question for the last time: If I, 1) commit what amounts to a mortal sin and 2) am immediately sorry for it, and 3) I intend to go to confession for it, BUT I am 4) killed in freak accident two days later without having been able to go to confession, am I bound for heaven or hell?

That’s the basis of the hypothetical scenario.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Here’s an idea: If you are going to continually attack the scenario without answering the basis of my question, then stop responding to my posts. You either don’t know the answer or are uncomfortable with truthfully answering.

Here’s a better idea. If you don’t like straighforward answers, don’t go looking for them.

Summed up, here is my question for the last time: If I, 1) commit what amounts to a mortal sin and 2) am immediately sorry for it, and 3) I intend to go to confession for it, BUT I am 4) killed in freak accident two days later without having been able to go to confession, am I bound for heaven or hell?

That’s not your original senario.

In this case, the Church’s position is clear. A person who is sincerely sorry for his sin and who intends to make a good confession at the first opportunity will not be condemned.

 

[Michael1511]

Here’s a better idea. If you don’t like straighforward answers, don’t go looking for them.

That’s not your original senario.

In this case, the Church’s position is clear. A person who is sincerely sorry for his sin and who intends to make a good confession at the first opportunity will not be condemned.

You are correct, that is not my original scenario. Thanks to relevant information provided by others in this thread, it was changed to what you see above, and what I was originally trying to find out. Possibly, I could have been a little clearer.

Your answer to the Church’s position above is appreciated. As anyone reading your previous posts can tell, your comment about “straightforward answers” is absurd. Did you ever think about running for Congress???