Threat of hell is real for not being faithful to God, pope says

[BarbTh]

At first, must admit, I frowned at the title of the thread and I think maybe the hairs on the back of my head might have stood up a little - then the quotation below from First Letter of St John came to mind and reminded me of how often the Teachings of Jesus were very often about repentance and renewal of life. His very Incarnation, life and death was about rescuing us from our sinful state and opening Heaven for us - about restoring our relationship to The Father in Him through the Power of The Holy Spirit.

When asked how often we should forgive, Jesus replied seventy times seven - meaning that the number of times cannot be counted, endless; a reflection of the number of times God will forgive us. And as we pray in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. We must forgive without counting as God will forgive us without counting.

I think Pope Francis’s statement probably was about Judgement Day - and also an invitation to “think about it”.

First Letter St John 1:5

5 Now this is the message that we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, 2 and in him there is no darkness at all.

6 If we say, “We have fellowship with him,” while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie and do not act in truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us.

9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

10 If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Deo Gratius

 

[TCEL]

At first, must admit, I frowned at the title of the thread and I think maybe the hairs on the back of my head might have stood up a little - then the quotation below from First Letter of St John came to mind and reminded me of how often the Teachings of Jesus were very often about repentance and renewal of life. His very Incarnation, life and death was about rescuing us from our sinful state and opening Heaven for us - about restoring our relationship to The Father in Him through the Power of The Holy Spirit.

When asked how often we should forgive, Jesus replied seventy times seven - meaning that the number of times cannot be counted, endless; a reflection of the number of times God will forgive us. And as we pray in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. We must forgive without counting as God will forgive us without counting.

I think Pope Francis’s statement probably was about Judgement Day - and also an invitation to “think about it”.

Deo Gratius

Whenever I raised the point of the conviction of the reality of Hell in my own deeper conversion, and the desolation of my unworthiness, no one I’ve talked with on a casual level seemed to understand. I’ve had several people question if it might not have come from the Devil. So I don’t really talk about it all that much. Meanwhile, I’ve read in other places that it’s a very natural stage of the spiritual journey. Pope Francis is right.

 

[BarbTh]

Whenever I raised the point of the conviction of the reality of Hell in my own deeper conversion, and the desolation of my unworthiness, no one I’ve talked with on a casual level seemed to understand. I’ve had several people question if it might not have come from the Devil. So I don’t really talk about it all that much. Meanwhile, I’ve read in other places that it’s a very natural stage of the spiritual journey. Pope Francis is right.

Apologies, but I don’t quite know what you mean. I would never dispute the very real reality of Hell and the potential for damnation. Certainly, I hold too that were it not for God’s Love and Mercy we would deserve it due to the reality of what sin actually is before the Glory and Holiness of God.

Be the above as it may, my post was to underscore as best I could the call to repentance and renewal of life as a call of Jesus and the Gospel and no matter how mild or serious one’s moral status might be. Repentance and renewal is intrinsic to being “Faithful to God”.

Not one single person, not even the greatest of our saints (Mary, Mother of Jesus is the only exception), is or was perfect and perfection is a command of Jesus “Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect”. We remain, all of us without any exceptions whatsoever sinful and sinners in need of the Gratuitous Mercy of God. The Sacrament of Reconciliation demonstrates that Mercy as nothing else can.

We know that in a Good Confession we are returned to the state of Supernatural Grace should we have lost it through mortal sin. We also know that Confession is open to us all no matter our failings, even very serious failings, and as often as we might have seriously failed…and endlessly so as long as we live.

A Good Confession rescues one completely from damnation in the face of the most serious of sins. A Good Confession returns us completely to the state of Supernatural Grace, it also grants Actual Grace for the struggle against sin both small and great. Going to Confession, I think, is also a witness to God’s Love and Mercy even if one has no serious sin or sins to confess.

Such is the Infinite and Faithful Love and Mercy of our God for His creatures.

 

[TCEL]

Apologies, but I don’t quite know what you mean. I would never dispute the very real reality of Hell and the potential for damnation. Certainly, I hold too that were it not for God’s Love and Mercy we would deserve it due to the reality of what sin actually is before the Glory and Holiness of God.

Be the above as it may, my post was to underscore as best I could the call to repentance and renewal of life as a call of Jesus and the Gospel and no matter how mild or serious one’s moral status might be. Repentance and renewal is intrinsic to being “Faithful to God”.

Not one single person, not even the greatest of our saints (Mary, Mother of Jesus is the only exception), is or was perfect and perfection is a command of Jesus “Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect”. We remain, all of us without any exceptions whatsoever sinful and sinners in need of the Gratuitous Mercy of God. The Sacrament of Reconciliation demonstrates that Mercy as nothing else can.

We know that in a Good Confession we are returned to the state of Supernatural Grace should we have lost it through mortal sin. We also know that Confession is open to us all no matter our failings, even very serious failings, and as often as we might have seriously failed…and endlessly so as long as we live.

A Good Confession rescues one completely from damnation in the face of the most serious of sins. A Good Confession returns us completely to the state of Supernatural Grace, it also grants Actual Grace for the struggle against sin both small and great. Going to Confession, I think, is also a witness to God’s Love and Mercy even if one has no serious sin or sins to confess.

Such is the Infinite and Faithful Love and Mercy of our God for His creatures.

I was not disagreeing with you, simply musing on how what you said applied to my own situation. When it comes to personal conversions, or spiritual experiences, people seem really suspect at the mention of feelings of desolation, or the conviction of the reality of Hell. Like somehow these things are base, illegitimate, or even demonic! Point is, these things can certainly be legitimate in our faith walk, and Pope Francis is merely reminding us there’s a time and a place for reflecting on our personal judgment.

 

[BarbTh]

I was not disagreeing with you, simply musing on how what you said applied to my own situation. When it comes to personal conversions, or spiritual experiences, people seem really suspect at the mention of feelings of desolation, or the conviction of the reality of Hell. Like somehow these things are base, illegitimate, or even demonic! Point is, these things can certainly be legitimate in our faith walk, and Pope Francis is merely reminding us there’s a time and a place for reflecting on our personal judgment.

Thank you for the clarification, TCEL. I was unsure in the post to which you refer what you meant. I agree with your points above. With unusual types of experiences which are not common experiences, it is always best to speak with a spiritual director taking up the advice with docility. St Teresa of Avila did point out to be wary of the unusual experience as it could indeed proceed from self (imagination) or even the devil and apparently originating source might not be not readily apparent.

St Teresa also pointed out that these uncommon experiences can be sent by God to provide encouragement in weakness. Not always of course.

Having said that, such experiences can indeed be part and parcel of a Faith journey. Those that have never had such experiences can find them impossible to understand and hence might be absolutely dismissive and disparaging of the experience(s), and perhaps especially where someone known to them is concerned. St Teresa of Avila herself was accused of having experiences from the devil and this caused her much suffering. They were in truth from God however. Sometimes in the journey, we might need be content that God alone knows the truth of matters. “Man judges by appearances, but The Lord knows the heart.” (First Book of Kings/1 Samuel Chapter 16).

We are created by God as social beings needing each other. Sometimes we can be very much alone with God only in the midst of misunderstandings by others - and that can be a difficult trial.

Since we do not know the date nor the hour, it is always very wise and prudent to be aware that death can occur at anytime and entirely unexpectedly and followed by personal judgement; hence, I could not agree more with your reflection the words of Pope Francis under discussion.
I am reminded of a great friend of mine who died very suddenly and unexpectedly of an aneurysm. She was in her mid forties in good health and holidaying with her husband - chatting away with another person in the caravan park. Her husband stepped out of the caravan to speak to her to see her drop to the ground. She was dead.

May God continue to bless and support you…Barb

 

[BarbTh]

True, it is not Pope Francis’s verbatim words - but the implication is clear as a potential danger if “you always live far from The Lord” especially since we do not know the time of our death.
I was unable to find an actual transcript. The following is a summary only from CNA (Catholic News Service) in which their headline is the same as the thread title.

. catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/threat-of-hell-is-real-for-not-being-faithful-to-god-pope-says.cfm

The Lord will come to judge the earth, Pope Francis said. However, some people don’t recognize that fact, deceiving themselves into thinking the end is nowhere in sight, and how they live on earth has no consequences after death, he said.

“I remember when I was a boy, when I’d go to catechism they taught us four things: death, judgment, hell or glory – that after judgment there’s this possibility” of going to hell or sharing in God’s glory, the pope said.

But the kids were incredulous, he said, telling the priest he was only saying those things to scare them.

The priest, he said, insisted, “No, it’s true! Because if you do not take care of your heart so that the Lord is with you, and you always live far from the Lord, perhaps there is this danger, the danger of continuing to be distanced from the Lord for all of eternity.”

Pope Francis said people have to reflect seriously about the kind of mark they will leave behind after they are gone.