Three illegal immigrants shot dead crossing US border: police

[Jeffrey]

Three illegal immigrants were shot dead and two more were wounded after falling prey to suspected bandits as they crossed into the United States from Mexico, police said.

Sergeant James Ogden of Pima County Sheriff’s Department said the bodies of three men were discovered early Thursday after ranchers found a group of immigrants stumbling through the desert in southwest Arizona.

breitbart.com/news/2007/02/08/070208234922.q29fpsvl.html

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

From the link…
Two of the immigrants were taken to hospital for treatment to injuries while two more were being questioned by police trying to piece together events leading to the killings.

Ogden told AFP police were working on the theory that the group had been ambushed by bandits lying in wait for them as they crossed the border.​

I heard this story on the radio. Now, it appears that Mexico is exporting its crime and mayhem onto US soil.

The illegals who are being treated at US hospitals for their injuries no doubt will be receiving that care free courtesy of the hospital and somewhere down the road from the US taxpayer.

This is violence and yet, the impotent government of the USA does not seem to think it needs to protect the citizens of this country. Gosh, they would do more to prevent this from happening in Iraq than they do on our southern border.

:heart:Blyss

 

[stlouismb]

May I just ask, Blyss, why so much intolerance? Did you not hear or read Pope John Paul II on the subject of illegal immigration in July of 1995? I quote a small portion:

"When an understanding of the problem is conditioned by prejudice and xenophobic attitudes, the Church must not fail to speak up for brotherhood and to accompany it with acts testifying to the primacy of charity.

The prominence assumed by the welfare aspects of their precarious situation should not mean that less attention is paid to the fact that there are often Catholic Christians among the illegal migrants who, in the name of the same faith, often seek pastors of souls and places where they can pray, listen to God’s word and celebrate the Lord’s mysteries. Dioceses have the duty to meet these needs.

In the Church no one is a stranger, and the Church is not foreign to anyone, anywhere. As a sacrament of unity and thus a sign and a binding force for the whole human race, the Church is the place where illegal immigrants are also recognized and accepted as brothers and sisters. It is the task of the various Dioceses actively to ensure that these people, who are obliged to live outside the safety net of civil society, may find a sense of brotherhood in the Christian community.

Solidarity means taking responsibility for those in trouble. For Christians, the migrant is not merely an individual to be respected in accordance with the norms established by law, but a person whose presence challenges them and whose needs become an obligation for their responsibility. “What have you done to your brother?” (Cf. Gen 4:9). The answer should not be limited to what is imposed by law, but should be made in the manner of solidarity."

Can you explain your harsh tone? I am truly curious how a Catholic can have such a view. Maybe I should go to the apologist forum to ask.

Peace,

Mike

 

[LRThunder]

May I just ask, Blyss, why so much intolerance? Did you not hear or read Pope John Paul II on the subject of illegal immigration in July of 1995? I quote a small portion:

"When an understanding of the problem is conditioned by prejudice and xenophobic attitudes, the Church must not fail to speak up for brotherhood and to accompany it with acts testifying to the primacy of charity.

The prominence assumed by the welfare aspects of their precarious situation should not mean that less attention is paid to the fact that there are often Catholic Christians among the illegal migrants who, in the name of the same faith, often seek pastors of souls and places where they can pray, listen to God’s word and celebrate the Lord’s mysteries. Dioceses have the duty to meet these needs.

In the Church no one is a stranger, and the Church is not foreign to anyone, anywhere. As a sacrament of unity and thus a sign and a binding force for the whole human race, the Church is the place where illegal immigrants are also recognized and accepted as brothers and sisters. It is the task of the various Dioceses actively to ensure that these people, who are obliged to live outside the safety net of civil society, may find a sense of brotherhood in the Christian community.

Solidarity means taking responsibility for those in trouble. For Christians, the migrant is not merely an individual to be respected in accordance with the norms established by law, but a person whose presence challenges them and whose needs become an obligation for their responsibility. “What have you done to your brother?” (Cf. Gen 4:9). The answer should not be limited to what is imposed by law, but should be made in the manner of solidarity."

Can you explain your harsh tone? I am truly curious how a Catholic can have such a view. Maybe I should go to the apologist forum to ask.

Peace,

Mike

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. A country that fails to secure its borders is in danger of losing its sovereignty. The United States is a sovereign nation; if it was only a state in a country of North America, that would be one thing.

I don’t have any problems if immigrants want to come here legally. The key word is legally.

 

[stlouismb]

LRT, in your case, I am sure it is not xenophobia. It must be part of the equation for some, or was JP2 “just blowing smoke”?
I am not sure what you mean by loss of soveriegnty. Could you explain?
As to the document I quoted, and I agree with you as well, both conclude: legally is better.

 

[LRThunder]

LRT, in your case, I am sure it is not xenophobia. It must be part of the equation for some, or was JP2 “just blowing smoke”?
I am not sure what you mean by loss of soveriegnty. Could you explain?
As to the document I quoted, and I agree with you as well, both conclude: legally is better.

What I mean by loss of sovereignty is the right and the responsibility of any sovereign nation to be able to control its borders. First, the government is not doing that, which is troubling in of itself. Second, Mexico seems to disrespecting our borders by not doing anything to help its citizens, which in turn would decrease the need for illegal immigration.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by stlouismb
I am truly curious how a Catholic can have such a view.

It’s not “right”, but living here in AZ, I can understand it.
If you lived anywhere along the border, you would understand also, though not approve.
THOUSANDS of these people come running across the border illegally every day! They can’t speak English, they have no home here, they have no money, they have no food, they have no job, but worst of all, they are leaving TONS of trash in the desert here and destroying our fragile eco-system.
They are using free ACCSS health care, backing up the hospital emergency rooms and causing ininsured accidents all over our roads.
People here are getting sick to the death of it and I’m afraid that this incident is just the tip of an emerging iceberg.
Their race does NOT matter. Whoever is flooding in ILLEGALLY is not welcome.
You might want to think about this issue from us border state people’s point of view and consider that the next illegal running over may be a terrorist!

 

[Kendy]

From the link…
Two of the immigrants were taken to hospital for treatment to injuries while two more were being questioned by police trying to piece together events leading to the killings.

Ogden told AFP police were working on the theory that the group had been ambushed by bandits lying in wait for them as they crossed the border.​

I heard this story on the radio. Now, it appears that Mexico is exporting its crime and mayhem onto US soil.

The illegals who are being treated at US hospitals for their injuries no doubt will be receiving that care free courtesy of the hospital and somewhere down the road from the US taxpayer.

This is violence and yet, the impotent government of the USA does not seem to think it needs to protect the citizens of this country. Gosh, they would do more to prevent this from happening in Iraq than they do on our southern border.

:heart:Blyss

Let me get this straight. You are upset because two people who were shot are being treated at US hospitals. Do you suggest we let them die? Wow. You really have a heart problem. I suggest you talk to a priest.

 

[Kendy]

May I just ask, Blyss, why so much intolerance? Did you not hear or read Pope John Paul II on the subject of illegal immigration in July of 1995? I quote a small portion:

Mike

I have posted that article several times on this forum and everytime I post it, it doesn’t even get looked at. I am not really worried that people with these attitudes are going to have an effect on our policy. But it’s still sad to know that people can be sold cold, esp. in the church.

 

[Kendy]

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. A country that fails to secure its borders is in danger of losing its sovereignty. The United States is a sovereign nation; if it was only a state in a country of North America, that would be one thing.

I don’t have any problems if immigrants want to come here legally. The key word is legally.

Then tell your congressperson to pass immigration reform, which would permit legal immigration. I assure you that the illegal immigrants would prefer to come here illegal. It’s in their best interest.

Kendy

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Let me get this straight. You are upset because two people who were shot are being treated at US hospitals. Do you suggest we let them die? Wow. You really have a heart problem. I suggest you talk to a priest.

Thank you for you great advice. I will deposit it right in the trash where it belongs. Who do you think is going to pay for their treatment Kendy? Maybe you feel fine with it, but I don’t. there are citizens of this country who do not have access to health care…except the ER when they are so ill that it is often the last resort. Then they are stuck having to pay an astronomical bill. If they are really poor then Medicaid might pay it…if they are just in the “in between” zone they are stuck paying it. Are the illegals going to pay their bills? You’re kidding if you think they are…it will be your insurance and mine that will end up paying, because when a hospital does not get reimbursed for the care they give…it ends up resting on your shoulders and mine. The $3.00 Qtip that we are charged for that would only cost 25 cents, is the hospital’s way of getting reimbursed. Our insurance ends up paying it…so excuse me if I don’t shed too many tears over people who should NOT even be in this country in the first place.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Then tell your congressperson to pass immigration reform, which would permit legal immigration. I assure you that the illegal immigrants would prefer to come here illegal. It’s in their best interest.

Kendy

Duh?! Hello? We HAVE legal immigration and there are thousands who are able to take advantage of our legal immigration system every year. What you want is for there to be an ILLEGAL immigration system, which, in effect would make anyone and everyone legal just because they decide to steal into our country without the benefit of the law. I don’t believe for a minute that the illegals would care if they came here legally or not. To come legally might make them have to have some responsibilities or some “hoops” to jump through and it seems they just want into the country no matter what.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Can you explain your harsh tone? I am truly curious how a Catholic can have such a view. Maybe I should go to the apologist forum to ask.

Peace,

Mike

Oh, please do…:
:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I have posted that article several times on this forum and everytime I post it, it doesn’t even get looked at. I am not really worried that people with these attitudes are going to have an effect on our policy. But it’s still sad to know that people can be sold cold, esp. in the church.

Oh, don’t be so high and mighty…your opinion really doesn’t matter at all. My sympathy will go to poor Americans in need. Don’t be so quick to judge others…I have yet to meet the perfect person…

:heart:Blyss

 

[Al_Masetti]

Do we know WHO ACTUALLY was the shooter?

Anyway, just to add some more heat to the discussion:

I heard an interview on the radio, in which the number thrown out was that nearly 30% of Federal prisoners are illegal aliens.

I looked around and there is tons of stuff, but here is just one link with a very abbreviated excerpt.

Percent of Federal prisoners who are illegal aliens.

city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

The sheer number of criminal aliens overwhelmed an innovative program that would allow immigration officials to complete deportation hearings while a criminal was still in state or federal prison, so that upon his release he could be immediately ejected without taking up precious INS detention space. But the process, begun in 1988, immediately bogged down due to the numbers—in 2000, for example, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. The agency couldn’t find enough pro bono attorneys to represent such an army of criminal aliens (who have extensive due-process rights in contesting deportation) and so would have to request delay after delay. Or enough immigration judges would not be available. In 1997, the INS simply had no record of a whopping 36 percent of foreign-born inmates who had been released from federal and four state prisons without any review of their deportability. They included 1,198 aggravated felons, 80 of whom were soon re-arrested for new crimes.

 

[mary_bobo]

Let me get this straight. You are upset because two people who were shot are being treated at US hospitals. Do you suggest we let them die? Wow. You really have a heart problem. I suggest you talk to a priest. /QUOTE

Here, here now. Let’s have some charity with fellow posters. I really don’t believe that the other posters on this issue want harm to come to immigrants. But there is a LEGAL way to enter this country and we would like to see them take it. There is just no way our country can continue to support everyone who comes across the border without denying care to those Americans who were either born here or immigrated here legally. As big as hearts might be to help those less fortunate, a little common sense and basic economics needs to be put in play.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Kendy;1897131:

Let me get this straight. You are upset because two people who were shot are being treated at US hospitals. Do you suggest we let them die? Wow. You really have a heart problem. I suggest you talk to a priest.

You are right mary lobo and I don’t believe I said they should not be treated. I merely stated that they will be doing so at the expense of the taxpayers of this country. Because it will ultimately come back on us one way or the other. I never said I wanted them to die either …but yes, my sympathy will first and foremost go to poor Amereicans who are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the abysmmal health care for the poor in this country.

There ARE hospitals along the border who are having to close or drastically cut back because of this very problem. That hurts everyone…

:heart:Blyss

 

[Kendy]

Thank you for you great advice. I will deposit it right in the trash where it belongs. Who do you think is going to pay for their treatment Kendy? Maybe you feel fine with it, but I don’t. there are citizens of this country who do not have access to health care…except the ER when they are so ill that it is often the last resort. Then they are stuck having to pay an astronomical bill. If they are really poor then Medicaid might pay it…if they are just in the “in between” zone they are stuck paying it. Are the illegals going to pay their bills? You’re kidding if you think they are…it will be your insurance and mine that will end up paying, because when a hospital does not get reimbursed for the care they give…it ends up resting on your shoulders and mine. The $3.00 Qtip that we are charged for that would only cost 25 cents, is the hospital’s way of getting reimbursed. Our insurance ends up paying it…so excuse me if I don’t shed too many tears over people who should NOT even be in this country in the first place.

:heart:Blyss

I will pray for you.

 

[Kendy]

Kendy;1897131:

Let me get this straight. You are upset because two people who were shot are being treated at US hospitals. Do you suggest we let them die? Wow. You really have a heart problem. I suggest you talk to a priest.

The poster said, "Don’t expect me to shed any tears for peoplw who shouldn’t be in this country in the first place, and I am the one who lacks charity? Are you kidding me? I am speechless.

 

[Kendy]

Duh?! Hello? We HAVE legal immigration and there are thousands who are able to take advantage of our legal immigration system every year. What you want is for there to be an ILLEGAL immigration system, which, in effect would make anyone and everyone legal just because they decide to steal into our country without the benefit of the law. I don’t believe for a minute that the illegals would care if they came here legally or not. To come legally might make them have to have some responsibilities or some “hoops” to jump through and it seems they just want into the country no matter what.

:heart:Blyss

You have lots of preconceived and hateful notions, which have little to do with reality. However, I grew up in immigrant dominated Miami, and I have watched people who are willing to sell an arm and a leg for legal status.

The fact is that the current policy does not offer enough legal permits to meet the need for US labor.

Kendy