Three illegal immigrants shot dead crossing US border: police

[Ituyu]

.
To me the issue has more to do with being “Poor” than being “legal” or “illegal”. What would change in terms of our costs if those in the “illegal” category were moved to the “legal” category? This is a burden that society must undertake as our economic system is not perfect. That is why we need to have sane policies that allow us to permit those we need into the country. That will serve the purpose of reducing our costs related to “illegal” entry because most people concerned with survival and the needs of their families would opt for the legal option IF IT WERE AVAILABLE, an option denied for no good reason… It is the safest and least expensive route for those on BOTH sides of the border. It should have been available for MOST and should not have been available for SOME. It would be much more effective to spend our enforcement resources on the “SOME” who would represent those who we do not want here. If we fill our needs with the people we WANT then the demand for their labor will decline dramatically as the laws of Supply and Demand have always worked. Once natural market forces are in balance, most of those coming here for a better life and without legal recourse would have no incentive to come here for jobs and that would allow us to zero in on the real threat along our border. However, I’m not naive enough to think that our efforts along the Mexican border, even if it were 100% effective, would make a terrorist threat any less likely because national security and “illegal immigration” do not have a cause an effect relationship. Terrorists do not come here to have a better life or to better support their children. They are not concerned with medical care. For the most part they have the resources to meet their needs and to gain “LEGAL” entry. For the most part they are educated or have the financing to meet all of their needs. And, if there are those who can’t afford to come “legally”, our northern border is far safer to cross, more porous and therefore a greater terrorist concern than our southern border.

 

[Kendy]

Well there are so many. How about this one(Leviticus 25 :35) - remember a countrymen was a member of the religion thus any Catholic Hispanic is our countryman as used here. Aliens are other religions and temporaries are travelers.

" *If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God. *

Additionally there are the
(Exodus 23:10-11)(Leviticus 25:1-7)(Deuteronomy 15:1-6)

Exodus 23: "For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops, but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.

Thanks. I once pulled out all the passages dealing with treatment of foreigners. Maybe, I will do that later, but I gotta go .

 

[Texas_Roofer]

This is an emotional issue, and I understand the implications of the gospel.

But, in this country, as in many others, theft is not legal. And, these illegal immigrants are stealing quite a bit from the U.S. If there was a plausable argument that we need this source of labor, then legal immigration could solve it, along with the fact that tens of millions of illegals are here already.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. You or I wouldn’t get away with anything like this in Mexico. Who is kidding who here?

Not only would you not get away with this in Mexico, there would be a tremendous prejudice against you, being from the U.S. And, Mexico does not have an American-like constitution. There is no presumption of innocence – you are assumed guilty until proved otherwise. There is no system of due process. You do not have a right to freedom from abuse or torture in prison. You have to pay for your own keep in jail or in prison. And, on and on.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. Where does it say that people have the right to steal, in the bible?

We fought a war with Mexico for the western states, fair and square. We won.

If they are here to steal, why do they work hard all day for low wages? Is there a plan to case the joint for years until one day (they die of old age), oh wait maybe they are not throwing away the disposable paint rollers! May be at the end on the day they take our drywall scrapes and used disposable paint roller home, is that what you are referring to?

 

[MariaG]

I don’t see any other recourse for the millions here now who are illegal. We cannot send them all back…that just isn’t logical. BUT…we need to start anew and with an immigration policy that is fair and just, but that has some strength to it. Those here illegally now, must come forward and let us know who they are and they need to pay a fine or a penalty for coming here against the laws of the land. Then they can go on to live their lives as productive members of society.

BUT…we cannot keep giving amnesties every 20 years or so. We cannot have an immigration policy by default…

:heart:Blyss

I completely AGREE!!!

We need to do something for those here, AS WELL AS stop the flood of illegals and as you say amnesty every 20 years to take care of the mess that we allowed to happen.

Either through open doors, but documented or closed, either would keep our country safe and keep the children from suffering from this.

 

[pnewton]

Just because I personally feel no sympathy, doesnt mean my prayers dont go out to them.

You are quite right and pray for other is a start.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

What good do words do if one is not willing to support the basic needs of people. Charity, without actions, is worthless. You said in your first post:

and now you think they should get hospital benefits?!

Of course we do. It is specifically the instance Jesus used in the parable of the Good Samaritan. We must love our neighbors as much as we do ourselves, according to our master, including providing hospitilazation when in need. Read the parable, or watch Veggietales, Are Your My Neighbor.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I am shocked and appalled at the outright racism that some of you are posting. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Do you actually know the meaning of the word “racism”? IF you do, you will find none of it on this thread. There is a difference between being against illegal immigration and racism…Too bad you don’t know the difference.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I have heard about illegal immigration constantly for the past 15 years. Usually around ellection time.

Kendy

I haven’t actually. Not since the last amnesty that Reagan pulled off in 1986. It has just been in the last couple of years that it has been on the forefront in my experience. It really should have been addressed long before now. Long before millions of more illegals have snuck their way into his country.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I actually agree with your policy prescription. But I hope you would realize that it’s the anti-immigrant feelings that you have expressed on this board that keeps this policy from happening. Our officials are not doing this because they are afraid of offending people like you so they do nothing because they figure as long as they don’t do anything they can get in trouble politically. It would help if you took what you just said in your last post and shared it with your congress people . As long as all they hear is angry rhetoric about Mexicans crowding hospitals, they will do nothing.

Kendy

They are worried about offending ME and others who think like ME? Are you kidding? We are the last ones they care about offending. IF they cared about the way we feel about illegal immigration they would be giving more than just a passing thought to securing up the borders…heck, they never even funded the stupid fence and have nothing else on the books to do anything about stopping the illegals. WHO they do NOT want to offend is the Hispanic community who are the fastest growing group in this country. They know current and future voters when they see them. They also know that sooner or later they will grant them amnesty and sooner or later they will be given the right to vote.

FYI…I HAVE been in constant communication with my representatives in Congress…you think I wouldn’t be? LOL They do their usual “song and dance” and then proceed to do NOTHING!!

The angry rhetoric about illegals crowding hospitals are facts and that is something our reps in Congress need to hear about. They need to know about how illegal immigration is affecting John and Jane Doe…the average American.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Oh seriously, how many of these illegal immigrant discussion are actually productive?

I only get involved if something really makes me angry, which is why you think I get “personal”. And this made me really angry. But this is mostly a waste of precious time.

Kendy

Wouldn’t you rather have discusiion that are productive insofar as getting one’s point across…otherwise what is our reason for even being on these boards? LOL…

These are the thoughts of the people behind the monitors kendy and we are each entitled to our own opinions. To get angry over what another person feels does nothing but make your blood pressure rise and that may be ok for you, but I would never let anything on a internet chat board get me so wound tight that I would let it bother me. As for this being a waste of precious time…why are we both here?

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Why do I really think this is simply another attempt to hide from your many poor statements you were asked to document and have not done so???

Of course I can document (see I do not have to make it up) In the 9/11 report if you search on the words “visa” or “passport” it will document the cases one by one. However you can simply look at the recommendations and see the report recommends “imposing tighter controls on student visas” ( Pg 204) 9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

If you spent have the time documenting your posts as you spend running from your words, you would be a better person.

Do you have absolute proof that there have NOT been terrorists who have come across the southern border? ABSOLUTE PROOF? No, because we have no idea how many have and unless you are standing on the border…and know who is coming through EVERY SQUARE INCH THEN YOU CANNOT SAY.

Making personal attacks against me doesn’t matter…that is what you do when you get backed against the wall…

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Do you have absolute proof that there have NOT been terrorists who have come across the southern border? ABSOLUTE PROOF? No, because we have no idea how many have and unless you are standing on the border…and know who is coming through EVERY SQUARE INCH THEN YOU CANNOT SAY.

Making personal attacks against me doesn’t matter…that is what you do when you get backed against the wall…

:heart:Blyss

Same old same old, you will write anything to distract from your statements You were asked about post #24 did you falsely quote some one? Yes or No Any of us could have asked the Moderators to answer the question. Yet we try to help you learn the truth.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

How many listen to todays readings, I doubt the Mexicans are the rich and the American are the poor
Gospel Lk 6:17, 20-26

Jesus came down with the twelve and stood on a stretch of level ground with a great crowd of his disciples and a large number of the people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon. And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours. Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude and insult you,and denounce your name as evil on account of the Son of Man. Rejoice and leap for joy on that day! Behold, your reward will be great in heaven. For their ancestors treated the prophets in the same way. ***But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. Woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.” ***

 

[Ituyu]

Do you have absolute proof that there have NOT been terrorists who have come across the southern border? ABSOLUTE PROOF? No, because we have no idea how many have and unless you are standing on the border…and know who is coming through EVERY SQUARE INCH THEN YOU CANNOT SAY.

Making personal attacks against me doesn’t matter…that is what you do when you get backed against the wall…

:heart:Blyss

Exposing the weakness in your arguments is not a personal attack.

One would have a more difficult task in proving that terrorists would be interested in our southern border when easier, safer and legal alternatives are available to them. One would think that focusing on those means of illegal entry would take priority.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

If you spent have the time documenting your posts as you spend running from your words, you would be a better person.

Ituyu…this is a personal attack. Whether my points are valid or not… to you or Tex…have no bearing on me as a person and it is a shame that the moderators here continue to let some of the members here make attacks like this without repercussions.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

How many listen to todays readings, I doubt the Mexicans are the rich and the American are the poor
Gospel Lk 6:17, 20-26

Jesus came down with the twelve and stood on a stretch of level ground with a great crowd of his disciples and a large number of the people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon. And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours. Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude and insult you,and denounce your name as evil on account of the Son of Man. Rejoice and leap for joy on that day! Behold, your reward will be great in heaven. For their ancestors treated the prophets in the same way. ***But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. Woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.” ***

So…blessed are the poor…ILLEGAL aliens…for the United States will provide a way for you to become rich? What is that? Where does it say that you are welcome to come into another country against the laws of that country?

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Same old same old, you will write anything to distract from your statements You were asked about post #24 did you falsely quote some one? Yes or No Any of us could have asked the Moderators to answer the question. Yet we try to help you learn the truth.

I apologize to mary lobo for “accidentally” using her as the basis for the quote. Are you as ready to apologize for the personal attacks you have made on me? I doubt it. Maybe the Moderators should take a closer look at some of the attacks you have made on this and other threads to me.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Occasionally as the anti-terrorist money was free flowing some people at the border attempted to mislead the government to receive these funds. *** At one point the Dallas Cowboy’s claimed the plans for their public funded football stadium should be secret (reducing public accountability) as an anti-terrorist measure. *** Similarly if you get mad at some one and call them a terrorist, should the police lock them up immediately? The problem here is basing rights on emotional over reactions not morals
.

Tex…this is quite an assertion, I am sure you will have NO problem backing it up with a link to the original story. I would be most interested in reading it. if you cannot then this would be called libelous.
:heart:Blyss

 

[Ituyu]

Ituyu…this is a personal attack. Whether my points are valid or not… to you or Tex…have no bearing on me as a person and it is a shame that the moderators here continue to let some of the members here make attacks like this without repercussions.

:heart:Blyss

It’s not an attack when it is true. I didn’t attack you and you didn’t respond to the subject of my post. I said exposing the weakness in your your argument is not a personal attack. I then exposed the weakness in your argument and instead of answering it you went on to a different issue.

 

[marciadietrich]

Just my two cents being added to this thread, not necessarily in reply to whoever this post falls below:

Luke 10:34-36 (part of the Good Samaritan parable): He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an in and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the inn-keeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense which you may have.’ Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?

Everyone should read the Catechism in regard to the universal destination of goods. Everyone should read the Bishops’ statement “Strangers No Longer”.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Ituyu…in your post #113…you state that showing the weakness in my arguments are not a personal attack. I agree. However…the statement below IS.…

Originally Posted by Texas Roofer
If you spent have the time documenting your posts as you spend running from your words, ***you would be a better person. ***

Then YOU go on to say:

**It’s not an attack when it is true. **

It is ONE thing to comment about my arguments…quite another to comment about what would make me a better person and that is just what Tex was doing and that is what I said was a personal attack…which it seems like people can get away with here.

:heart:Blyss