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irishpatrick
Guest
It equates the same thing-----CATHOLICS.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Please provide just one of these “shocking views” that make you respond as you have.
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irishpatrick
Guest
I agree 100%. However, I would really like to know why people–who vote Democratic–dislike abortion. What is the exact reasons they dislike abortion. I honestly do not think most on the left have thought about it much.
After all, if you vote for the left, you are supporting abortion rights, there is no way around that obvious fact. So, why would people on the left say they dislike abortion?
[actions always speak louder than words]
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irishpatrick
Guest
Yes, hopefully he will do much better than the polling suggests.I remember this exchange, but not that it was Santorum who initiated it.
Go Rick Santorum!
meltzerboy
New member
Most people on the left are not pro-abortion, but they are pro-choice. This means they believe the decision regarding abortion should be left (no pun intended) to the woman and her family, her doctor, and her spiritual advisor, if she has one. People on the left believe that the decision concerning abortion is a personal decision which should not be mandated by the government or by the religious beliefs of any one faith. We agree with Barbara Bush, Laura Bush, Nancy Reagan, and the late Betty Ford on this issue.
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estesbob
Guest
You find the teachings of the Chirch to be cold and vacuous? You are surprised to see people enunciating Catholic teaching in a Catholic Forum. Of course it would be helpful if you could bolster your disentangle from Church teaching with something other than "my conscience says it ok "
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estesbob
Guest
A distinction. Without a difference No matter what euphemisms are employed the child still ends up dead.
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exoflare
Guest
This is what happens when you don’t actually have to have standards for your beliefs. You can present the most elaborate and heartfelt outrage and name-calling, but you’ll never have to put an ounce of thought into actually explaining any of it (aka “jumping through hoops”… the nerve!
). Peer pressure is considered a sufficient “reason” by itself, so asking for any explanation beyond that provokes total indignation.
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jediliz
Guest
another reason not to vote for obama is who he chose for Health secretary…who is trying to FORCE everyone to cover contraceptives (some of which can cause chemical abortions!), including Catholic institutions!
I do NOT want to go through 4 more years of abortion is the best thing since sliced bread, letting people stay onn welfare forever, having people think the government needs to give them handouts for nothing, etc.
Obama has NOT been good for this countrry. Why haven’t some american companies returned to making goods here in the USA instead of making them in China, where they could possibly become contaminated with lead?
I do NOT want to go through 4 more years of abortion is the best thing since sliced bread, letting people stay onn welfare forever, having people think the government needs to give them handouts for nothing, etc.
Obama has NOT been good for this countrry. Why haven’t some american companies returned to making goods here in the USA instead of making them in China, where they could possibly become contaminated with lead?
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seekerz
Guest
Interesting how the First Ladies tend to have the same take but we are supposed to believe that their husbands truly aimed to overturn Roe v Wade.
If you have to apply the logic prevalent on this board, several presidents should have separated from their wives…seeing as how you can’t truly be pro-life and support to any extent or in any realm, people who are pro-choice.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Goodness! That’s like saying Soviets were not “pro-killing” but only desirous of “freeing the workers and peasants” from the clutches of “parasites” and “class enemies”. Killing innocents is killing innocents, and he who supports those who support, encourage or allow the killing of innocents is just as guilty of the killing as those who do it themselves.
One of the problems with permissive abortion is the corruption of soul its acceptance engenders. Well, I think maybe I’ll get free healthcare, for example, so I support the killers, not because I hold myself responsible for the killing…after all, I am not wielding the knife…but because I support the notion of free healthcare. And I never admit to others or perhaps even myself that I have become corrupted sufficient to not only accept the rewards of murder, but to aid and abet the killers.
And sometimes I can even turn my corruption into a virtue in my own mind. “Oh wait! It isn’t my own expectation of something for free, it’s that I sympathize with others who need it. Therefore, I’m actually virtuous, not corrupt at all.”
But He who knows our hearts better than we know them ourselves, will sift us exceedingly fine, and what fool thinks he can really deceive the King of Kings on his judgment day with such stuff as “But the Republicans never stopped abortion” or “I didn’t aid in the killing. I only supported freedom of choice”?
Personally, I don’t think any of us are going to fool Him in the slightest respect. Not as regards our support of killing innocent children, or as regards anything else.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Thoughtful and insightful, as usual.
And the below is exactly what is happening in our secular humanist society today.
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estesbob
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Nonsense. Neither the Church nor anyone in these forums have suggested one must separate from their spouse if they are pro-abortion More misdirection from those trying to defend the indefensibleInteresting how the First Ladies tend to have the same take but we are supposed to believe that their husbands truly aimed to overturn Roe v Wade.
If you have to apply the logic prevalent on this board, several presidents should have separated from their wives…seeing as how you can’t truly be pro-life and support to any extent or in any realm, people who are pro-choice.
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Tigg
Guest
I agree but the Republican party can no longer call itself conservative. Where does that leave us?
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seekerz
Guest
I never said that anyone suggested that, I was suggesting - tongue in cheek - that according to the reasoning being trumpeted on this forum (not by the Church), separating from a pro-choice spouse would seem the natural conclusion.
If you get some satisfaction from accusing me of “defending the indefensible” then go right ahead. You can’t dictate to my conscience and you will never qualify to be my judge.
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LayingHands
Guest
Low blow and not worthy of you…we are talking about the running for control of the entire United States and its peoples, international affairs, economy, etc.!Great to see you support abortion
Try to remember that the choice of pro-life belongs to humanity and they voted for the current policies…go after the right people to expend your energies against this matter…I’m sure you can find some better way to approve that circumstance, than attacking people on this forum…
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irishpatrick
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But…since the left looks at a womens right to kill her baby as so sacred, then why don’t people on the left willing to say they are pro-abortion? If they still remain in the position of not being pro-abortion, then what is (precisely) about abortion that makes them not personally support it?
Can’t you see how bankrupt (and utterly anti-intellectual) that position is?
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irishpatrick
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Nonsense. Prolife people do not banish prochoice people just because they support abortion. Never have and likely never will. I have plenty of pro-aborts in my extended family, I love them all, and do not judge them based on their pro-abort views. They know how I feel, and I know how they feel, so we have a mutual understand to not entering into thos discussions because after many earlier conversations we all learned it is often fruitless to speak about these things with family members (not always fruitless, but frequently).Interesting how the First Ladies tend to have the same take but we are supposed to believe that their husbands truly aimed to overturn Roe v Wade.
If you have to apply the logic prevalent on this board, several presidents should have separated from their wives…seeing as how you can’t truly be pro-life and support to any extent or in any realm, people who are pro-choice.
I cannot, in good conscience, support a politician who supports legal abortion–yet I never condemn them as people, I personally feel bad for them because they just won’t let their minds see the evil they are supporting.
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irishpatrick
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The GOP is still strongly prolife and strongly pro-traditional marriage. That is enough because those two issue alone surpass all others combined.
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estesbob
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I suggest you do a little research on Church teaching on conscience. you seem to beleive in the “primacy of conscience” myth. This is quite common among those trying to rationalize rejecting Church teaching in favor of their politics.
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