Three Positive Signs for Obama's Re-Election Chances

[rlg94086]

I am surpised a Catholic would even read this viruntely anti-catholic site-more or less post it. For instance:

• “There’s heated debate about whether it’s appropriate to call Ratzinger the Nazi Pope. It is not clear he’s still influenced by the Nazi teaching during his childhood, however, it is clear he was in the Nazi Youth Camp and he is notoriously ultraconversative.” *

"…I will call him Nazi Pope, plain and simple, for his past, more importantly, for his current facist doctrine."

“I hate the liberals whining when they do not know how to fight. I don’t care whether this guy is a real Nazi or not. He’s an ultraconservative and we need to demonize him as soon as possible.”

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I make no secret of that. I despise religion, all of it, even that part that does good, because it’s all based on lies. Like the war in Iraq, no good will ever come out of it, because it started with a lie. I concede ‘most’ priests were probably not pedophiles. They didn’t molest children physically, only developmentally, teaching them to remain forever infantile emotionally, with this idea that if they are only ‘good boys’ or ‘good girls’, a magical ‘father’ will break the physical laws of the universe on their behalf. Molesting them emotionally, by teaching them that the most joyful aspects of their physical nature are dirty, sinful; Abusing them intellectually, by teaching them there is an all-powerful authority they must never question. I could go on and on. The church, in particular the Catholic church, is an evil organization, that has nothing much in common to do with the man they claim they follow. The whole thing is based on lies, beginning with the fact that it was founded by Jesus- not so.

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• Look Arken, you confuse me with someone who gives a **** how Catholics these pope worshipping, blood drinking, superstitious hoopleheads.* If they want ot live under Republican rule the rest of their lives, there’s nothing I can do or say. I’m certainly not interested in wasting any of my time on this earth convincing them otherwise. Nor in censoring my own opinions in the hope of not offending them. Anyone who is offended by my opinions is welcome to turn the page.

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Being Catholic is adhering to a set of beliefs, just like being a Republican. No one is born Catholic, that’s why they have confirmations. Adults can choose their own belief systems and at some point they must take responsibility for their choices. The Catholic church is a force for evil in the world, no different than the KKK, the Republican Party, or the Westboro Baptist Church.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kos learned everything about the Catholic Church from theologians like “StAnastasia.” (quotes to distinguish the poster from a beloved saint)

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Whoever wrote the piece was full of hate.

I think he sat in front of me for 11 hours on an airplane yesterday…the guy exuded annoyance because the rest of us shared his space…

 

[rlg94086]

He has a 47% approval rating, which really shocks me…and Bush had similar approval ratings at this time in the process and he obviously won re-election.

George H W Bush had higher ratings at this time in '92. How did that work out?

A lot depends on the economy between now and then. Indicators show that Obama may be in luck, since the economy should improve this year. However, timing and spin are everything.

 

[seekerz]

Do you see how subjective your definition is?

Not true at all. Conservatives have the highest rates of charitable donations and giving of their time and labor.

The Republican rep in our state wants to stop abortions of Down’s Syndrome babies by mandating that doctors give positive outlooks for the life of their child, rather than the “Sorry, but…” He is being opposed by those who worry that mothers might feel guilty about deciding to have an abortion anyway.

Subjective is good, when the standard is what someone would want for themselves. I believe that is also the Biblical standard.

Not sure what charitable donations have to do with according people their God-given dignity. People can give to charity or proverbially, “deliver their bodies to be burnt” and still despise the recipients; that much is pretty clear to me.

Your Republican rep is attempting a good thing. Might I assume his community is behind him in committing to embrace and value people with Down’s Syndrome? That’s probably as a good a definition of dignity as any: showing people that they are valued as much as anyone else…

 

[seekerz]

In other words, you believe conservative Catholics are racists as well. An extraordinarily bigoted position, if that’s what you intended.

Did I say that? I clearly - very, clearly- stated my position based on my observations. I do believe that Santorum et al. would not say those things if they did not expect them to find resonance among some of their listeners. Unlike them, I tend not to think about people in terms of monolithic groups all dancing to some piper’s tune. As a matter of fact, I consider myself pretty conservative, and a Catholic to boot…What individual people are in their hearts is entirely a matter for them to reflect on.

 

[1voice]

Reading the CAF political forum has only confirmed my suspicions regarding the Far Right.

I used to think that MAYBE folks really felt that way but I really didn’t know- but now I know they do.

I never spent any time on conservative sites, or any time on right wing media in general, but thanks to CAF I see the pernacious and shocking views of the far Right laid bare.

Yes, I have seen shockingly cold and intellectually vacuos ideas presented. The most unsophisticated and dishonest notions have been presented with a wink and a coloquial drawl.

And I should vote for this? THIS should capture my conscience. Please!

Its ugly around here.

I have talked to quite a few liberals … I have found that they all collapse into an editorial similar in its lack of anything other than emotional content.

 

[1voice]

gallup.com/fvideo.aspx?i=H5WWIzp90Mw-Sm2xw5NZkgaa​

Worth considering. I think with all the fighting we have going on in the GOP primary process, Obama remains the favorite to win next November.

He has a 47% approval rating, which really shocks me…and Bush had similar approval ratings at this time in the process and he obviously won re-election.

We will see how things look after the GOP gets a firm candidate, but right now it does not look very good. Sadly.

Further complicating this is the fact that Romney looks like the likely candidate and I am guessing he will not poll any higher than McCain, so the election will be tighter, but will more than likely end with the same outcome as the last election.

With the pain this nation has suffered, Obama’s approval should be in the 30s, the fact that it is so high really tells the tale for the next election since so many people just do not blame Obama for the nation’s troubles.

usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/01/09/poll-americans-2-1-fear-obamas-reelection

US News is not by any stretch a conservative source…

When it comes to how Americans view President Obama going into the new year, there appears to be very little spirit of Auld Lang Syne. Instead, according to the new Washington Whispers poll, many voters aren’t forgetting what they dislike about Obama and want him out of office.

In our New Year’s poll, when asked what news event they fear most about 2012, Americans by a margin of two-to-one said Obama’s reelection. Only 16 percent said they fear the Democrat won’t win a second term, while 33 percent said they fear four more years.

 

[seekerz]

Well, okay, so Romney, at least, did not deny the existence of the poor. One assertion refuted for at least one candidate so far.

I have, myself, been dead broke in my life, and more than once. I have, at times, owed far more than I owned. I have been without work on one occasion. Never did I consider myself “poor”, and why? Because I had skills I figured I could put to use and I was not afraid to go knocking on doors until I found work, or start my own business. I was not afraid to do without until my own labor resulted in improvement. Never did it occur to me to identify with some kind of “underclass”. Sounds to me like Romney has aspirations for what we think of as “middle class” economic status for virtually everyone.

Romney is obviously saying the availability of jobs makes the difference for most people, though he says he is not against a “safety net”. I don’t know what more you could reasonably ask of the man, and based on the information provided, I don’t see how you can condemn him. I’m not even sure you DO condemn him.

This was the post I really signed on today to respond to because I didn’t have the time yesterday…

Not sure how you refuted anything. Romney was speaking very plainly when he said that he didn’t consider a middle class person who had fallen into poverty a poor person. I got the context and what I got apparently is different from what you did, but never mind…Romney sure clarified a few things for me yesterday about his stance on job security/unemployment and their natural consequences such as loss of income and poverty!

Why should people who give what their bosses consider poor service get a hearing, a warning or a chance to improve when there are so many unemployed? Fire them at will or whim or whatever…

youtube.com/watch?v=dBOqLxzGTx8

 

[seekerz]

No he didn’t. You want him to have been characterizing black people in order to fantasize that he’s a racist, but that’s not what he did. It is not even clear that he “almost” said “black”. He was talking about poor people, and that message was positive, whether he intended to talk about poor blacks or not.

And what’s wrong with the message that it’s better for poor people, black or otherwise, to have jobs than to have handouts? What’s wrong with that? That was his message. Speak to the message, not the bogus innuendo.

You post one ten second clip and characterize the man with it. Obviously, J.C. Watts and other blacks have no problem with Santorum.

Yes, yes, we know. It’s Democrat strategy to characterize Repubs as racist. Old story.

The Repubs write their own story. Why do they pick on black people then cry foul when it’s pointed out, and how on earth can a person of the stature I have come to appreciate, defend that?

 

[rlg94086]

Why should people who give what their bosses consider poor service get a hearing, a warning or a chance to improve when there are so many unemployed? Fire them a will or whim or whatever…

youtube.com/watch?v=dBOqLxzGTx8

Nice work taking things out of context. You should apply at Huffpost or Daily Kos…

Regarding Ridgerunner’s post, you obviously don’t see the distinction between being broke and being poor. Hitting the poverty level can be a temporary blip. I’ve been there recently. I was under the poverty line in 2009, when I switched careers took a minimum wage job (commission only with min wage as a worst case - economy sucked, so I was at minimum wage most of the year). I’m still with that company and now a manager doing fairly well. I was broke, but I wasn’t poor at any time during the transition.

 

[seekerz]

No he didn’t. You want him to have been characterizing black people in order to fantasize that he’s a racist, but that’s not what he did. It is not even clear that he “almost” said “black”. He was talking about poor people, and that message was positive, whether he intended to talk about poor blacks or not.

And what’s wrong with the message that it’s better for poor people, black or otherwise, to have jobs than to have handouts? What’s wrong with that? That was his message. Speak to the message, not the bogus innuendo.

You post one ten second clip and characterize the man with it. Obviously, J.C. Watts and other blacks have no problem with Santorum.

Yes, yes, we know. It’s Democrat strategy to characterize Repubs as racist. Old story.

Just need to add that a positive message does not begin by telling people your negative views of them, which is exactly what Santorum did i.e. recipients of money taken from other people - a wording which in itself has implications regarding dishonesty, greed and ambition.

 

[seekerz]

Nice work taking things out of context. You should apply at Huffpost or Daily Kos…

Regarding Ridgerunner’s post, you obviously don’t see the distinction between being broke and being poor. Hitting the poverty level can be a temporary blip. I’ve been there recently. I was under the poverty line in 2009, when I switched careers took a minimum wage job (commission only with min wage as a worst case - economy sucked, so I was at minimum wage most of the year). I’m still with that company and now a manager doing fairly well. I was broke, but I wasn’t poor at any time during the transition.

I can see the difference between being broke and being poor - my vision is 20/20 as far as both of those conditions. I simply do not see: “falling into poverty” as equivalent to being broke.

I do take the full context of Romney’s remarks: his political party and their talking points which have circulated several places (including this board) for months, his actual words and the flippant manner in which they rolled off his tongue…that’s context enough for me.

 

[Robert_Bay]

He has a 47% approval rating, which really shocks me…and Bush had similar approval ratings at this time in the process and he obviously won re-election.

Bush was at 60% in Jan 2004 he dipped to 47% by the end of Jan 2004 then recovered somewhat. By election time he was in the low 50% range. see:
gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

Gallup has Obama steady in the low to mid 40s for most of the year. Different tragectory. Obama can possibly overcome this and gain ground. I am not sure how.

 

[rlg94086]

I can see the difference between being broke and being poor - my vision is 20/20 as far as both of those conditions. I simply do not see: “falling into poverty” as equivalent to being broke.

Okay. I guess you haven’t experienced it. When you go from $120k/year to minimum wage, you’ve fallen below the poverty level. If you’ve burned through your savings and don’t have enough to pay your bills, you are broke. They often happen at the same time.

seekerz:

I do take the full context of Romney’s remarks: his political party and their talking points which have circulated several places (including this board) for months, his actual words and the flippant manner in which they rolled off his tongue…that’s context enough for me.

Do you? What was the context of the clip you posted? Whom was he gleeful about firing?

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Repubs write their own story.

Sounds to me like you’re the one trying to write the Republicans story.

You have no idea what’s in people’s hearts. You just broadbrush us as bigots.

How very unbigoted of you.

Why do they pick on black people then cry foul when it’s pointed out, and how on earth can a person of the stature I have come to appreciate, defend that?

So if Jesse Jackson complains the blacks are downtrodden by whites, that’s ok. Just white people are not allowed to do it.

As a percentage of their race:

Who is most affected by the “anti-poverty” programs in this country?

Who has the most children out of wedlock?

The homeless mothers shelter where I volunteer has one white or Latino mother for every ten African-American women.

You can’t fix a problem running away from the facts.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Just need to add that a positive message does not begin by telling people your negative views of them, which is exactly what Santorum did i.e. recipients of money taken from other people - a wording which in itself has implications regarding dishonesty, greed and ambition.

It’s the GOVERNMENT that is taking the money and redistributing it. THAT’s the problem.

 

[johnnykins]

My Momma taught me that it was not proper to discuss politics, religion or money in polite company. What say we all share our financial statements to make this thread really complete!

Of course, Momma’s dead… and I’m not sure this is polite company, anyway.

 

[RACJ]

Right. I think many people outside CAF at least probably don’t blame Obama entirely for our nations troubles. They remember the mess he inherited. And they don’t blame him for everything and then at the same time not give him any credit when there is any good news. Economically the nation has a long ways to go but I heard the other day no incumbant has not been reelected when the unemployment rate was TRENDING downward. Not sure if that’s true or not but that’s what I heard. It seems to have more to do with the trend, not the actual rate. And of course this wk the trend was down.

I think too he recently has been convincing more voters that the GOP Congress has been unwilling to work with him. And while it’s of course been done, add to the mix that it’s not the easiest thing to defeat an incumbant, and Obama definitely has a chance. Bush’s popularity was waning by the time 04 came around and he eeked out a win over John Kerry.

I think it’s going to be another close one this yr. The American electorate remains polarized. Many people actually like President Obama personally too. So I’m not certain the views espoused by the majority here are necessarily representative of the American electorate on the whole. Could go either way.

 Tragically, you are right. Many people outside CAF have bought the meme that Obama inherited a "mess", and has done"his best". Well, people are easily duped. How many people know that BHO SUED Citibank in Chicago to FORCE them to give unconscionable, foolish loans to minorities? The Bush administration tried 17 times(!) to get Congress to investigate Fannie's and Freddie's  economy-smashing buy-outs of bad loans, but they were charged with racism at every turn. 
 Personally, I would give Bush a D overall for his Presidency. But he is a decent man, and Obama is angry and arrogant, and his agenda will destroy our economy for generations, maybe forever. 
 This great polarization has been brought about by leftists feeding into the comfortable and seemingly plausible, (but in reality, destructive) mentality that poor people don't have a chance in America, and therefore are *entitled* to everything they have for nothing. If a Democrat today campaigned on the slogan "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what YOU can do for your country", that candidate would receive 0%. Even in it came from an exhumed JFK. :o Rob

 

[Ridgerunner]

Did I say that? I clearly - very, clearly- stated my position based on my observations. I do believe that Santorum et al. would not say those things if they did not expect them to find resonance among some of their listeners. Unlike them, I tend not to think about people in terms of monolithic groups all dancing to some piper’s tune. As a matter of fact, I consider myself pretty conservative, and a Catholic to boot…What individual people are in their hearts is entirely a matter for them to reflect on.

Oh. Well it doesn’t apply then.

You said: “…In addition, it is my opinion that this is a replay of the old political game of blowing the right whistles to whip up the aptly named base.”

That sounded like a broad-brush suggestion that the “base” would be “whipped up” by what you took to be racist rhetoric. If so, that would have been a bigoted statement as regards conservatives who, after all, would be Santorum’s “base”.

But it is good to know that was not the intent.

 

[RACJ]

My Momma taught me that it was not proper to discuss politics, religion or money in polite company. What say we all share our financial statements to make this thread really complete!

Of course, Momma’s dead… and I’m not sure this is polite company, anyway.

 Unfortunately, the left has taken advantage of the civility that used to exist, and has used the media, schools and popular culture to whitewash what is good about our history, Constitution, nuclear families and our Christian faith. And not many Americans can see through the incessant propaganda. 
 So, SOMEONE has to speak the truth, even if it offends some people who are playing by the old rules. :ouch: If you haven't noticed, it is the radical LEFTISTS who are always in our faces, and they are the first to start crying crocodile tears about lost civility when anyone stands up to challenge them. Rob