Three Principals For Honoring Your Husband

[AngryAtheist8]

This reminds me of Kinder, Küche, Kirche (i.e. children, kitchen, church).

It was an idea the Nazis promoted in Germany when they were in power.
You can read more about it here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche

Dear Serap,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It may not be fashionable to say this in the eglatarian times in which our lot is cast, but for a woman to be a mother and have a career is most unsatisfactory.

Indeed, it would be most beneficial to society if married women ceased to be involved in the world of work and concentrated on devoting themselves exclusively to the needs of their husband and children. Contrary to the warped thinking of radical femenism, there is nothing inferior or undignified in being a ‘homemaker’, for this is to be engaged in the divinely ordained role of motherhood and to find true fulfillment. St. Paul wanted women to assume this divinely ordained role of rearing godly offspring and managing a home (see I Titus 2: 4-5) and many of us believe that family stability and happiness would be greatly improved were more women to submit themselves exclusively to motherhood. The enormous pressures of simultaneously holding down a job and being a mother are considerable indeed, but completely unnecessary, if only spouses were prepared to accept a more modest income and standard of living. Sadly, many modern families are not prepared to do this and are greedy for gain at the expense of a stable family life. Children often suffer as a result.

Dear sister, I appreciate that modern society does make it extremely difficult for a woman to be devoted exclusively to motherhood, with the husband being the sole breadwinner. Nevertheless, it is not impossible, provided that spouses are prepared to make sacrifices and content themselves with a more simple lifestyle. True, many do insist that both must work, simply to ensure that the basic utility bills can be settled and they keep up mortgage repayments. Even ordinary living can be an arduous business nowadays, but I think that Catholic men and women need to urgently rethink what are their priorities and ask themselves what things are really important in life, especially if they enjoy a comfortable and affluent standard of living as a result of them both being employed. Even if only the husband went out to work, they would probably still be much better off than those in receipt of government handouts, such as the the workless or the long term sick. Thus perhaps many need to get a proper perspective and view things with a sober Christian mind.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[thewanderer]

No.

Which one are you saying no to? Or are you saying no to both? Surely you would at least agree that if somebody says something and it is taken the wrong way that it is being misunderstood? And that it would be a good thing to attempt to understand what they actually meant?

The reason I brought up that second point is in hopes that you would be willing to listen to the churh’s clarifications on her teachings and to try to understand what she intends to teach rather than what some radicals claim that she teaches. I can assure you the church is not ok with the suppression of women or with anyone treating them without the proper respect they deserve.

 

[Portrait]

ryecroft:
Dear ryecroft,

Codial greetings and a very good day.

The reason, dear friend, why the wife should relinquish her career and dovote herself to motherhood, is because that is her proper sphere ordained by God. Indeed, it by a humble acceptance and submission to this role that she fulfills her true destiny.

Notwithstanding, the gender confusion of roles nowadays, a woman should gratefully receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4,5) and the husband should proudly be the breadwinner and supporter of his family. That, dear friend, is normal family life according to God’s intention for mankind. Thus let the women be “workers at home” undertaking their domestic duties wholeheartedly and lovingly, being totally devoted to both husband and children. This is an honourable and important task, irrespective of what our post-modern society says, and should not be declined in favour of selfishly pursuing a career outside of the home.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Serap]

Yes.
People being forced to submit is not the same as people willing submitting to some greater authority (such as men and women who join the marines and submit themselves to military discipline).

Heart4Home,
This guy just said it for me

 

[Serap]

Dear ryecroft,

Codial greetings and a very good day.

The reason, dear friend, why the wife should relinquish her career and dovote herself to motherhood, is because that is her proper sphere ordained by God. Indeed, it by a humble acceptance and submission to this role that she fulfills her true destiny.

Notwithstanding, the gender confusion of roles nowadays, a woman should gratefully receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4,5) and the husband should proudly be the breadwinner and supporter of his family. That, dear friend, is normal family life according to God’s intention for mankind. Thus let the women be “workers at home” undertaking their domestic duties wholeheartedly and lovingly, being totally devoted to both husband and children. This is an honourable and important task, irrespective of what our post-modern society says, and should not be declined in favour of selfishly pursuing a career outside of the home.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

This contradicts what Pope John Paul II said in his “Letter to Women”. Google it. It’s a beautiful letter.

I prefer to follow the teachings of the late Pope John Paul II.

Thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. We don’t agree, but you are very polite and it’s very much appreciated.

 

[Serap]

judcargile got banned today. That’s why he’s no longer contributing.

he was an interesting character

 

[Portrait]

This reminds me of Kinder, Küche, Kirche (i.e. children, kitchen, church).

It was an idea the Nazis promoted in Germany when they were in power.
You can read more about it here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche

Dear AngryAtheist,

Cordial greetings and avery good day. Hope all is well.

Except that the paradigm of which I speak is derived from Sacred Scripture, a good source, and is the God ordained role of motherhood. We need, dear friend, to distinguish between things which essentially differ in their whole ideological standpoint.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[severus68]

All I’m saying is that what feminists state that they stand for is the recognition of equal dignity between men and women. This is in and of itself a good thing. So just because a certain group of people take this principle and apply it badly doesn’t mean that the principle itself is bad. I freely admit that I am a feminist because all that being a feminist means is desiring men and women to be treated with equal dignity. I also think it is wrong to put pressure on women to work outside of their homes, that doesn’t deny the fact that its wrong to pay men and women different amounts for the same job. So, as I’ve said, some people use the principle of feminism, that men and women have equal dignity and should be treated accordingly, and apply it in a way that fails to accomplish this. How does that mean that feminism is in and of itself a bad thing?

Well said. However, there is just one point , what is the difference between being equal and having equal dignity?

 

[severus68]

How is saying that the man/husband is like God and the woman/wife is like the mere* Church* an expression of equality?
In any argument between God and the Church, God is right/more important by definition.

Exactly!

 

[thewanderer]

Well said. However, there is just one point , what is the difference between being equal and having equal dignity?

I don’t think there is any real difference. However, I have seen the term ‘being equal’ used more often to encourage the eradication of any difference between men and women whatsoever, so I prefer to use ‘equal in dignity’.

 

[severus68]

Which commandment would that be exactly? I don’t remember there being a “as wife thou shalt submit unto thy husband…” type of commandment -
and with all the crud I’ve done in my life, I’m amazed God still listens to me - so while I like the idea of God being angry at someone that would hurt a woman/his wife - I don’t think it’s any of our place to say that God will or won’t listen to someone’s prayers - If God hearing our prayers was based on track records, few of us would be on speaking terms with God. Obviously if God were NOT slow to anger we’d all be in a much worse situation (referring to Him not just being reactionary)

If a husband is truly sacrificing and loving the wife, then there should be NO need to say that wives need to submit - as has been mentioned, there would be ‘mutual’ submission - one spouse doing all they could to make the other spouse more comfortable, happier - more loved and taken care of. This was mentioned from a time over 2000 years ago when women literally had no choice BUT to submit to their husbands or fathers. I THANK GOD we no longer (at least in America) live in a society where this is acceptable. If you truly love your wife or husband as I have mentioned - I can’t really imagine a time where there SHOULD be a situation where the man would have to ‘take the lead’ and make a decision that went against his spouse. I’m not saying you have to agree on everything but if the love was like that then no one should be playing the trump card of submission. I agree - submission can be a good thing (example in bed - or as so many on here call it ‘the marital embrace’- but that’s not just for the wife).

God Bless
Rye

 

[Portrait]

This contradicts what Pope John Paul II said in his “Letter to Women”. Google it. It’s a beautiful letter.

I prefer to follow the teachings of the late Pope John Paul II.

Thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. We don’t agree, but you are very polite and it’s very much appreciated.

Dear Serap,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response and for refering me to JPII ‘Letter to Women’, which I have now read.

It is not quite clear in the ‘Letter to Women’ to whom JPII is refering. It seems, dear sister, that he is referencing single women who work, since he has mentioned ‘mothers’ and ‘wives’ separately. If this is the case then I agree, for I accept that a single women must work and earn her living until and if she enters into holy wedlock. However, once she has married and has children, then it is desireable that she is, to use the biblical phraseology, a “keeper at home”, and on this St. Paul concurs with me. Moreover, there is no compelling reason to think that St. Paul’s counsel in the Pastoral’s is culturally bound and no longer relevant. Have never read of any orthodox Catholic commentator who has suggested this, but perhaps some have.

God bless and thankyou for your courteous response, dear sister.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[severus68]

I don’t think there is any real difference. However, I have seen the term ‘being equal’ used more often to encourage the eradication of any difference between men and women whatsoever, so I prefer to use ‘equal in dignity’.

What do you mean by “the eradication of any difference between men and women whatsoever”? I am really interested in knowing what you mean by this.

 

[thewanderer]

What do you mean by “the eradication of any difference between men and women whatsoever”? I am really interested in knowing what you mean by this.

I mean putting pressure on women to work and have a career because if they don’t they aren’t “contributing to society”. I don’t mean that women can’t or shouldn’t work. I completely realize that there are women who find fulfillment in their career and for whom it is a good thing to work. But women shouldn’t have pressure put on them to make sure they go out and earn a living as if doing otherwise means they are somehow not being fulfilled.

 

[heart4home]

Heart4Home,
This guy just said it for me

Well if you look to a self-proclaimed “Angry Atheist” to explain your position on your Catholic Faith…

 

[Portrait]

I mean putting pressure on women to work and have a career because if they don’t they aren’t “contributing to society”. I don’t mean that women can’t or shouldn’t work. I completely realize that there are women who find fulfillment in their career and for whom it is a good thing to work. But women shouldn’t have pressure put on them to make sure they go out and earn a living as if doing otherwise means they are somehow not being fulfilled.

Dear thewanderer,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It is the whole radical femenist ideology that makes women feel that they are unfilled if they are not a part of the workforce. Moreover, this warped thinking has a tendency to speak disparragingly of the role of mother and wife and it does not accept that marriage is the bedrock of society. This is because, dear sister, it has a fanatical and unhealthy obssesion with equality and a woman’s right to self-determination at all costs.

Women who are homemakers, dear sister, are making a tremendous contribution to society, inasmuch as they are providing stable homes for their children where they are always on the scene and available. This is surely something that will yeild beneficial results in the lives of children as they develop and will help them to grow up to be well-adjusted adults, with little or no emotional disturbances. Whilst there are manifold reasons for behavioural problems in young adults, it admits of no doubt that a working mother who is hardly present in the formative years of her children can have a negative impact upon them.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Dear ryecroft,

Codial greetings and a very good day.

The reason, dear friend, why the wife should relinquish her career and dovote herself to motherhood, is because that is her proper sphere ordained by God. Indeed, it by a humble acceptance and submission to this role that she fulfills her true destiny.

Notwithstanding, the gender confusion of roles nowadays, a woman should gratefully receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4,5) and the husband should proudly be the breadwinner and supporter of his family. That, dear friend, is normal family life according to God’s intention for mankind. Thus let the women be “workers at home” undertaking their domestic duties wholeheartedly and lovingly, being totally devoted to both husband and children. This is an honourable and important task, irrespective of what our post-modern society says, and should not be declined in favour of selfishly pursuing a career outside of the home.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Would you say that this largely describes your worldview when it comes to women?:

Sacred Scripture clearly teaches that God gives men and women different roles in the Church, the family, and society. Men are intended by God to be teachers and leaders in the Church, the family, and society. Women should not have any kind of teaching role over adult men. Women should not have any kind of leadership role over adult men.

Women should not be political leaders. In politics, a woman should not be President or Vice President or Senator or Representative or Governor or a State legislator. A woman should not have any elected or appointed political position with authority over men, because it is contrary to the teaching of Scripture. A woman should not be Judge in any court of law, because courts have authority over men.

This passage is often rejected by Christians, because they are following the ideas of their culture rather than the ideas of Christ. Women sometimes say that marriage is a “50-50 partnership,” but such is not the teaching of Christ. A woman who seeks power over her husband, who fights with him for control of the family, will ruin her marriage and her family. A wife sins against God if she rejects her husband’s authority over her or if she seeks to have authority over him.

Women should not be Lectors at holy Mass. Women should not read the Scriptures aloud to the faithful at Mass. Women should not distribute holy Communion at Mass. Women should not speak at the time of the homily, not even to describe some worthy work of mercy in which they are involved. It is shameful in God’s eyes for a woman to have any such role of leadership or teaching at holy Mass and at any time in the Sanctuary.

Moreover, women should not be in charge of leading or administering a parish, even one which lacks a pastor. Women should not be on the parish council, for this is a leadership role which assists the pastor, much as the Twelve Apostles assisted Christ.

Source:
catholicplanet.com/women/roles.html

 

[AthenaC]

The reason, dear friend, why the wife should relinquish her career and dovote herself to motherhood, is because that is her proper sphere ordained by God. Indeed, it by a humble acceptance and submission to this role that she fulfills her true destiny.

Would you mind clearing something up for me?

~8 years ago, my husband abandoned me. I was homeless with a baby in Fairbanks, Alaska, in October. (By the way, this is when winter begins, and it was already -20F.)

What was my “proper sphere ordained by God” at that point and beyond?

 

[ryecroft]

Dear Serap,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response and for refering me to JPII ‘Letter to Women’, which I have now read.

It is not quite clear in the ‘Letter to Women’ to whom JPII is refering. It seems, dear sister, that he is referencing single women who work, since he has mentioned ‘mothers’ and ‘wives’ separately. If this is the case then I agree, for I accept that a single women must work and earn her living until and if she enters into holy wedlock. However, once she has married and has children, then it is desireable that she is, to use the biblical phraseology, a “keeper at home”, and on this St. Paul concurs with me. Moreover, there is no compelling reason to think that St. Paul’s counsel in the Pastoral’s is culturally bound and no longer relevant. Have never read of any orthodox Catholic commentator who has suggested this, but perhaps some have.

God bless and thankyou for your courteous response, dear sister.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

So if this were the case then there would be no point of women even going to college? because in the end, the majority would be mothers - which although is a very difficult job does not require a degree. So should we be saying to women (like in America and the UK after the second world war) that since there are men that need jobs they should step aside so they can work and ‘bring home a pay check’ instead of a woman? You’re very polite and hey, if this works for you, then wonderful - but I will NOT bring my Daughter(s) or God Children up believing that she only need work until she lands a husband and begins pumping out kids and that men shouldn’t stay home and take care of the kids if she has a God given talent. I wouldn’t want to be part of a Church that demanded it either - if that’s the kind of life you want or wish we were more like I think the Amish Church instead of the Catholic Church might be a little more up your alley. Don’t mean to sound harsh but that’s really what it sounds like you’re desiring or believe we should be aiming for (simpler life, women having kids and staying home to bring them up - single women working until they land a husband -)You responded about comments on JPII’s talk in China on e -You mentioned two passages from the Bible These texts were written when women had NO choice what they could do - this was a time when there were slavery and obviously it was accepted (if you go down to 2Titus 9 St. Paul even talks about how slaves should act-he says nothing against slavery) - there were only a couple of professions a woman could go into (midwife, prostitute and there is an occasional mention in some archaeological records of some herbalists/wise women)-we think of this being a time when one person could work and support a family but if you read about life back then for the average family, that mother of 5 kids -or however many -might also be out cutting wheat or gathering foods or raising foods to sell -it was a time when very few kids went to school all day after the age of 5 (because it was expensive but they also needed those kids to be working along side the adults – my point is that we can’t just pick and choose Biblical texts and quote them and say ‘this is what St. Paul said should be 2000 years ago so this is how it needs to be now’ - because if you do, there are going to be an awful lot of things like slavery and women being in ‘submission’ to their husbands -(I’m still trying to figure out how a woman who is submitting and lacking much of a back bone is supposed to illustrate the Word of God but we have to remember that this was St. Paul writing this and many Biblical scholars - have mentioned or agree that he was at the very least a tad bit misogynistic. He may have been and is ‘St. Paul’ but he was human and had some very definite prejudices. This combined with the views of women of the day (remember women could be stoned for just the look of impropriety - IF her husband were to say the word - )- you say motherhood it is a woman proper ‘spehere’ - ‘ordained by God’ - are you saying this because St. Paul mentions this in the Bible? Because if this is your reasoning, I can get a whole list of things he mentions that the Church would not condone today (not Protestant not Catholic - whatever Christian sect) -I’ve already mentioned one - slavery. So we can’t have it both ways. Either we accept that things were different and expectations and roles get redefined. As I mentioned I’m acquainted with three Catholic couples where the wife works and the husband stays home with the kids (in one case the husband does some work from home - but you get the message)- the kids are lovely and well adjusted and even begin brought up with good examples in the Catholic faith.
God Bless
Rye

 

[severus68]

I mean putting pressure on women to work and have a career because if they don’t they aren’t “contributing to society”. I don’t mean that women can’t or shouldn’t work. I completely realize that there are women who find fulfillment in their career and for whom it is a good thing to work. But women shouldn’t have pressure put on them to make sure they go out and earn a living as if doing otherwise means they are somehow not being fulfilled.

Oh, thanks for clarifying. I agree with that, absolutely.