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fantasy_forever
Guest
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A289rcSSPXBuddhist.html
so, the SSPX (acording to TIA) are making concesions to Buddhism.
so, the SSPX (acording to TIA) are making concesions to Buddhism.
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BrendanD
Guest
TIA is The Onion of Catholicism.
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pnewton
Guest
Is that like the Rutabaga of Rastafarianism?
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ncjohn
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Hesychios
Guest
I take it then, the object is to have a good laugh at these stories?
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almightyservant
Guest
From the picture, it looks like what a regular church would be like in asia if money was an issue. There are no pews and other furniture proper for a church. Asians and people of other cultures sit like that when there aren’t enough chairs. In addition, it isn’t abnormal for asians to sit on the floor. Also, It doesn’t exactly look like a buddhist form of sitting. Lastly, why is there a need to make such a speculation? Is the a buddhist statue on an altar in the front?
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Hesychios
Guest
I don’t see any Buddhist statues or decorations of any kind 
“You can observe that the chapel has neither chairs nor kneelers and pews,”
I don’t know if this is an attempt at humor or not, but pews and kneelers are not traditional for Roman Catholic churches, although they are common today. For well over 1,000 years chairs were the exception for common worshipers, although they were often available up front to the benefactors of the parish, the lordly class and successful merchants. Old people would lean on the wall, lean on their walking sticks, sit on the floor or sometimes use stools in the back or against the wall.
So of course for most people, most of their lives, that means standing through the Mass, with kneeling right on the floor for those who are able.
There is actually a theology associated with the use of pews, and it is not necessarily suitable Catholic theology.
“You can observe that the chapel has neither chairs nor kneelers and pews,”
I don’t know if this is an attempt at humor or not, but pews and kneelers are not traditional for Roman Catholic churches, although they are common today. For well over 1,000 years chairs were the exception for common worshipers, although they were often available up front to the benefactors of the parish, the lordly class and successful merchants. Old people would lean on the wall, lean on their walking sticks, sit on the floor or sometimes use stools in the back or against the wall.
So of course for most people, most of their lives, that means standing through the Mass, with kneeling right on the floor for those who are able.
There is actually a theology associated with the use of pews, and it is not necessarily suitable Catholic theology.
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Cluny
Guest
Did it occur to TIA that just maybe they were not through furnishing where they were worshipping yet?
And as far as “sitting in a Buddhist position,” there are only so many ways the human legs and feet can fold up when sitting on the floor–and some people don’t have all these options available.
I know many Orthodox monasteries where it is the custom to sit on the floor from time to time.
TIA does nothing but gripe and point fingers.
And as far as “sitting in a Buddhist position,” there are only so many ways the human legs and feet can fold up when sitting on the floor–and some people don’t have all these options available.
I know many Orthodox monasteries where it is the custom to sit on the floor from time to time.
TIA does nothing but gripe and point fingers.
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Silas_Barnabas
Guest
These other TIA articles (like one about a buddhist statue resting atop a tabernacle with pagan scripture resting alonside the bible in St. Peter’s church in Assisi) are quite alarming. Please clarify: is this a serious organization, and are these real pictures?
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Cluny
Guest
TIA is about as serious as cancer, but it’s their own disease. Don’t take anything they say seriously.
TIA is never happy unless they are pointing their fingers, and rejoicing in iniquity–or even perceived iniquity of other people.
I’ve seen several of their photos that were either deliberately mislabelled, or they didn’t understand what was going on and gave it the worst possible interpretation.
They are clearly NOT traditional, despite their name.
Charity, forbearance, and not accusing or condemning others are all traditional, too.
TIA is never happy unless they are pointing their fingers, and rejoicing in iniquity–or even perceived iniquity of other people.
I’ve seen several of their photos that were either deliberately mislabelled, or they didn’t understand what was going on and gave it the worst possible interpretation.
They are clearly NOT traditional, despite their name.
Charity, forbearance, and not accusing or condemning others are all traditional, too.
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Tsuwano
Guest
As far as I know there is no such thing as “a Buddhist way of sitting.” There is a way to sit on tatami mats, which is obviously what is used in this particular chapel as flooring. It has nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with practicality.
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Cluny
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And may I add–doubtless cultural as well? It’s simply the Japanese thing to do.
As St. Ambrose said to St. Augustine, “When in Rome…”
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WhollyRoamin
Guest
Bah.
The SSPX rents halls in SE Asia. This was just in a meeting room where there are no other pews.
You should stop reading Tradition in Action.
The SSPX rents halls in SE Asia. This was just in a meeting room where there are no other pews.
You should stop reading Tradition in Action.
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Cluny
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I had a feeling it was something like this.
I’ve been to Divine Liturgy in some pretty odd places, where the church had to be carried in suitcases and cardboard boxes, and many times had to make do with makeshifts.
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EnchantedEve
Guest
I take great offense at the tone some are using on this thread, especially since it appears they are not taking this seriously.
I am personally acquainted with and friends of the leadership at TIA, including Dr. Horvat and Mr. Guimaraes. They are wonderful people, extremely friendly, and edifying to encounter. I can say I am in many ways a better person because of them.
This being said, I do not always agree with them. Occasionally, I think they put too heavy a European slant on some practices, and this is case in point. While I personally think the traditional manner of kneeling in prayer would be better, I do not think we should therefore conclude sitting in this other manner is bad. I also think they read a little too much into the Holy Father wearing sunglasses.
However, just because they read a little too much into somethings does not mean they are completely wrong on other matters. Their analysis of current culture and the post-Vatican II situation is very interesting, and I find their Church history articles very enlightening. Any informed Catholic should take any writing with a grain of salt, and do his own research. The writings of TIA are no different. But to dismiss them out of hand is not being very charitable or being intellectually assertive. If people have specific beefs with TIA, share them and let them be discussed. Otherwise, mockery should not play into our discussions regarding people who cannot defend themeselves here.
I know TIA is often very concerned about SSPX, which is why they may have included this as an item of interest to consider.
I am personally acquainted with and friends of the leadership at TIA, including Dr. Horvat and Mr. Guimaraes. They are wonderful people, extremely friendly, and edifying to encounter. I can say I am in many ways a better person because of them.
This being said, I do not always agree with them. Occasionally, I think they put too heavy a European slant on some practices, and this is case in point. While I personally think the traditional manner of kneeling in prayer would be better, I do not think we should therefore conclude sitting in this other manner is bad. I also think they read a little too much into the Holy Father wearing sunglasses.
However, just because they read a little too much into somethings does not mean they are completely wrong on other matters. Their analysis of current culture and the post-Vatican II situation is very interesting, and I find their Church history articles very enlightening. Any informed Catholic should take any writing with a grain of salt, and do his own research. The writings of TIA are no different. But to dismiss them out of hand is not being very charitable or being intellectually assertive. If people have specific beefs with TIA, share them and let them be discussed. Otherwise, mockery should not play into our discussions regarding people who cannot defend themeselves here.
I know TIA is often very concerned about SSPX, which is why they may have included this as an item of interest to consider.
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EnchantedEve
Guest
Yes, these are real pictures, and yes, they are a very serious organization. They love to answer correspondence if you write them with any questions.
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Cluny
Guest
Would they answer the following questions?
- Why did they say that a tabernacle was shaped like a phallus, when it was clearly the traditional beehive shape?
- Why did they say that Pope John Paul II was kneeling and venerating the tomb of Mahatma Ghandi, when it’s obvious that he was NOT kneeling?
- Why did they say that a photo showing Blessed Mother Theresa clearly rapt in prayer was showing her worshipping a statue of Buddha?
- Why does a photo showing Pope Benedict XVI holding his hands joined (a posture not uncommon in even the Latin liturgy) mean that he was secretly advancing the Buddhist agenda (whatever that is)?
There’s a saying: Photos don’t lie, but captions can sure mislead.
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EnchantedEve
Guest
Oh, I agree with you. They do often go over the top in some of their photo analysis. I already said this. They does not make some of their other analysis less compelling.
I do have a request though: Could you post links to these pictures, so everyone knows what were talking about and so were discussing the same ones?
I think in one area though, I at least see where they have a point. The Holy Father has picked up on a manner of holding his hands together that resembles the form of greeting traditionally used by the Dalai Lama, the other “His Holiness.” This may be merely a coincidence, But the manner in which it is done has not been used as a form of greeting in the West, or by Catholic clerics. It would be interesting to know why he has picked up this practice. If you can cite an area where this practice existed in the Church as form of greeting, and not prayer, I would be interested to forward the info.
This may be one of the photos you mean:
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A122rcBuddhistRatzinger.htm
If we are looking at the same photo of Pope John Paul II at Gandhi’s tomb, either the bishops standing behind him are very tall, or he is kneeling!
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A063rcGhandiTomb.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A067rcMadreTeresaBudha.htm
If this is the photo of Mother Teresa you speak of, than that certainly does look like her in front of a statue of Bhudda kneeling. From what I understand the other was a close up of the same event. Why she was doing this I cannot speculate.
This is what TIA replied to another enquiry on this matter:
*Mr. S.O.,
When you pray together with Buddhists in a Buddhist temple during a Buddhist ceremony in a recollected position under a statue of Buddha, you are for all purposes publicly worshipping Buddha. This is what Mother Teresa did in the mentioned picture.
The picture was disseminated by her religious congregation, therefore there is no risk that it was altered. We are not discussing her intention, but exposing the picture and analyzing her visible, public attitude. Therefore, this is not a matter of defamation, as you accused.
Your affirmation that you are “quite sure that she wasn’t worshipping Buddha” is entirely subjective. You are certainly entitled to have this opinion, but it has no apologetic value. Perhaps you would benefit from reading the reply we made to a similar objection about Mother Teresa praying to Gandhi.*
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A196rcJesuitShivaLinga.htm
I think they may be reading too much into this photo of the tabernacle. However, if you look closely at the tabernacle, I also noted the symbols of the Sacred OM and another Hindu symbol whose name I cannot recall. So I fear this does not improve the photo any.
I hope this gives some clarity to the matter. Remember, everything with a grain of salt!
L
Like
Guest
These people are nothing but a HATE SITE of the current Catholic Church! Especially Dr. Horvat!
NO THANKS! I’ll stand with Catholic Culture, the Popes and the REAL Latin Rite Catholic Church!!!
NO THANKS! I’ll stand with Catholic Culture, the Popes and the REAL Latin Rite Catholic Church!!!
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EnchantedEve
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I am afraid I do not follow you. Can you share with us why?These people are nothing but a HATE SITE of the current Catholic Church! Especially Dr. Horvat!
NO THANKS! I’ll stand with Catholic Culture, the Popes and the REAL Latin Rite Catholic Church!!!
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