Ticked off Catholic looking for loving correction

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Shylah

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Hi folks,

I’m ticked off at both my husband and the Catholic Church, and I need some advice/guidance/scolding by people who are loving and wise, but not forum-weenies. Frankly, I hate forums, because people LOVE to argue and are often more interested in making themselves look good with their clever words than actually helping people. This may or may not be the right venue, but because our priests are too busy to help Catholics in crisis, and our Catholic Counseling Center is actually manned by Protestant Counselors (wth?! o.o)… I don’t know where to turn or where to even begin.

Story: I loved the Catholic Church, and was thinking about becoming a nun till I met my husband. I take (or at least USED to take) the faith VERY seriously, and I met this wonderful man who was really serious about honoring Christ through family and Church devotion. Thing is, when we started going to Church together, he would nitpick at all this stuff about the modern Mass. That is, there was all this abstract art that had the stations of the cross looking like some 5th grader was playing in the mud, or the music was like we were in a rock concert, or the priest was saying stuff about “well maybe the story of the fish and loaves was just a parable”…

But the REAL problems came when we went through our marriage prep class, and the material seemed SO shallow… there was hardly anything about covenant relationships, praying together, etc, and all this stuff about rules… and they made us take some scantron test called FOCCUS which asked irritating questions and we never got to just have nice talks with the priest about how to be a good husband and wife to each other to honor Christ…

So now I HATE going to Mass. Mass seems shallow, and it seems like no one cares about anyone outside of their immediate families or cliques, and it seems like it’s all about rules without relationships.

I’ve tried talking to my new hubby (whom I love dearly) about this, but the best he can offer me is that we are going to hell if we leave the Catholic Church (which I don’t want to do). I’ve thought about the Orthodox Church (since that is where I started as a kid… till my anabaptist mom shoved me into a fundamentalist church that REALLY messed me up)…

So I don’t have a priest to talk to… I suppose I could go complain to the Protestant counselors employed by the Catholic Counseling Center (imagine how well THAT conversation will go)…

AUGGGGHHHH

What am I supposed to do? I’m mad at my hubby for getting me to focus on the pimples of the Catholic Church, I’m mad at the Catholic Church for making our wedding prep all about rules without REAL guidance on how to honor Christ through our marriage…

I’ve gone to confession like 6 times in the last 6 months, all stating that I missed Mass and want to go back, but when it comes time, I get so mad that I can’t even step into the Church.

cries
 
Shylah said:
Hi folks,

I’m ticked off at both my husband and the Catholic Church, and I need some advice/guidance/scolding by people who are loving and wise, but not forum-weenies. Frankly, I hate forums, because people LOVE to argue and are often more interested in making themselves look good with their clever words than actually helping people. This may or may not be the right venue, but because our priests are too busy to help Catholics in crisis, and our Catholic Counseling Center is actually manned by Protestant Counselors (wth?! o.o)… I don’t know where to turn or where to even begin.

Story: I loved the Catholic Church, and was thinking about becoming a nun till I met my husband. I take (or at least USED to take) the faith VERY seriously, and I met this wonderful man who was really serious about honoring Christ through family and Church devotion. Thing is, when we started going to Church together, he would nitpick at all this stuff about the modern Mass. That is, there was all this abstract art that had the stations of the cross looking like some 5th grader was playing in the mud, or the music was like we were in a rock concert, or the priest was saying stuff about “well maybe the story of the fish and loaves was just a parable”…

But the REAL problems came when we went through our marriage prep class, and the material seemed SO shallow… there was hardly anything about covenant relationships, praying together, etc, and all this stuff about rules… and they made us take some scantron test called FOCCUS which asked irritating questions and we never got to just have nice talks with the priest about how to be a good husband and wife to each other to honor Christ…

So now I HATE going to Mass. Mass seems shallow, and it seems like no one cares about anyone outside of their immediate families or cliques, and it seems like it’s all about rules without relationships.

I’ve tried talking to my new hubby (whom I love dearly) about this, but the best he can offer me is that we are going to hell if we leave the Catholic Church (which I don’t want to do). I’ve thought about the Orthodox Church (since that is where I started as a kid… till my anabaptist mom shoved me into a fundamentalist church that REALLY messed me up)…

So I don’t have a priest to talk to… I suppose I could go complain to the Protestant counselors employed by the Catholic Counseling Center (imagine how well THAT conversation will go)…

AUGGGGHHHH

What am I supposed to do? I’m mad at my hubby for getting me to focus on the pimples of the Catholic Church, I’m mad at the Catholic Church for making our wedding prep all about rules without REAL guidance on how to honor Christ through our marriage…

I’ve gone to confession like 6 times in the last 6 months, all stating that I missed Mass and want to go back, but when it comes time, I get so mad that I can’t even step into the Church.

cries
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The only thing to focus, pray, and study on right now, IMO, is whether or not the CC is the true spokesman for God- the authentic Church proclaiming the authentic gospel. Pimples will always be there-or, in some cases, people just seem bent on finding them. But this is the case wherever humans are involved. We honor God by worshiping *Him-*not by looking at the person in the pew next to us or even the priest up front-they all have pimples somewhere. OTOH the Church and her members always needs reform. We should get involved in improving the negatives we encounter.
 
I know all this… really I do… but what is the point of ANY involvement of the Church is their is no Covenant relationship with each other? I’m tired of going to a Church where literally no one would care if I died the next day.

Eastern Churches aren’t like that. They act like a family. What am I supposed to believe?

Roman Catholicism has more rules and less family. Orthodox churches (yes have LOTS of customs) have less “rules” and more family.

What am I supposed to believe?
 
Although I’ve never been married, so who am I to give advice?, I don’t see how you can have a good Christian marriage without God at the center of it.

Either get involved in your parish so that you get beyond the idea of cliques and people not caring or find another parish, one with reverently celebrated Masses and friendly people. But I don’t think that’s the basic problem.

You confessed missing Mass. That’s only a symptom of the anger and other emotions that are influencing you.

A good resource would be the Marriage Encounter program in your diocese. I recommend it. I think you might like it and the support it gives in how to have a Christian marriage and communicate well with each too. You and your husband are Catholics in a covenant relationship and Marriage Encounter supports that.

Perhaps it would help if you and your husband would ask permission to go attend the RCIA sessions in your parish. Not that you would be in RCIA but you could focus together on the truths of the faith and have interaction with others in your parish.

You know, if the best reason for staying Catholic that your husband can offer you is to avoid going to hell, it sounds like he as well as you need the instruction and fellowship that the RCIA meetings would give you. I’m a member of the RCIA team in my parish and our pastor has permitted people who are already Catholic to attend for just this reason.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
Although I’ve never been married, so who am I to give advice?, I don’t see how you can have a good Christian marriage without God at the center of it.

Either get involved in your parish so that you get beyond the idea of cliques and people not caring or find another parish, one with reverently celebrated Masses and friendly people. But I don’t think that’s the basic problem.

You confessed missing Mass. That’s only a symptom of the anger and other emotions that are influencing you.

A good resource would be the Marriage Encounter program in your diocese. I recommend it. I think you might like it and the support it gives in how to have a Christian marriage and communicate well with each too. You and your husband are Catholics in a covenant relationship and Marriage Encounter supports that.

Perhaps it would help if you and your husband would ask permission to go attend the RCIA sessions in your parish. Not that you would be in RCIA but you could focus together on the truths of the faith and have interaction with others in your parish.

You know, if the best reason for staying Catholic that your husband can offer you is to avoid going to hell, it sounds like he as well as you need the instruction and fellowship that the RCIA meetings would give you. I’m a member of the RCIA team in my parish and our pastor has permitted people who are already Catholic to attend for just this reason.
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I’ve tried getting involved in various parishes… that’s where I got my idea that the western church is all about cliques. >< That was before the FOCCUS disaster though… that’s what REALLY made me angry… and every since then I have been avoiding people in the western church because I don’t want to take my anger out on them.

The whole marriage prep thing led me to become Eastern Catholic (which apparently I should’ve been anyway since I received the Initiation Sacraments in the Orthodox Church as a baby). My husband and I love the Eastern Catholic Church, but our new home is too far away from any Eastern Catholic Churches. We both loved our old church and miss it dearly. Roman rite seems cold and shallow now. I know Christ in the Eucharist is still Christ in the Eucharist, and believe it or not, I love daily Mass in the Roman Church. But we are so used to solemn Masses… sunday Mass seems like a rock concert with the drums and bands that are so loud you can’t even hear the people sing… I know this is part of our problem.

I think you are right that a marriage encounter is a good thing, but what if it’s just as shallow as the FOCCUS marriage prep thing? I’m tired of hearing about NFP when the whole concept offends me (using all this technology to thwart God’s will to have kids)… esp when I am freakin’ post-menopausal. It’s a bureaucracy that doesn’t give a dang about people as individuals with real souls and real needs… we’re just mass produced through the “system”. Why should the marriage encounter be any different?

You know, I used to teach RCIA… and confirmation class… at a confirmation retreat, I taught seminar on the Holy Spirit for 5.5 HOURS, to a bunch of TEENS, and the PARENTS were so enthralled that they wanted me to teach the WHOLE confirmation class the following year AND require their kids to go through it.

WHAT am I supposed to believe? I have no spiritual friends, no spiritual director, no one to counsel me without the canned responses that are apparently helpful to 99% of the Catholics on the planet… just not me. ><
 
I’m sorry to be unable to offer concrete advice. But, if I don’t actually know what I’m talking about, I should keep my mouth shut.

However, what I can offer, is to keep you in my prayers. I will pray for you every day and I hope that your situation improves! :hug1:
 
I am so sorry that you are going through this and I wish you could offer you a hug. What I hear you saying is that you miss community. Do you have any Secular Franciscans in the area? If you click my link below that may be something to take a look at as it offers the community that you may be missing. It is a Secular Order so yes you can be married, no you don’t live in community, but yes it is a vocation with a 2-4 year formation, and it is focused on community based on living the Gospel according to St Francis of Assisi in a Secular way. (By secular I don’t mean that in the negative connotation - I mean that in the not stuck in a convent connotation.) I would invite you to look at this way to maybe enrich and form the love of your faith back to the way it was before you were married. God bless. Pax et Bonum,
 
sniffles thanks you two… I really needed that. maybe I can find a third order of something here in the area. I admit I haven’t looked into it since we moved here.

The worst part about this is that I miss my relationship with God so very much. Been reading a lot of Job lately. I am really struggling between being mad at God for not giving me help, not protecting me from the hideous evil that caused me to move in the first place, and just plain missing him.
 
I am coming from a different perspective. I have gone through much persecution to become a Catholic and be able to recieve the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

You asked for some advice, so it it is. Go to mass early and spend some time in prayer. You are not there for what you can get, you are there for Jesus. Speak to him, be honest. Ask him to bring you closer to him. Ask our Blessed Mother to help you, she loves bringing people to her son. Take time to really listen to the words of the mass. Most of the mass is scripture, let the word on God penetrate your heart. Try not to focus on anyone else.

Visit your church during the week and sit in front of the tabernacle with Jesus or go to Eucharistic Adoration. Spend time with Jesus. Ask him to bring your heart closer to his. Sounds like you are hungry for our Lord and am not being satisfied with the worldly things. Once you get a conversion of heart, some of the worldly things will be easier to ignore.

I will be praying for you.
 
Thank you Beth, you are so right of course. There are two issues going on: 1) the “pimples” that my husband called my attention to, and granted that is shallow and stupid to get hung up on. I think part of my problem is that now I am so sensitive to them because I wonder how my husband is reacting internally whenever there is something that he’s complained about before. But the bigger thing is this: 2) what is the point of having a relationship with Christ if I can’t share that with anyone? What’s the point of living at all if I have lost my ability to love others? (please no one freak out … I’m not thinking of doing anything stupid… really, Job was saying similar stuff, so it isn’t about threatening doing something stupid, honest)
 
Shylah said:
So now I HATE going to Mass. Mass seems shallow, and it seems like no one cares about anyone outside of their immediate families or cliques, and it seems like it’s all about rules without relatiionships.

cries
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I seriously could have written this myself. This was the sole reason that we decided to stop attending our Catholic church and started attending an Episcopal one.

I was looking for more than a priest (however good intentioned) simply spouting off Scriputre to me during Mass without teaching anything. And I wanted a Father who would know me and my husband. I wanted to see people I knew each Sunday, people that I considered friends and had grown in my Faith with. We never got any of this at our old church. We walked in and we walked out each week. Nothing more, nothing less. (And believe me, I tried getting involved- we were in the Young Marrieds group but felt very different because we didn’t have 2 or 3 kids, I was a member of the Womens Club but they’re weren’t very active at all, and we volunteered for events. Even though, the church was so big, I still never knew many names. To our priest, I was a Jane adoe.

At our current church, our Father knows us both by name. We are in the Young Marrieds group and we are involved in the Life Groups that meet to discuss the weekly sermon each week. I attend the Womens Bible Study each week where they utilize actual studies that apply to women’s lives, like Beth Moore and such. Its not just a bunch of women trying to disect the Bible, which was so formal and boring.

I don’t say this to try to sway you by any means. But I feel that even though Im not going to the right church, Im getting more out of it and have grown so much more closer to God than I ever did by being a “Sunday only” Catholic. So I completely understand how you feel.

I pray to God that the CC starts recognizing that fellowship is so important in faith! God made us to be communal creatures who love to take part in relationships. I grow closer to God when I have someone in my life I can relate to and talk about God with. Why does the CC not place as much importance on this than other churches? I don’t get it either.
 
Ok, this is why I am becoming so cynical about the western Church. It seems no one CARES about experiencing a REAL Convenant relationship with each other as a FAMILY with CHRIST as the HEAD. In other words, CHRIST is the Head, WE are the Body… and yet we don’t ACT like a family.

Eastern Catholicism is COMPLETELY different. You show up at a church for the first time, and someone is inviting you over for dinner that evening… you will be swarmed with people after Mass… the kids will be crawling all over you as you’re chatting on the lawn… NO ONE leaves early because the Mass lasts as long as the priest decides it does, which could be anywhere up to 3 hours depending on the feast day… it’s just SO different…

WHY are western rite people so isolated from each other???
 
Maybe you could try a Latin Mass in your area? They tend to have less abuses than Novous Ordo Masses*, are more ‘down to earth’, and they’re ancient- literally. I don’t think there will be much in a TLM that your husband can nitpick :o

So be sure to look into a Latin Mass if one is offered nearby. I’m sorry that’s the only advice I can give 😦

*I said tend to have less. I’m not excluding the possibility that a TLM can have abuses.

PS- I seem to nitpick the modern Mass a lot too, and I’m criticized for it sometimes. I know where your husband is coming from- the rock music, clapping music, not serious homilies, hand holding during the Our Father, EMHC’s- it all drives me nuts too, and that’s why I’ll be attending a Latin Mass in the fall. I’m not excusing your husband’s behavior because it really shouldn’t be happening (unless there’s an obvious abuse going on that he sees). All I’m saying is that I’m the same way; I’ve been there.

Hang in there. Things will get better. 🙂
 
Shylah said:
Ok, this is why I am becoming so cynical about the western Church. It seems no one CARES about experiencing a REAL Convenant relationship with each other as a FAMILY with CHRIST as the HEAD. In other words, CHRIST is the Head, WE are the Body… and yet we don’t ACT like a family.

Eastern Catholicism is COMPLETELY different. You show up at a church for the first time, and someone is inviting you over for dinner that evening… you will be swarmed with people after Mass… the kids will be crawling all over you as you’re chatting on the lawn… NO ONE leaves early because the Mass lasts as long as the priest decides it does, which could be anywhere up to 3 hours depending on the feast day… it’s just SO different…

WHY are western rite people so isolated from each other???
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I feel your pain. It’s not like this at all parishes. Some, but not all. One answer is “the spirit of Vatican II”. I cringe when I hear that…
 
Have you looked into whether there is an Extraordinary Form Mass offered in your area???
 
Jen, thanks for your story… I am really glad you found a church home. 🙂

I would never leave Traditional Church to join a Protestant one just because I was raised Protestant and the theological chaos that ensued was driving me crazy. Everyone wanted to be my pope. And the thing is that women HATE arguing because it strikes at the heart of relationship, so the Protestant church was especially bad for my faith. At least Catholics don’t have argument at the center of their life, and I don’t say this lightly. I can’t tell you how much I have been jerked around Protestants because they wanted me to believe as they (as individuals) believe. Sola Sciptura has made too many people believe they have a special secret knowledge of the Bible and they told me I needed to believe what they believed, or I wasn’t being faithful to Christ. And of course no one agreed and all argued with each other. It was tearing me apart.

Christ wants us to act like a family, and the Catholic Church is supposed to act like one to honor Him. The Eastern Church does, and I just don’t know what’s going on with the Western Church…
 
Cooldude, Apogano, good suggestions… we did attend Latin Mass for Palm Sunday, and the proper solemnity was there, and it was really nice. Unfortunately, the family environment was even more lacking for some reason. 😦

Have you folks every attended an Eastern Mass? It’s really wild… First of all, there are no instruments. Everything is sung, even the readings. Our Church was all in English, and the singing was SO interesting… it’s a rhythm back and forth between the priest and the parish. The priest sings, we sing, the priest sing, we sing, and so forth, for so much of the Mass. Everything is so extraordinary… nothing worldly to focus on… no programs or projects… just for those few moments in time, when time itself seems to cease, there is just nothing but prayer and worship and a perpetual offering between our church and our Saviour. It is truly like Heaven on Earth. No distractions. The love between the people and the priest and the Saints and the Trinity is just so pervasive that for the first few weeks of my attending there it was so hard not to openly weep the whole time…
 
I’m assuming that the Latin Mass in your area is at a different parish than your regular one. If that’s the case, maybe you should switch parishes completely (i.e., register at the Latin one and everything). Go there on a regular basis and do things outside of Mass. If a school is attached to it you could help with school functions (maybe you could help organize special events at the parish, like a Eucharistic procession, a Rosary club, or 24/7 Adoration if they don’t have that stuff already). Like other posters said, get involved and the family atmosphere will follow.

Btw, I said help organize those things. Don’t take the responsibility to do it all yourself. Then you’ll just be miserable. Let someone else do it. Then jump on. Also, hang around after Mass and talk to the priest a little. Stock up on questions if you have any, or just tell him to have a nice week and make small talk for a few minutes. Be outgoing and make friends with him. 👍
 
Shylah, I completely understand. That I why, although we are attending, I have not joined or ben baptized into the Episcopal church. I hold too dearly the faith I was raised in. However, I was NOT getting anything out of it. 😦

Find me a CC where you’re a name and not a number and has a multitude of fellowship opportunities and I’m there!! 🙂

And the way you describe the Protestant church breathing down your neck and forcing their “truths” on you is exactly what I experienced at Catholic church. 😦 Our current church is the exact opposite of that.

I don’t know how long we’ll be here because I want to baptize any child we have in the Catholic Church, but I feel we’re home for now. Although there is one church id like to try to see how they are. I would just feel guilty leaving the current friends I’ve made relationships with.
 
I used to know someone who was a melkiate Catholic, which apparently is in communion, though I think it’s considered “conversion”

Also be aware that you may simply be in the wrong area of the country. southerenrs tend to be more friendly. You also should take a step back. Just enjoy Mass, even with the wrong things just as parent would do for a kid who dosnt know.

You could also try some non-agressive methods such as voulenteer things and even paid parish trips. It will take a year or so before people ease up…its just human nature. Protestants are welcoming but the disillusiment factor is there…I have known few protestant churches that weathered chnged and I know many who split. So you trade welcome for stability.
 
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