Tim Staples/James White Debate

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Does anyone know about this? Dr. White of Alpha/Omega Ministries, a Protestant group, claims that he twisted - up my old buddy Tim like a pretzel. My friends confirmed this, but said the debate wasn’t fair. They said Dr. White wrongfully used scripture and some arguementative techniques against Staples, so it was an unfair fight. Dr. White also claims victory over Fr. Mitch Pacwa and a few others (I think Mr. Keating as well, but don’t quote me on this). I am a huge Staples fan and was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Thanks and God bless.
 
I think James White claims to defeat anyone he ever debates whether he actually does or not. I am also a huge Tim Staples fan and would like to know if this debate really occured and the results.
 
Debates proves that one is better at “debating” than someone else. It proves nothing about truth. James White is the Champion at Straw Man arguments.
 
The thing that bothers me about these debates is that if you look closely enough, you can see Christianity self destructing. The only end result is cross accusations of “taking things out of context” “mis interpreting” “ignoring the obvious”… For 500+ years, Christianity had no external threat and we could infight without too much consequence. In a way, I am glad Islam is now posing a huge external threat, Christianity will either unite under what Christ instituted or it will crumble.
 
When was the debate? I have a hard time believing anyone could ‘twist him up like a pretzel’. He is too well-versed, articulate, and quick on his feet. I have a debate on tape where he and Jesse Romero debated 2 men (I can’t remember their names - I think they were from Calvary Chapel) on the radio and Tim and Jesse did so well that I was actually embarrased for the 2 other men.
 
debates prove nothing. you can learn something about both arguements but the truth oftens suffers and is hidden behind “style” or “technique.” everyone cheats at least a little…some far more than others. (cheating like lobbing a claim into the discussion to which the opponent cannot respond in the alloted time. this is especially valuable if he cannot respond at all.) they are ultimately unsatisfactory. i ignore them

i have seen debate tapes sold by both sides - each claiming victory :confused:
 
Admittedly, Fr Pacwa is not a debater, so his presentation was not strong.

Madrid did very well ( he had truth on his side)

Sungenis destroys White (5 times). Hmmm… no wonder White refuses to debate him any more.

Even Gary Machuta (no offense big guy) handled White in the debate on the deuterocanonicals.

Eventually it will be “White? who is White” He’s no white, he’s always wong!!
 
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SAINThoodSEEKER:
Does anyone know about this? Dr. White of Alpha/Omega Ministries, a Protestant group, claims that he twisted - up my old buddy Tim like a pretzel. My friends confirmed this, but said the debate wasn’t fair. They said Dr. White wrongfully used scripture and some arguementative techniques against Staples, so it was an unfair fight. Dr. White also claims victory over Fr. Mitch Pacwa and a few others (I think Mr. Keating as well, but don’t quote me on this). I am a huge Staples fan and was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Thanks and God bless.
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There was an debate on Justification versus Fr Pacwa online for free but the link is now dead. In that debate Pacwa took white behind the woodshed and had white grasping for straws, the problem was it was done in front of a protestant crowd in a protestant church and so they couldnt really vote/accept that Pacwa had clearly won.
 
I have found that John Ankerberg edits his video debates so that the key arguments for the Catholic position that prove the Catholic belief true and their beliefs false are not included in the presentation. One simply has to get that video “The best of Roman Catholicism” from his website to find out.

I am quite sure that James White does that also.

Ken
 
Tim Staples has debated White twice. First (1996) on sola scriptura I give the edge to Staples. Second (2000) on papal infallibility I give the edge to White, only because Tim didn’t deal with history in his opening statement. Tim did Bible and the debate was about history. This was July 2000. In October of that same year in Clearwater FL (I was there), Sungenis defeated White on papal infallibility (Peter/Bible, Zosimus, Honorius).

Although I totally disagree with his science, Sungenis does the best against White in theology debates: Justification (2000), Eucharist (twice 1999, 2003), Papacy (Oct 2000), and purgatory (2000 radio debate) I give the edge to Sungenis in each. Justification and Papacy he was particularly good.

BTW, I have all these debates up through 2003 or so (Real Player, MP3, and many more). Let me know in private Email which ones you want.

Phil P
 
Peace be with you!

I haven’t heard the Tim Staples vs. James White debates, but I have read about them. There is an apologist whose name escapes me at the moment…I believe his name is Phil something…who has a website I looked at one time. He had posted on there the results of some debate reviews done by impartial debate experts. These experts analyzed all of the debates that James White had with Catholics. The results were done with a point system and if I remember correctly, James White only was shown as winning three of the debates. Time Staples was either one or two of those debates. But like others have said, debates just prove who is the better debator and James White is a good debator.
Jimmy Akin handled White quite well in the Bible Answer Man debate that I have, especially the part about prayer to saints.

In Christ,
Rand
 
I’ve listened to a number of debate between White and a Catholic. He’s done well in some, not so well in others. Actually, his talk about Catholic Answers in what started me here and I have learned a lot. I am still Lutheran, but the debate in my own mind is between Luthernism and Catholicism. I don’t know if I will resolve it now or in heaven. 🙂
 
If you had 100 Catholics on one side of the room and 100 Protestants on the other, how many Protestants would say Staples won the debate? How man Catholics White?

They’re debates, they’re never won. In the end everyone goes home with the same convictions they came in with. 😃
 
I absolutely LOVE Fr. Pacwa…but I don’t see how he could win a debate…sometimes when I listen to him, just answering questions on open line live, he gets so tongue tied…

he is wonderful though.
 
Rand << He had posted on there the results of some debate reviews done by impartial debate experts. These experts analyzed all of the debates that James White had with Catholics. The results were done with a point system and if I remember correctly, James White only was shown as winning three of the debates. >>

Ah yes, the infamous

Official Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of Forensics

Yep White is not liked by the Committee. 👍

Phil P
 
Anyone heard any of the debates of Vin Lewis and James White?

I know he isn’t liked too well here as he is very aggressive and frequently makes comments about Karl Keating. I also think he steps over the line of charitability often but I have heard a debate of his recently and he clearly and concisely presented the Catholic faith and really pulled no punches.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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MrS:
Admittedly, Fr Pacwa is not a debater, so his presentation was not strong.

Madrid did very well ( he had truth on his side)

Sungenis destroys White (5 times). Hmmm… no wonder White refuses to debate him any more.

Even Gary Machuta (no offense big guy) handled White in the debate on the deuterocanonicals.

Eventually it will be “White? who is White” He’s no white, he’s always wong!!
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My jaw literally dropped when I read the transcript of the debate between Sungenis and White on the Assumption of Mary. Of all the topics that you would expect a Catholic to have difficulty with, this would certainly be one of them. But Sungenis DISMANTLED him and managed to crush Sola Scriptura in the process. I have the link at home. If you want it, PM me…

PHil
 
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Superstar905:
Debates proves that one is better at “debating” than someone else. It proves nothing about truth. James White is the Champion at Straw Man arguments.
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Great point.
 
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quasimodo:
debates prove nothing. you can learn something about both arguements but the truth oftens suffers and is hidden behind “style” or “technique.” everyone cheats at least a little…some far more than others. (cheating like lobbing a claim into the discussion to which the opponent cannot respond in the alloted time. this is especially valuable if he cannot respond at all.) they are ultimately unsatisfactory. i ignore them

i have seen debate tapes sold by both sides - each claiming victory :confused:
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I agree with your opinion on this. I’m not glorifying the debate itself, but just wondering if others knew about it. Thanks for the info. God bless.
 
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