Tim Staples/James White Debate

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

bene7:

If you had 100 Catholics on one side of the room and 100 Protestants on the other, how many Protestants would say Staples won the debate? How man Catholics White?

They’re debates, they’re never won. In the end everyone goes home with the same convictions they came in with.

Yeah, I’m not a big fan of the whole “win/loss” aspect given to debates of spiritual matters. The debates themselves are rather important if the intent is to spread the truth. I was just curious…didn’t realize how many would have so much feedback. I’ll sure come here often for any other answers. Thanks and God bless.

 

[Dorothy]

SAINThoodSEEKER:

Does anyone know about this? Dr. White of Alpha/Omega Ministries, a Protestant group, claims that he twisted - up my old buddy Tim like a pretzel. My friends confirmed this, but said the debate wasn’t fair. They said Dr. White wrongfully used scripture and some arguementative techniques against Staples, so it was an unfair fight. Dr. White also claims victory over Fr. Mitch Pacwa and a few others (I think Mr. Keating as well, but don’t quote me on this). I am a huge Staples fan and was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Thanks and God bless.

I once saw part of a debate with Dr. White and Father Mitch Pacwa, and I couldn’t help but notice that Dr. White did a lot of talking, and that Father Pacwa was interrupted every time he tried to speak, and he did not get a chance to explain. It was frustrating to watch.

 

[dal11]

I can’t believe no ones mentioned Jimmy Akin vs. James White on the bible answer man. I thought Jimmy Akin did a great job.

 

[PhilVaz]

Dorothy << I once saw part of a debate with Dr. White and Father Mitch Pacwa, and I couldn’t help but notice that Dr. White did a lot of talking, and that Father Pacwa was interrupted every time he tried to speak, and he did not get a chance to explain. It was frustrating to watch. >>

Then you need to get the original Pacwa vs. Walter Martin debate from John Ankeberg show, where Pacwa did all the talking and interrupting. That’s the Pacwa I like. Actually that is still the best Pacwa debate, his first one (from 1986 or 87). He has mellowed over the years, but his first debate with White (1991) on justification he didn’t hold back punches. His later ones I agree he tended to let White walk over him (on sola scriptura, papacy, priesthood, etc). But you mean during the cross-exam periods, since all those debates with White they both were allowed opening statements, and one or more rebuttals with no interruptions.

Its just that White really likes to prepare for these debates, unlike Pacwa who in his later debates with White tended to “wing it.”

Sungenis is one who prepares, so he tends to defeat White. Now what Sungenis needs is to debate a Catholic physicist on geocentrism, maybe Lawrence Krauss, just for my amusement. Not sure if he is Catholic, he did co-author an open letter to the Pope on evolution.

Phil P

 

[mercygate]

Speaking of debates, does anybody know where to find the Mitch Pacwa / Walter Martin debate from the ?? middle-to-late 80s?

 

[PhilVaz]

dall11 << I can’t believe no ones mentioned Jimmy Akin vs. James White on the bible answer man. >>

Goes without saying, actually it is Akin 2, White 0 since they also debated on “eternal security” issue. But those supposedly weren’t “debates” since they were back-and-forth radio debates.

But White is done with Catholics for now, it is on to the radical liberal critics like
Crossan and Spong, thank goodness! Walt Disney World in Orlando? Hey I might go!

mercy << Speaking of debates, does anybody know where to find the Mitch Pacwa / Walter Martin debate from the ?? middle-to-late 80s? >>

Yeah his name is PhilVaz and he has every debate ever recorded (up to about 2002, not the latest ones). Send private Email. You also might be able to get an edited version from John Ankerberg still. I have the original 4 videotape version, which was also edited, but not as much. For example they edited out the “call no man father” discussion, apparently Martin bought into that argument at the time.

Phil P

 

[jimmy]

SAINThoodSEEKER:

Does anyone know about this? Dr. White of Alpha/Omega Ministries, a Protestant group, claims that he twisted - up my old buddy Tim like a pretzel. My friends confirmed this, but said the debate wasn’t fair. They said Dr. White wrongfully used scripture and some arguementative techniques against Staples, so it was an unfair fight. Dr. White also claims victory over Fr. Mitch Pacwa and a few others (I think Mr. Keating as well, but don’t quote me on this). I am a huge Staples fan and was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Thanks and God bless.

bringyou.to/apologetics/a56.htm

Scroll to the bottom of the page.

 

[rfritch]

PhilVaz:

Rand << He had posted on there the results of some debate reviews done by impartial debate experts. These experts analyzed all of the debates that James White had with Catholics. The results were done with a point system and if I remember correctly, James White only was shown as winning three of the debates. >>

Ah yes, the infamous

Official Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of Forensics

Yep White is not liked by the Committee.

Phil P

 

[rfritch]

I think it is interesting to note that Mr. White has appealed the scoring on most of the debates he has lost. I don’t know if they were scored by the commitee mentioned here or by another one, but I read on another website where he wanted the debates re-scored. Of course, he wanted the scores to reflect he had won all the debates!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

thats debatable

Can someone send me the pages on Mattew 16 from Catholic Apologetics Bible – with the authors permission that is.

Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA

thanks

 

[MrS]

PhilVaz:

Sungenis is one who prepares, so he tends to defeat White. Now what Sungenis needs is to debate a Catholic physicist on geocentrism, maybe Lawrence Krauss, just for my amusement.** Not sure if he is Catholic**, he did co-author an open letter to the Pope on evolution.

Phil P

are you kidding, or is your brain revolving around your head:ehh:

 

[MrS]

Daniel Marsh:

thats debatable

Can someone send me the pages on Mattew 16 from Catholic Apologetics Bible – with the authors permission that is.

Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA

thanks

You can come over and borrow a copy… PM me

 

[PhilVaz]

MrS << are you kidding, or is your brain revolving around your head >>

OK, I guess Lawrence Krauss isn’t Catholic. Apparently he writes for Skeptical Inquirer and is a CSICOP fellow. I only knew about him from his open letter to the Pope (co-authored with Catholic biologists: Ken Miller, and Francisco Ayala), and his other TV appearances which I have recordings. Much other information on this page (which I just found) I need to check. Krauss is definitely not an “in your face” skeptic or atheist (like the Infidels.org). He asked a very sympathetic question on religion near the end of Ken Miller’s presentation recently at the Case Western Reserve Univ. Even if Krauss is an atheist, he would still make a good opponent of Sungenis on physics.

Phil P

 

[3tradcat]

Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of the Staples/Romero debate they had a few years ago? Thank you.

 

[PhilVaz]

<< Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of the Staples/Romero debate they had a few years ago? Thank you. >>

You mean the Staples/Romero “tag team” against Calvary Chapel people. Excellent radio debate. Staples/Romero did quite well. Other side was more Dave Hunt / Jack Chick / Alex Hislop style anti-Catholicism, so not as “sophisticated” as a James White debate. Available as 3 CDs and still sold through St. Joseph Comm. Or cassette version here. I have it. I think there were actually two debates with Staples/Romero tag team, both against Calvary Chapel people. I could be mistaken.

I don’t make available debates that are still publicly sold. Mine are all the old StraitGate and GreatForum (now defunct) debates that were publicly available, and some rare stuff I’ve encoded. Also Veritas.org is another great source for debates and talks (MP3 format). Mainly evangelicals there, a few Catholics, and some intelligent design folks.

Phil P

 

[Elzee]

3tradcat:

Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of the Staples/Romero debate they had a few years ago? Thank you.

This is the debate I was talking about in my earlier post … it is great. Tim and Jesse did an oustanding job of communicating the biblical basis of our faith.

 

[Elzee]

mercygate:

Speaking of debates, does anybody know where to find the Mitch Pacwa / Walter Martin debate from the ?? middle-to-late 80s?

I’d love to find this one too if anyone knows about it.

 

[PhilVaz]

Elzee << I’d love to find this one too if anyone knows about it. >>

Looks like Ankerberg still sells it. Scroll down a little, looks like video clips are online also. It might be a more edited version of the 4 videotapes I received in the late 80s (which total about 5 hours). Looks like they sell 2 videos, or DVD. But looks to be the same subjects: Justification by faith, papacy, purgatory, Mariology. There was another one on confession where they went back and forth on Tertullian and discussion of the Greek fathers. Pacwa came out ahead in that one, so maybe that’s why they don’t offer that portion.

Phil P

 

[Philthy]

Philthy:

My jaw literally dropped when I read the transcript of the debate between Sungenis and White on the Assumption of Mary. Of all the topics that you would expect a Catholic to have difficulty with, this would certainly be one of them. But Sungenis DISMANTLED him and managed to crush Sola Scriptura in the process. I have the link at home. If you want it, PM me…

PHil

OK OK! About a dozen of you have requested this link! Its from Sungenis’ Catholic Apologetics International website. Enjoy!

catholicintl.com/epologetics/dialogs/marysaints/bodily-assumption.htm

Phil

 

[Catholic_Dude]

PhilVaz:

I don’t make available debates that are still publicly sold. Mine are all the old StraitGate and GreatForum (now defunct) debates that were publicly available, and some rare stuff I’ve encoded. Also Veritas.org is another great source for debates and talks (MP3 format). Mainly evangelicals there, a few Catholics, and some intelligent design folks.

Phil P

So what happened to straitGate? Thats where the Pacwa justification show was listed and now its gone.