Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

[katherine2001]

I think the problem is twofold:

1. Some noncatholic christians believe catholics aren’t christian.
2. The same noncatholic christians waste their efforts on catholics, while ignoring the REAL nonchristians, i.e. muslims, jews, atheists, hindus, sikhs, JW’s, mormons, agnostics, …

This is exactly the problem. When you ask them why they are doing this, they will give you the drivel that they aren’t trying to convert Orthodox/Catholic (pick whichever one fits), but trying to make them better Orthodox/Catholics (which considering how little they know about either faith, how can that be possible?).

Another thing that bothers me is that sometimes the methods they use are rather underhanded, if not outright dishonest. A member of my parish is Native Alaskan. Most Native Alaskans are Orthodox (after all, we bought Alaska from Russia). Her father was the main elder on their island. Some Baptist missionaries came and asked if they could stay. He agreed to let them stay, but with the caveat that they were not allowed to speak to the children without an elder being present. My friend said that the missionaries were always trying to lure the children in and speak to them without an elder being present. Obviously, this went totally against what they had agreed to. It wasn’t all that long until her father knew that they weren’t keeping their end of the bargain because she started saying things that weren’t Orthodox teaching at all, and he sent them on their way. Unfortunately, some missionaries are willing to do whatever they have to do, some being very unChristian (in my opinion anyway) and not at all in line with Christ’s teachings.

I fought against Christianity for a long time because of some of the methods used. When I was in college, Campus Crusade for Christ was very active. They would try to lure people in by printing posters with very provocative questions about issues that college students were very interested in. The fact that it was Campus Crusade for Christ putting it on was in very tiny print at the bottom of the poster. Luckily, I read the very small print and did not go. If I had gone and been presented the Gospel, it would have turned me off and I might never have come to Christ. To me, it would have been better and more honest if the fact that Campus Crusade was putting it on should have been very prominent on the poster. It’s better that people come because they are really interested in learning about Christ rather than being tricked into coming to something that they would not have come to if they knew what it was really about.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Now I understand why people see Catholics as smug, superior, and condescending. For shame.

This sounds all too much like jealousy. Better to ask why other sects are excelling at what Catholics claim to want to do, rather than bash people who are, in fact, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned.

 

[CopticChristian]

One thing I do have to correct is the use of the words “there are a great number” as I do not have figures for that assumption. However, I have read articles pointing to this and talked to many people who used to refer to themselves as Christian simply because of the religion of their childhood. They confessed they never really had a spiritual connection with Christ.

That being said, I do not claim to have the knowledge of particular individuals and where they are spiritually. However, I would defer to the Holy Spirit to guide those who are searching to people who can help them which is why missionaries are always needed. There are lost souls everywhere.

Ok,

So just for clarity…tell me

Since you say that there are Christians but never really know Christ? How is it one person, say me, from your perspective can really know Christ…I can write letters to the Filipinos and let them know that this is how you really know Christ. Tell me how do you really know Christ?

You also say being a Catholic or Christian does not mean that they know the Lord like they should. Catholic or Christian you should know reveals that you believe that there is a difference and there is not. Your subconscious is speaking. But that aside tell me how do I know if I really know the Lord. I will write letters to the Filipinos and let them know how they can really know the Lord.

Simple questions…take your time and correct your thinking, writing and speaking…Catholic/Christian and Protestants Christian by their baptism…but go ahead…

 

[CopticChristian]

It seems as if this thread is taking a very nasty turn…people trying to find ways to harass Christian missionaries.

Tell me what is it you believe to be harassment? Harassment is to bother, to trouble, to annoy.

I have questions. Inquiry is not harassment. I want to know what they are preaching. Gaining knowledge is not harassment. I want to know what they think of the need to evangelize a Catholic population. Clarity is not harassment.

Tell me where you see harassment.

 

[CopticChristian]

Okay, question for Protestants and the liberally-minded Catholics.
Do you believe the purpose of Tebow’s dad is to make better Catholics or Orthodox out of the Filipino’s he encounters? Or to create more Baptists for his ‘mission’?

Help me know where and how you deteremined that Tebow is a Baptist?

 

[CopticChristian]

I love this news release “powerful Russian Orthodox Church”…gotta love the Orthodox…is this law still in effect…?

In 1997, the powerful Russian Orthodox Church praised the federal law, titled “On Freedom of Conscience and Religious Association,” for protecting people from the “cults and sects” that flooded into Russia following the collapse of the Soviet Union. In practice, however, the new law has been used against not only Hare Krishnas and Jehovah’s Witnesses, but also against mainstream Christian groups outside the deeply rooted Russian Orthodox tradition.

 

[CopticChristian]

I agree. put plainly in the Philippines most Catholics are Christians, or become Christians. but some do not. The Tebow’s, the Gordon Robinsons of 700 Club Asia and the 5%… are there for those people. A corner of the world should not walled off and those people left behind because Spain’s army once upon a time kept others away. There was a famous politician who got an annulment because although he went through the rituals he said he didn’t mean it. I don’t count the people who go through the motions and don’t mean it however if an alternative is not giving to him will he ever move beyond faking a ritual or will his seeking lead him to the large Ingelsia Ni Cristo or the microscopic in numbers Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses?

I also believe Bob Tebow disagrees with me

I love the subconscious. So if the Phillipines is mostly Catholic we can infer that there must be some sort of Catholic organization there and some sort of Catholic Church. You then believe as you have stated that the Tebow’s and the Robinsons…good old USA Protestants have to be brought in because whatever organization there is not adequate to fill the need of evangelization and needs their help.

Hey Tebow…yeah what…Robinson…have you seen the Phillipines…they aren’t entirely evangelized…they don’t know the Lord…they don’t know Christ…How many? Well 4Square Baby says about 5-10 %…what should we do…that is far away…do they have a Church there…yeah…80 plus percent Catholilc…so they have Churches…lets get a petition here in the USA and then send it to the head of the Catholic Christian Church and tell them that the island needs to be evangelized and we will do all we can to be sure that every Church in the Phillipines gets this letter…kind of like Paul ya know writing to tell them to get on the stick…yeah that would work…we could outline

Here is what you need to know so that they can Know Christ…OK…
and
Here is what you need to know so that they can get to know the Lord…OK

Sounds good…sorry about the football game…Oh yeah…sometimes God doesn’t give you what you want because sometimes humility is better than what you want…yeah…oh well OK…

 

[CopticChristian]

I think the problem is twofold:

1. Some noncatholic christians believe catholics aren’t christian.
2. The same noncatholic christians waste their efforts on catholics, while ignoring the REAL nonchristians, i.e. muslims, jews, atheists, hindus, sikhs, JW’s, mormons, agnostics, …

But how many Protestant communities marvel at the membership with “I used to be JW” or “I used to be Mormon” or “I used to be hindu”…by the way Bobby Jindal former Hindu is now Catholic, or “I used to be athiest”…I have been to too many Protestant services where the “I used to be Catholics” are paraded in front of me…trying to get me to see that there is hope for me…this is sikh…I mean sick…

 

[CopticChristian]

Since I do not have** first hand knowledge **of Bob Tebow’s mission then I can only make the assumption that he is led by the Holy Spirit to do what he does and where he does it. Generally that is how missionaries work in my own experience. I would also assume they are not literally grabbing people and forcing them to listen to them.

Not to worry. I have a wealth of experience in missionary work in the Phillipines, Honduras, Mexico, Colombia, People’s Republic and with that I can call them and ask them all the right questions…I will fill that void and give you first hand knowledge…

I speak “missionary” as well as I do other languages…just hold tight…

 

[Slinger]

Ok,

So just for clarity…tell me

Since you say that there are Christians but never really know Christ? How is it one person, say me, from your perspective can really know Christ…I can write letters to the Filipinos and let them know that this is how you really know Christ. Tell me how do you really know Christ?

You also say being a Catholic or Christian does not mean that they know the Lord like they should. Catholic or Christian you should know reveals that you believe that there is a difference and there is not. Your subconscious is speaking. But that aside tell me how do I know if I really know the Lord. I will write letters to the Filipinos and let them know how they can really know the Lord.

Simple questions…take your time and correct your thinking, writing and speaking…Catholic/Christian and Protestants Christian by their baptism…but go ahead…

I’m not really sure what you are asking that I have not already answered. Perhaps a Catholic example can better illustrate what I am saying. From what I have learned from these boards (and if I am wrong, correct me) a person can be baptized Catholic as an infant, however, if they live their life in mortal sin then their soul is in peril of going to hell. Just because they are baptized does not mean they are going to heaven from what I understand. Therefore, they are in need of help. They can “say” they are Catholic all they want but what does that get them if they do not have a change of heart. Does that help?

Also, I do believe that we all have been given Grace through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross because no man can ever do enough or be good enough.

 

[Slinger]

Not to worry. I have a wealth of experience in missionary work in the Phillipines, Honduras, Mexico, Colombia, People’s Republic and with that I can call them and ask them all the right questions…I will fill that void and give you first hand knowledge…

I speak “missionary” as well as I do other languages…just hold tight…

Good for you then! Once you find out this information what do you plan to do with it? Are you assuming that people on the CAF are donating funds to Bob Tebow’s missions and want to stop it? Or, to go back to the original intent of the post, is this an attempt to sway people from believing that Tim Tebow is someone that Christians should admire because you disagree with his father’s ministry?

I think the real issue is if you believe that non-Catholic missions are Holy Spirit inspired or if they are simply men who have something against Catholicism and doing missions for their own selfish purposes (whatever those could be).

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m not really sure what you are asking QUOTE]

Thanks for the effort. You seem to miss the point. You state you are a Christ follower and have pointed out reasons for Tebow. All I ask is for you to explain what it is you mean by your statements. Do not use Catholics in your discussion. You pointed out what you believe to be an example.

Slinger lives in a world of as you say “Christians”…Slinger sees these folks and has a notion about…Really knowing Christ & Really knowing the Lord…this is the reason you state for Tebow’s purpose that I should understand. Since I don’t understand and you have stated this…tell me

What are you assessing to say…“He/She knows the Lord” based on…or “He/She knows Christ and has a relation” based on…

Let me help you…
Someone is a Christian based on

1. Baptized as a Baby in the Trinitarian formula
2. Baptized as an adult after Catechesis
3. Baptized and makes an effort to follow Christ
4. Baptized and expresses their Faith through actions

That is about all I can do to assess…who they are, what they think, what they do…good or bad…is not for me to judge…you see I am unfortunately a Bible Christian…I listen to my Church that tells me that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ and since I like Paul…

1Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Now most of this is a rehash of the Council of Orange…I will post that if you ask…

I believe, based on the teaching of the Church that salvation is a work of God, through Christ start to finish.

On my own I can do nothing. I can’t even respond to God without God’s help. We believe we are saved by grace, through Faith, working in love. God’s grace is always sufficient. We have free will to accept or reject…any good we do is via the grace of God.

Let me know how you assess a relationship and knowing?

[/QUOTE]

 

[GaryTaylor]

All sounded good till last night.

All the hype managed to do is upset a 2-Time Superbowl Champ and MVP. To the extent of breaking a “few” Play-off records last night. Most TDs in one half, and most in a playoff game.

Tebow was tackled “in the backfield” 13-time’s before the Third Quarter ended. The Option ran for ZERO years. And his total passing yards was “28” at close to the end of 3-quarters with a 41-10 score. Apparently the 4th didn’t fair much better since only NE scored? I went to bed out of boredom!

The only masterpiece produced last night was by Tom Brady and his receivers along with the NE Defense.

SO MUCH for Tebow…see ya “next year” Perhaps the lesson here is you should save to talk till “after” the game.

OH… btw what religion is…Tom Brady? Hummm

And “NO” the sky is not Blue and the sun Orange because God is a Denver fan.

 

[CopticChristian]

All sounded good till last night.

All the hype managed to do is upset a 2-Time Superbowl Champ and MVP. To the extent of breaking a “few” Play-off records last night. Most TDs in one half, and most in a playoff game.

Tebow was tackled “in the backfield” 13-time’s before the Third Quarter ended. The Option ran for ZERO years. And his total passing yards was “28” at close to the end of 3-quarters with a 41-10 score. Apparently the 4th didn’t fair much better since only NE scored? I went to bed out of boredom!

The only masterpiece produced last night was by Tom Brady and his receivers along with the NE Defense.

SO MUCH for Tebow…see ya “next year” Perhaps the lesson here is you should save to talk till “after” the game.

OH… btw what religion is…Tom Brady? Hummm

And “NO” the sky is not Blue and the sun Orange because God is a Denver fan.

The Christians were thrown to the Lions…no Detroit lost…Ok it was a battle of Christians…well no…it is just a game…Tebow needs humility.

A story in the Boston Herald yesterday reads, “Tom Brady says God Doesn’t Value Him as a Quarterback.” And I’m genuinely thrilled at the suggestion.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m all for it when athletes, or anyone in a successful moment for that matter, gives God the glory. And I think the act of doing so is often misunderstood by the public as a way of saying, “See? God wanted us to win this game, and not the other team.” Not only is it not true, I really don’t think that most of the time the individual is saying that at all. Simply trying to reflect the spotlight onto One he or she acknowledges as greater.

That said, I love this quote from Brady that he gave in an interview with Esquire magazine: **“Look at the attention I get: It’s because I throw a football. But that’s what society values. That’s not what God values. He didn’t invent the game. We did. I have some eye-hand coordination, and I can throw the ball. I don’t think that matters to God.”/**QUOTE]

Do you think that Tom is talking about knowing the Lord and having a relationship?

 

[LightBound]

All sounded good till last night.

All the hype managed to do is upset a 2-Time Superbowl Champ and MVP. To the extent of breaking a “few” Play-off records last night. Most TDs in one half, and most in a playoff game.

Tebow was tackled “in the backfield” 13-time’s before the Third Quarter ended. The Option ran for ZERO years. And his total passing yards was “28” at close to the end of 3-quarters with a 41-10 score. Apparently the 4th didn’t fair much better since only NE scored? I went to bed out of boredom!

The only masterpiece produced last night was by Tom Brady and his receivers along with the NE Defense.

SO MUCH for Tebow…see ya “next year” Perhaps the lesson here is you should save to talk till “after” the game.

OH… btw what religion is…Tom Brady? Hummm

And “NO” the sky is not Blue and the sun Orange because God is a Denver fan.

Can’t say for sure what religion Tom Brady is practicing, but here’s what his** Dad is (and I don’t think we need to worry about him trying to convert Catholics to Evangelical Protestants!): catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=26642

Love how he commented that although he did feel a little disappointed over the circumstance of 3 of his grandchildren being born outside of wedlock, he loves them and are happy they are here…instead of being aborted! That’s pretty prolife if you ask me!

 

[JustaServant]

The Christians were thrown to the Lions…no Detroit lost…Ok it was a battle of Christians…well no…it is just a game…Tebow needs humility.

A story in the Boston Herald yesterday reads, “Tom Brady says God Doesn’t Value Him as a Quarterback.” And I’m genuinely thrilled at the suggestion.

 

[Slinger]

Slinger;8825516:

I’m not really sure what you are asking QUOTE]

Thanks for the effort. You seem to miss the point. You state you are a Christ follower and have pointed out reasons for Tebow. All I ask is for you to explain what it is you mean by your statements. Do not use Catholics in your discussion. You pointed out what you believe to be an example.

Slinger lives in a world of as you say “Christians”…Slinger sees these folks and has a notion about…Really knowing Christ & Really knowing the Lord…this is the reason you state for Tebow’s purpose that I should understand. Since I don’t understand and you have stated this…tell me

What are you assessing to say…“He/She knows the Lord” based on…or “He/She knows Christ and has a relation” based on…

Let me help you…
Someone is a Christian based on

1. Baptized as a Baby in the Trinitarian formula
2. Baptized as an adult after Catechesis
3. Baptized and makes an effort to follow Christ
4. Baptized and expresses their Faith through actions

That is about all I can do to assess…who they are, what they think, what they do…good or bad…is not for me to judge…you see I am unfortunately a Bible Christian…I listen to my Church that tells me that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ and since I like Paul…

but he learned it from Jesus.

Now I have the right to criticize and evaluate things. You may have noticed in all my postings I say nothing about Tebow and whether he knows the Lord, has a relationship with Christ or things that are between God and any human…all I want to know is what is it you are judging and why do Protestants appoint themselves to do what I have no right to do and do not do. I doubt you will see any Catholic/Christian do what you are proposing…questioning what relationship a person has with the Almighty…

In my time at CAF…I don’t like Radical’s mind…although it is a well preserved 16th century model…however I never question a relationship with the Lord or knowing the Lord. John NC has expressed an understanding of the Real presence that I can respect and understand. Contarini is a historian and I do not recall any dialogue concerning his relationship with God. Anna just invited me as a friend and as an Anglican I look at her postings and I have no desire to ask if she knows the Lord, has a relationship or whatever.

I don’t understand so many of the “just Christians”, “Christ followers”…believing that the idea of what is the proper relationship is to be assessed…

Tell me where in your walk, where have you read that it is your job, Tebow’s job to assess these issues and what are they…?

I don’t know if you know what the Catholic Church teaches and what I believe…I don’t know if you have read the articles of Trent…I believe, now I don’t know if you have researched what it is the Catholic Church teaches, since this is Catholic answers, it would be in your best interest to know what it is the Church teaches and then be able to say…based on your teaching…

Now most of this is a rehash of the Council of Orange…I will post that if you ask…

For the last time, seriously, I have never said I know what the measure is or that I personally apply a measure. Only an individual and God know if their heart is right. I don’t know how to state that any simpler. Frankly, my only interest in posting in the non-catholic religions forum is responding to questions that may be understood or considered with various viewpoints and understanding other viewpoints. Unfortunately, if you are wanting a back and forth debate with lots of copying and pasting you have the wrong person. I’m sure you don’t have malicious intentions and neither do I, but sometimes gaining a better understanding of the viewpoint you have of “just Christians” and “Christ followers” is not to go through an internet forum but to pursue relationships personally. If you don’t do that then you risk having a distorted viewpoint of others who believe differently than you.

 

[KathleenGee]

Slinger,

You have Protestants you know that are Christian right now but are not living a most exemplary life…hypothetically speaking…Tim Tebow’s dad must know backsliding Protestants but would rather target Catholics.

First of all, it appears he is assuming Catholics who are in the same place as his contemporaries are some how more in need of evangelization than Protestants.

What Coptic Christian is getting at is that our faith is all on different levels throughout our lives, and it is not up to us to judge someone’s state of soul by appearances…or think because they are not on fire for the Lord – outwardly – does it mean that they are less.

We have no right to prejudge other Christians and assume they are worse off than us, especially if they are Catholic. It is akin to the American concept you find here that Catholics and Christians are two different entities…we live with it all the time…

I have an in-law who will not allow me to mention my faith, but is wanting to control conversations and make everything positive and loving (I always try to be loving)…but it is aka Kenneth Copeland Christianity…and made remarks in past about man made rituals and the demons of religion, and having me read a new interest that reading through the book and going into the last chapters, remarks how the Catholic Church lies…oh these great and insightful evangelicals.

It would be better they take professional classes on Catholicism before trying to save them.

 

[KathleenGee]

If Mr Tebow does go to the Philippines, I hope he is in Manila at the 3 o’clock hour in the afternoon. There many stop every day at that time to recall the passion and suffering of our Lord for our sins, and to remember Him and His great offering.

 

[JustaServant]

In my time at CAF…I don’t like Radical’s mind…although it is a well preserved 16th century model…however I never question a relationship with the Lord or knowing the Lord. John NC has expressed an understanding of the Real presence that I can respect and understand. Contarini is a historian and I do not recall any dialogue concerning his relationship with God. Anna just invited me as a friend and as an Anglican I look at her postings and I have no desire to ask if she knows the Lord, has a relationship or whatever.

Let me guess…you never read Dale Carnegie?