Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

[ProVobis]

Totally agree. It’s funny how the TV personalities who have such a problem with Tim Tebow have far less to say about the poor sportsmanship, thuggery, drug abuse, and generally bad behavior by so many football players. It really says something about them.

Yet they all talk about “Hail Mary” passes. Go figure.

 

[BeMyLove]

I’m not tired of Tim Tebow and agree, we need more young people with his conviction and faith. You know, he’s not the first footballer to drop to one knee and make the sign of the cross but, because he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Catholic, has a strong belief system and moral values, it has been turned into an “issue” that has been jumped on by the press and others like fleas on a dog!

Leave the kid alone and let him be who he is and don’t try to squeeze him into a mold.

God bless

 

[LightBound]

I’m not tired of Tim Tebow and agree, we need more young people with his conviction and faith. You know, he’s not the first footballer to drop to one knee and make the sign of the cross but, because he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Catholic, has a strong belief system and moral values, it has been turned into an “issue” that has been jumped on by the press and others like fleas on a dog!

Leave the kid alone and let him be who he is and don’t try to squeeze him into a mold.

God bless

Okay, I don’t think you know who Tim Tebow is.

He’s not Catholic and he does not make the Sign of the Cross!

He’s evangelical, and while he is a good Christian, his dad has a ministry to “bring the Gospel” to those “poor heathen Catholics” in the Philippines.

Do you have Tim confused with another athlete that is Catholic?

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian;8825590:

Slinger;8825516:

I’m not really sure what you are asking QUOTE]

For the last time, seriously, I have never said I know what the measure is or that I personally apply a measure. Only an individual and God know if their heart is right.

Here is what you said in 3 posts…

The US is mainly a protestant country but there is not objection to Catholics reaching out to those who are not Catholic. Perhaps there are protestants in the US that say they are “Christian” because that is how they were raised but they have no real connection to Christ. If the Catholic church is a way to lead them to a closer relationship to Christ would you object because this is a generally protestant country?/

COLOR]

The US is rapidly losing it’s Protestant majority status. What this has to do with anything only you know. You then say that Protestants say “they are Christian because that is how they were raised but they have no real connection to Christ”…That is a generalization. If you are raised Catholic then you say that there are some that have no connection to Christ. Explain this lack of connection as you see it and since you said it.

I personally don’t care, Catholic or Protestant, if a person is brought to Christ through the results of missions.

This is magnanimous. I care. Billy Graham is one of the few revivalists that preaches and at the altar call directs you back to your Church…did you know that?

Do you know that there are a great number of people in the US (a “Christian” nation) that would refer to themselves as Christian but never really know Christ? I am just guessing that is probably not something unique to the US in regards to a largely Catholic country. Just because a census or survey says people tend to be Catholic or Christian does not mean that they know the Lord like they should.

You then say that people refer to themselves as Christian but never really know Christ. This means that there are those that really know Christ. There are those that know and those that don’t know. How do you make that statement unless you have some way of knowing who knows and who doesn’t know?

You say that Catholic or Christian does not mean that they know the Lord like they should. This means that there are those that know the Lord as they should. There are those that know the Lord as they should and those that don’t know the Lord as they should. How do you make that statement unless you have some way of knowing who knows and who doesn’t know?

So tell me how you can know who really knows Christ and who really knows the Lord as they should beause this is what you said.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Let me help you…
Someone is a Christian based on

1. Baptized as a Baby in the Trinitarian formula
2. Baptized as an adult after Catechesis
3. Baptized and makes an effort to follow Christ
4. Baptized and expresses their Faith through actions

If we go back to the 4th century, all Christians back then agreed at the First Ecumenical Council that a Christian is someone who professes the Nicene Creed.

 

[CopticChristian]

If we go back to the 4th century, all Christians back then agreed at the First Ecumenical Council that a Christian is someone who professes the Nicene Creed.

This is fascinating. Provide me the source for this so that I may go and have people profess and be so named.

 

[ConstantineTG]

All I can say is that I have personal experience in evangelical missions as my oldest daughter has spent many summers in prominently Catholic parts of the world doing missions work. Her team and the leadership never looked at their work as trying to convert Catholics to “their side”. They aren’t anti-Catholic either…my daughter is very seriously dating a Catholic young man, attends church and retreats with him on occasion and has best friends who are Catholic. His parents have financially supported her in her missions. She never asks someone “are you Catholic?” if they approach their ministry as their only interest is to help them know Jesus. I am guessing that the Tebow family is very similar in their approach.

Do you know that there are a great number of people in the US (a “Christian” nation) that would refer to themselves as Christian but never really know Christ? I am just guessing that is probably not something unique to the US in regards to a largely Catholic country. Just because a census or survey says people tend to be Catholic or Christian does not mean that they know the Lord like they should. Does that mean that Christian missionaries should ignore those people and just assume they are okay? If that was the case then why would the Tebow family feel called to continue their ministry there?

Of course you will say “they don’t know the Lord like they should.” That should is the tricky part because if one knows the Lord as a Catholic does, one who is not Catholic can simply say, “that is not enough.” One friend was quietly pulling me into her Pentecostal Church, invited me to a “Filipino Gathering” in her Church. I said sure, free food and Filipinos, what can go wrong? Apparently it was for an American missionary who spent a huge amount of time in the Philippines. After dinner there was some story telling about what he did, out of curiosity I stayed and listened. So there he was boasting about this Catholic guy he converted, even making jokes about not having Mary in the “church”.

 

[CopticChristian]

Of course you will say “they don’t know the Lord like they should.” That should is the tricky part because if one knows the Lord as a Catholic does, one who is not Catholic can simply say, “that is not enough.” One friend was quietly pulling me into her Pentecostal Church, invited me to a “Filipino Gathering” in her Church. I said sure, **free food **and Filipinos, what can go wrong? Apparently it was for an American missionary who spent a huge amount of time in the Philippines. After dinner there was some story telling about what he did, out of curiosity I stayed and listened. So there he was boasting about this Catholic guy he converted, even making jokes about not having Mary in the “church”.

Did they have lumpia, adobo,lechon and pancit…cause that is awesome…cannot do the baalute.

 

[andrewstx]

I agree. put plainly in the Philippines most Catholics are Christians, or become Christians. but some do not. The Tebow’s, the Gordon Robinsons of 700 Club Asia and the 5%… are there for those people. A corner of the world should not walled off and those people left behind because Spain’s army once upon a time kept others away. There was a famous politician who got an annulment because although he went through the rituals he said he didn’t mean it. I don’t count the people who go through the motions and don’t mean it however if an alternative is not giving to him will he ever move beyond faking a ritual or will his seeking lead him to the large Ingelsia Ni Cristo or the microscopic in numbers Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses?

I also believe Bob Tebow disagrees with me

How about a simple straight forward answer without qualifiers?

Do you consider Catholics anywhere Christains? Anywhere America Phillipines does not matter. Just don’t add conditions like if Catholics “get saved” they can become Christians.

Catholics don’t “get saved”, that is Evangelical doctrine and we don’t buy it.

Simple Straightforward

Yes or No

 

[ConstantineTG]

This is fascinating. Provide me the source for this so that I may go and have people profess and be so named.

Wasn’t that the outcome of the council, to define what the Church and its members should believe in? While the Creed is not the totality of Christian faith, anyone who professes something that opposes it (such as the deity of Christ, the necessity of a Church, or the one baptism as the case for those who say you can be baptized as many times as you want) is not Christian.

Did they have lumpia, adobo,lechon and pancit…cause that is awesome…cannot do the baalute.

I can’t remember exactly, this was a while back (2008). I think there was lechon and pancit, probably not adobo.

 

[4Squarebaby]

How about a simple straight forward answer without qualifiers?

Do you consider Catholics anywhere Christains? Anywhere America Phillipines does not matter. Just don’t add conditions like if Catholics “get saved” they can become Christians.

Catholics don’t “get saved”, that is Evangelical doctrine and we don’t buy it.

Simple Straightforward

Yes or No

Most Catholics, if baptism by a Catholic priest is the qualifier become Christians in the Philippines as in other parts of the world. However most is not all, let us say in France or Spain the numbers are dropping as a greater perrcentage of the kids drop out and become none believers as they near adulthood.

And I do believe there are stories in the Bible about reaching that one person even if most perfer the tradition of a specificmi location there is still that one lost soul, to be concerned with. should priest X not work with him why all the fuss when evangelist Y or missionary Z shows up in a community?

 

[CopticChristian]

Wasn’t that the outcome of the council, to define what the Church and its members should believe in? While the Creed is not the totality of Christian faith, anyone who professes something that opposes it (such as the deity of Christ, the necessity of a Church, or the one baptism as the case for those who say you can be baptized as many times as you want) is not Christian.

I can’t remember exactly, this was a while back (2008). I think there was lechon and pancit, probably not adobo.

To profess the faith without being catechized and baptized would not equate to being called a Christian. In reciting the creed to say you believe in what you have experienced and been taught ie “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” means you have been catechized and believe that baptism that you have experienced is regenerative.

 

[CopticChristian]

Most Catholics, if baptism by a Catholic priest is the qualifier become Christians in the Philippines as in other parts of the world. However most is not all, let us say in France or Spain the numbers are dropping as a greater perrcentage of the kids drop out and become none believers as they near adulthood.

And I do believe there are stories in the Bible about reaching that one person even if most perfer the tradition of a specificmi location there is still that one lost soul, to be concerned with. should priest X not work with him why all the fuss when evangelist Y or missionary Z shows up in a community?

The prodigal son was always part of the family. The Protestant paradigm of that son having a poor relationship with the father and his family gets involved in family relations and attempts to get the son involved in family functions that do not return the son to the family and the father of origin…the Protestant paradigm takes the son from the family and the father to other than the family of origin…

 

[Filii_Dei]

Most Catholics, if baptism by a Catholic priest is the qualifier become Christians in the Philippines as in other parts of the world. However most is not all, let us say in France or Spain the numbers are dropping as a greater perrcentage of the kids drop out and become none believers as they near adulthood.

And I do believe there are stories in the Bible about reaching that one person even if most perfer the tradition of a specificmi location there is still that one lost soul, to be concerned with. should priest X not work with him why all the fuss when evangelist Y or missionary Z shows up in a community?

The Philippines is not France or Spain.

I’m sorry, but I think you may not be getting the picture here. The good people of the Philippines are some of the finest examples of Christian devotion in a society, and that a person thinks that he can preach the Gospel to them truly befuddles the mind.

Again, the question is on one of efficacy and purpose. Why would you want evangelise in a country in that is already devoutly Christian, and blatantly ignore the many other countries yet to be converted? Or is it that he believes that Catholics are not Christians, and that they are the ones who are yet to be converted?

Every population has lost souls, but is the solution to reaching out to those “lost souls” is to convert them to a different set of beliefs, rather than helping his church get in touch with him? Remarkable.

Indeed, when a country has already been painstakingly united by faith and brought so tightly together by a common belief, but someone who preaches a different creed comes in to disrupt the unity and cause division by setting up their own individual churches openly defying and preying upon pre-existing communities, why all the fuss?

 

[andrewstx]

Most Catholics, if baptism by a Catholic priest is the qualifier become Christians in the Philippines as in other parts of the world. However most is not all, let us say in France or Spain the numbers are dropping as a greater perrcentage of the kids drop out and become none believers as they near adulthood.

And I do believe there are stories in the Bible about reaching that one person even if most perfer the tradition of a specificmi location there is still that one lost soul, to be concerned with. should priest X not work with him why all the fuss when evangelist Y or missionary Z shows up in a community?

Thats just plain wrong. All Catholics by virtue of their baptism are Christian. All Catholics.
Some are bad Christians becuase they fall into mortal sin, but baptism leaves a mark on the soul. Once you are baptised you cannot be “unbaptised” and become unchristian.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Thats just plain wrong. All Catholics by virtue of their baptism are Christian. All Catholics.
Some are bad Christians becuase they fall into mortal sin, but baptism leaves a mark on the soul. Once you are baptised you cannot be “unbaptised” and become unchristian.

I know you believe that, you asked what I believe

 

[FabiusMaximus]

The Philippines is not France or Spain.

I’m sorry, but I think you may not be getting the picture here. The good people of the Philippines are some of the finest examples of Christian devotion in a society, and that a person thinks that he can preach the Gospel to them truly befuddles the mind.

Again, the question is on one of efficacy and purpose. Why would you want evangelise in a country in that is already devoutly **Christian, and blatantly ignore the many other countries yet to be converted? Or is it that he believes that Catholics are not Christians, and that they are the ones who are yet to be converted?**Indeed, when a country has already been painstakingly united by faith and brought so tightly together by a common belief, but someone who preaches a different creed comes in to disrupt the unity and cause division by setting up their own individual churches openly defying and preying upon pre-existing communities, why all the fuss?

For the same reason the Catholic Church feels it necessary to convert Evangelical and and Protestant Christians, even though we/they are also devout Christians.

Why does the Catholic Church attempt to convert Russians who are affiliated with the Orthodox Church?

Clearly because even though they are fellow Christians, the Catholic Church would prefer them to be a part of their Church.

Much like Evangelicals wish that other Christians join their denomination.

It’s kind of annoying to see Catholics lament the fact that Evangelicals prosletyze them but then bash non-Catholics on the head with the line of “we are the true Church you are false”.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

That’s not what the Russian Orthodox Church seems to think.

 

[DLG123]

I love Tebow Time, he has done more for Christians then most and his courage on issues like abortion are outstanding!

Where is the Catholic version of Tebow? That is the million dollar question.

His Name is PHILIP RIVERS

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Well there are also members of the Orthodox Church who would disagree with them. We could go on ad infinitum discussing “I know such and such person who says…”

The point is, the Catholic Church does engage in trying to evangelize non-Catholic Christians. I don’t have a problem with Christian groups attempting to convert one another.

However, I find it puzzling that Catholics would complain about Tim Tebow’s dad wanting to convert Catholics in the Philippines but not be disturbed in the slightest at Catholic attempts to convert Evangelicals or Protestants in general.

I get that you Catholics believe you are the One True Church - the thing is, you guys are not the only ones who tend to think that.