Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JustaServant
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don’t know how inevitable a Tim Tebow fall from grace is. In the last generation people were expecting a fall from Laker basketball player AC Green. Still hasn’t happened
 
ltwin said:
That persons who were born into a church, but have minimal contact with that church in later life is to put simply fair game. To say, “I’m not gonna witness to that person because he/she is already affiliated with another church,” would be seen as missing an opportunity to help that person.
I don’t mean to offend anyone, and I certainly do not advocate placing Catholics outside of Christianity. **However, I can see the situation is really complex. **
I am not unsympathetic to the concerns expressed on this forum and there are evangelical Protestants who do take this into consideration. In the words of the Pentecostal theologian Frank Macchia, Protestant missionaries and evangelists should take into account that “infant-baptized persons not currently active in the church have already in a profound sense been laid claim to by God in the bosom of the historic church.”

I would agree with him. At the very least, I would wish Mr. Tebow get more realistic statistics.
Click to expand...
This notion of fair game and helping begs the question that you are indeed helping someone. This reminds me of my Reformed friends that say they witness every week at certain places with tracts. The conversation recently went like this…

They handed me a tract…the usual…if you lie, you are a liar, if you steal you are a thief…and if you are a thief and a liar and not a good person…then accept Jesus and get saved…

The person says “if you have cancer” that is bad…how can you not want to offer the cure and if you have the cure then you are obligated to witness…to wit I added…

That presupposes that you have accurately diagnosed the problem as Cancer. It also presupposes that you have a cure. There are people that believe a coffee enema will cure cancer and to do that may be harmful. So if you can’t be sure it is Cancer and if you really don’t know if you have a cure what are you offering?

I of course recieved silence…

I believe that you believe that the notion of fair game is how you see it…to see people in this light suggests the imagery of hunting prey…and I believe that these people are being preyed upon and hunted like so many trophies and to help them one has to question what it is you are helping them with…You reveal so much in your notion by using words like

fair game
opportunity
help

and although you say the situation is complex the fair game, opportunity, help reveals that in your thinking your plan is pretty simple and not hard to read…it is disappointing to me…😊
 
My daughter’s mother in law is a Four Square Gospel believer and when we are together, I am not to speak of my own faith. She is constantly showing me new and enlightened readings…we prayed a few times and after hearing these exhortations of renouncing ‘man made rituals’…‘demons of religion’…I had enough. I avoid speaking to her any more about it, but simply share on prayer requests.

It does anger me. And it hurts me. And it comes across as very superior and also very ignorant.

Yes, Catholic converts are ‘trophies’…some thing wrong with that form of faith…better they re-direct it towards those who impoverish their own filipinos or the Muslims there who do not know the love of Christ.

I spoke to her of learning history, and she replied that was too much. Well, if such Protestants refuse to learn the history of Christianity…and I have the same impression of other Fundamentalists, then just focus on the love of God and work for Christian unity instead of promoting prejudice.

While in the mission, I would go out by myself on several occasions and meet with African natives. They opened up to me and told me how these Adventists came through trying to convert them, telling the priests had alot of money and that we worshipped statues…They were anguished hearing such things and stayed away as well, inspite of the good the priests did. I continued to visit them, and in time…I only listened and never denounced the Adventists…but simply said it wasn’t true…they came into be baptized Catholics.

To have anti-Catholicism as your main thrust in evangelizing…without even knowing the history of the people, you are nevertheless promoting division in Christian unity, not the fruits of Christ.
 
Many People want to convert Catholic’s. But a true Catholic will never leave the CC.
 
CopticChristian said:
I am always dumbfounded by this Protestant self appointed sherrif status to determine the status of others. I for the life of me cannot understand where this is learned. Who is anyone to say that anyone else is or is not transformed. In my Church no one talks about others transformation, others sinful lives, I just don’t get this Nazi mentality that I see when I read about judging others.

How do you know when God is moving you where and when you are exerting your own free will. You leave the door open to God planted you in a Mormon temple, or Kingdom Hall, or Church of What’s happening now…what measure do you have that God is doing all these things…?
Click to expand...
I don’t understand either, CopticChristian. Christ alone will decide who is a Christian and who isn’t. It is not my job to decide. After all, what are people going to do if Christ decides that someone who they said was not a Christian is a Christian. These people have made a very serious judgment on someone else’s salvation, when that is Christ’s place alone. Also, I have enough on my plate looking to my own life and examining myself to see what I need to repent of and becoming like Him. One of Satan’s biggest tricks is getting us to look at others instead of ourselves. We will only answer to Christ for one person on Judgment Day, and that will be ourselves–He will deal with the other people when it’s their turn.
 
A Catholic convert told me after a while that from her observation and now hands on knowledge of professing faith with Catholics, we keep our focus on our own sinfulness and not look so much at others’…

Isn’t that what the Lord would admonish…to take the log out of our own eyes…

I hope non-Catholics begin to realize there is alot more to the faith of a practicing Catholic than meets the eye…Enough said.
 
Phyllo said:
Short of reading the entire site what does Tims father think about Catholics?. I didn’t see any thing negative on the first page of the site and that is as far as I read.

I for one am not tired of Tim Tebow. We need more young men like him who worship God and are not ashamed to do so in public.
Click to expand...
There is a big difference in worshiping God, being proud to be a Christian (Catholic) and making a spectacle of yourself. I believe Tebow’s acts are for show and I believe it’s a sin. I’m a proud Catholic, but I let my actions speak for me, I don’t need to go around bragging to everybody that I’m a Great God Fearing Catholic.
 
MarkAndrew said:
There is a big difference in worshiping God, being proud to be a Christian (Catholic) and making a spectacle of yourself. I believe Tebow’s acts are for show and I believe it’s a sin. I’m a proud Catholic, but I let my actions speak for me, I don’t need to go around bragging to everybody that I’m a Great God Fearing Catholic.
Click to expand...
What do you think of Manny Pacquiao then who wears a rosary on his neck, prays on his corner before and after the match, and also makes a sign of the cross before and after the match?
 
ltwin said:
That persons who were born into a church, but have minimal contact with that church in later life is to put simply fair game. To say, “I’m not gonna witness to that person because he/she is already affiliated with another church,” would be seen as missing an opportunity to help that person.

I don’t mean to offend anyone, and I certainly do not advocate placing Catholics outside of Christianity. However, I can see the situation is really complex.

I am not unsympathetic to the concerns expressed on this forum and there are evangelical Protestants who do take this into consideration. In the words of the Pentecostal theologian Frank Macchia, Protestant missionaries and evangelists should take into account that “infant-baptized persons not currently active in the church have already in a profound sense been laid claim to by God in the bosom of the historic church.”

I would agree with him. At the very least, I would wish Mr. Tebow get more realistic statistics.
Click to expand...
And yet that is not the issue we are facing here. Bob Tebow does not wish to help non-practising Catholics live their faith. In fact, the recent evidence brought to light is that he believes Catholics are not saved, and in fact actively and assiduously targets them for conversion. He does not care if they are actively practising or non-practising Catholics. He will preach to them all the same to convince them that they are in the false religion. 🤷

It would be nice to think that Bob Tebow really wishes to help lapsed Catholics return to Christ, but he clearly does not. It’s not simply an issue of bad statistics (as if someone who has lived in the Philippines for so long can conveniently forget the fact that the majority of the population is Catholic). I appreciate you for giving him the benefit of the doubt, but you are defending the indefensible. 🙂
 
MarkAndrew said:
There is a big difference in worshiping God, being proud to be a Christian (Catholic) and making a spectacle of yourself. I believe Tebow’s acts are for show and I believe it’s a sin. I’m a proud Catholic, but I let my actions speak for me, I don’t need to go around bragging to everybody that I’m a Great God Fearing Catholic.
Click to expand...
I do believe that it is sincere, however, he forgets that Christ tells us to pray in secret and not out on the street corners making a big show of it. We are to give alms and do acts of mercy the same way. We do them in secret and don’t make a big deal of it (as my priest used to tell us, if men give you praise for the acts that you are doing, you already have your reward). We can pray anytime, anywhere and have people not even know that we are praying. We don’t (and shouldn’t be) making a big production while doing it.
 
stewstew03 said:
Let me help you - click here.
Click to expand...
I found difficulty in discerning Bob Tebow’s beliefs…is he a Baptist? Tim Tebow attends a Baptist Church.

I have culled your link and will provide a summary of the so called “Gospel”…there are some peculiarities about the newsletters…

Doesn’t anyone find it odd that Bob Tebow has taken it upon himself to violate another countries government, school system, and disregard boundaries in his project.

Imagine anyone from any country coming to our schools in the USA and meeting with and doing what Tebow says he is doing. Even private schools would dismiss this dude…this is a complete lack of respect…

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you…In the USA you have to respect the minds of the individual…so I can therefore go where ever I please and do what ever I want…

I have been to the Phillipines, worked in thier hospitals…I was always a guest…and acted like a guest…
 
KathleenGee said:
My daughter’s mother in law is a Four Square Gospel believer and when we are together, I am not to speak of my own faith. She is constantly showing me new and enlightened readings…we prayed a few times and after hearing these exhortations of renouncing ‘man made rituals’…‘demons of religion’…I had enough. I avoid speaking to her any more about it, but simply share on prayer requests.

It does anger me. And it hurts me. And it comes across as very superior and also very ignorant.

Yes, Catholic converts are ‘trophies’…some thing wrong with that form of faith…better they re-direct it towards those who impoverish their own filipinos or the Muslims there who do not know the love of Christ.

I spoke to her of learning history, and she replied that was too much. Well, if such Protestants refuse to learn the history of Christianity…and I have the same impression of other Fundamentalists, then just focus on the love of God and work for Christian unity instead of promoting prejudice.

While in the mission, I would go out by myself on several occasions and meet with African natives. They opened up to me and told me how these Adventists came through trying to convert them, telling the priests had alot of money and that we worshipped statues…They were anguished hearing such things and stayed away as well, inspite of the good the priests did. I continued to visit them, and in time…I only listened and never denounced the Adventists…but simply said it wasn’t true…they came into be baptized Catholics.

To have anti-Catholicism as your main thrust in evangelizing…without even knowing the history of the people, you are nevertheless promoting division in Christian unity, not the fruits of Christ.
Click to expand...
I believe that it is time to do something. We have talked about it. We have complained. It used to be a problem communicating, not anymore. I ask any and all interested parties to pray, think, write and then send concerns to the Phillipines…below is the link to the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Phillipines…

cbcponline.net/v2/?page_id=1043

this is the legal arm of that department…

cbcponline.net/v2/?p=774

send emails and express concern for the lack of respect Bob Tebow is showing the integrity of the Phillipino Catholics…quote Tebow and his notion of people that have not heard the "gospel’…the use of the word Catholic as if they were not Christian, the invasion of schools and villages and anything else you have a mind to say…

Below is the Phillipine government website…search for departments to write emails of complaints and the mockery of Bob Tebow as it concerns their country, invasion of the schools, and lack of concern for the country…

dfa.gov.ph/main/index.php/links/rp-government-agencies

I will be formulating and sending emails…do something…we can and we should…👍

I just sent this email to the Phillipino tourism dept…
To whom it may concern. I want you to be aware that Mr. Bob Tebow is in your country proseltyzing Baptist beliefs in many parts of the country. He has a ministry that in my opinion denegrates the country…
Click to expand...
btea.org/fivepriorities.asp
Click to expand...
He portrays the country as not being Christian and as a potential tourist, having been to the Phillipines many times, I know this not to be true…
Click to expand...
This is from one of his newletters…
Click to expand...
btea.org/newsletter/july2009pg1-2.pdf
Click to expand...
He portrays the Filipino as needing Christianity and this is not true…you should be aware of what he is doing.
Click to expand...
 
MarkAndrew said:
There is a big difference in worshiping God, being proud to be a Christian (Catholic) and making a spectacle of yourself. I believe Tebow’s acts are for show and I believe it’s a sin. I’m a proud Catholic, but I let my actions speak for me, I don’t need to go around bragging to everybody that I’m a Great God Fearing Catholic.
Click to expand...
Mark you are entitled to your opinion but in this post you are the pot calling the kettle black. You presume to know what is in Tim Tebow’s heart and you are judging him, quite unfairly since you certainly don’t know the man. You are also bragging about being a “Great God Fearing Catholic.” I think there is something about taking the log out of your own eye first isn’t there?

I don’t know Tim Tebow although I’ve followed his career. His exploits on the field, his charitable works, his public expressions of faith are not because he grabbed the microphone or paid for commercial time as do many in ministry, but because our media has focused the camera on him, interviewed him and discussed his actions repeatedly. Tim Tebow seems like a very humble man who is GRATEFUL to God first. He certainly takes advantage of the opportunities given to him to express that gratitude. He does not say “I’m so wonderful” but that “God is wonderful.” What is wrong with that message?

Oh and FWIW I think 99% of the objections to Tim Tebow are based on envy…another sin as I recall. I think we need to consider why the resentment of this seemingly very nice, humble man who instead of shaking his behind in the end zone is thankful to God for the many blessings he has received.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Mark you are entitled to your opinion but in this post you are the pot calling the kettle black. You presume to know what is in Tim Tebow’s heart and you are judging him, quite unfairly since you certainly don’t know the man. You are also bragging about being a “Great God Fearing Catholic.” I think there is something about taking the log out of your own eye first isn’t there?

I don’t know Tim Tebow although I’ve followed his career. His exploits on the field, his charitable works, his public expressions of faith are not because he grabbed the microphone or paid for commercial time as do many in ministry, but because our media has focused the camera on him, interviewed him and discussed his actions repeatedly. Tim Tebow seems like a very humble man who is GRATEFUL to God first. He certainly takes advantage of the opportunities given to him to express that gratitude. He does not say “I’m so wonderful” but that “God is wonderful.” What is wrong with that message?

Oh and FWIW I think 99% of the objections to Tim Tebow are based on envy…another sin as I recall. I think we need to consider why the resentment of this seemingly very nice, humble man who instead of shaking his behind in the end zone is thankful to God for the many blessings he has received.

Lisa
Click to expand...
Since you do not know anyones heart how can you conclude this?
 
ConstantineTG said:
What do you think of Manny Pacquiao then who wears a rosary on his neck, prays on his corner before and after the match, and also makes a sign of the cross before and after the match?
Click to expand...
Honestly I feel the same. I don’t like when people make a spectacle of themselves; I pray the holy rosary nightly, but I do it in a quiet meditative setting so that I feel connected with God, Jesus, Mary, etc. Manny should say his prayers the night before, besides we don’t pray for things like “winning” or “lottery”. Actions speak volumes about who you are and if you’re truly a good Catholic others will just know from those actions. I don’t like it when people broadcast it and I certainly do not like it when people wear the rosary around their neck. It’s a holy blessed rosary, not anybody’s BLING. (I think some call it) I too carry a rosary everywhere I go, in my pocket, in my glove box and I quietly say my prayers to keep me in touch with my God and my faith. I don’t fall to my knees at work and pray for others to see, I pray in silence and sincerely for peace, love, happiness and for the petitions of friends in need. But that’s just me I guess.
 
Constantine…

You made a good point; we know of this Filipino boxer in my family.

I think Mark’s point is also consistent with the vast majority of public Catholics, that we tend to pray ‘in the closet’…Catholic spirituality always directs us to better hide our virtue, be transparent, and show our faults so they can be corrected.

However, the boxer and Tebow…also are following the Lord as they experience Him in their hearts.
 
MarkAndrew said:
Honestly I feel the same. I don’t like when people make a spectacle of themselves; I pray the holy rosary nightly, but I do it in a quiet meditative setting so that I feel connected with God, Jesus, Mary, etc. Manny should say his prayers the night before, besides we don’t pray for things like “winning” or “lottery”. Actions speak volumes about who you are and if you’re truly a good Catholic others will just know from those actions. I don’t like it when people broadcast it and I certainly do not like it when people wear the rosary around their neck. It’s a holy blessed rosary, not anybody’s BLING. (I think some call it) I too carry a rosary everywhere I go, in my pocket, in my glove box and I quietly say my prayers to keep me in touch with my God and my faith. I don’t fall to my knees at work and pray for others to see, I pray in silence and sincerely for peace, love, happiness and for the petitions of friends in need. But that’s just me I guess.
Click to expand...
Hmmm very interesting. You say you always pray in private but suggest people will know you are a good Catholic by your actions. Well if you are praying in private, keeping your faith private, your rosary in your pocket, how would anyone have a clue you are Catholic? Certainly they may, by observing, note that you are kind, considerate and caring. But that does not mean you are Catholic does it? Given the lack of religion ‘in the public square’ in this country one might simply assume you are a nice guy but have no idea that your faith is what inspires your actions.

I think one of the problems with Catholics sharing our wonderful faith is this theory that it’s meant to be our little secret. One of the most amazing testimonials in our Parish was an elderly woman who said from childhood she was drawn to the Church, that she had Catholic friends and Catholic neighbors but NONE of them shared their faith. She said she was approached by evangelicals, Protestants, New Agers, and even Muslims. But never by Catholics. I guess they like you Mark were quietly and privately practicing their faith!

As it turned out, on her own she explored becoming Catholic, converted and after losing her husband and raising her children became a Religious! How many people could we share our faith with if we would just be open and proud of being Catholic. That does not mean tearing our hair and beating our breast, but look for an opening in a conversation or other encounter.

Do not demean others for their more open faith. We are to be witnesses and sometimes that means we do open our mouths and speak.

Lisa
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top