Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

[Filii_Dei]

You don’t know that. They were probably fallen away if they chose to be born again. Also, the family run an orphanage there.

Here we go again. :doh2:

Have you even been reading the last few pages of this thread? The proof is on his own website. Bob Tebow does not help “fallen away Catholics”. He actively looks for Catholics and tries to convert them. When he finds somebody who identifies himself as Catholic, he preaches to them because they “have never heard the Gospel”. In fact, his whole mission in the Philippines is based around waging his personal war of attrition against the Catholic Church (who does not retaliate, by the way). It is evident he does not believe Catholics are Christians.

 

[mini_me640]

Here we go again. :doh2:

Have you even been reading the last few pages of this thread? The proof is on his own website. Bob Tebow does not help “fallen away Catholics”. He actively looks for Catholics and tries to convert them. When he finds somebody who identifies himself as Catholic, he preaches to them because they “have never heard the Gospel”. In fact, his whole mission in the Philippines is based around waging his personal war of attrition against the Catholic Church (who does not retaliate, by the way). It is evident he does not believe Catholics are Christians.

I think what the other poster is saying is that a true Catholic who is committed and understands their faith will not be converted away.

 

[LisaA]

Here we go again. :doh2:

Have you even been reading the last few pages of this thread? The proof is on his own website. Bob Tebow does not help “fallen away Catholics”. He actively looks for Catholics and tries to convert them. When he finds somebody who identifies himself as Catholic, he preaches to them because they “have never heard the Gospel”. In fact, his whole mission in the Philippines is based around waging his personal war of attrition against the Catholic Church (who does not retaliate, by the way). It is evident he does not believe Catholics are Christians.

OK so what? We cannot control the beliefs of others and if they are more effective at evangelizing than we are, well shame on us! While we disagree with Mr Tebow’s religious outlook how do we stop him? Do you think you should be able to silence everyone who believes differently than you? The Church should not ‘retaliate’ but should get out in front of this issue because we don’t have the right to prevent Mr Tebow or others from leading people away from the Faith.

I think it’s an opportunity to do some self searching and soul searching and think about what we are doing both to live and share our faith. Isn’t this Pope Benedict’s call to us this year?

As a convert I assure you, I had to pursue Catholicism on my own although I was approached and evangelized by those in other denominations. As someone said if we don’t evangelize our own, don’t be surprised if someone is moving in.

Lisa

 

[mini_me640]

OK so what? We cannot control the beliefs of others and if they are more effective at evangelizing than we are, well shame on us! While we disagree with Mr Tebow’s religious outlook how do we stop him? Do you think you should be able to silence everyone who believes differently than you? The Church should not ‘retaliate’ but should get out in front of this issue because we don’t have the right to prevent Mr Tebow or others from leading people away from the Faith.

I think it’s an opportunity to do some self searching and soul searching and think about what we are doing both to live and share our faith. Isn’t this Pope Benedict’s call to us this year?

As a convert I assure you, I had to pursue Catholicism on my own although I was approached and evangelized by those in other denominations. As someone said if we don’t evangelize our own, don’t be surprised if someone is moving in.

Lisa

 

[CopticChristian]

You don’t know that. They were probably fallen away if they **chose to be born again. **Also, the family run an orphanage there.

So that I may understand…

To be baptized is to be born again with water an spirit. What is it you are saying choosing to be born again? Are you saying they are choosing to be born of water and spirit? Explain this choice you speak of.

If Mormons, Jehovah Witness, or Muslims ran that same orphanage would you be OK with that knowing that they are porobably trying to convert people to their way of thinking ie Momonism, Kingdom Hall, or Islam?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The el filibusterismo never appealed to me at all, can’t even recall what the story was about. One thing is sure, no one is blaming Spain, not this poster as I can recall. I didn’t buy the idea during history class. For all I know, I am the Capitan of my galleon. I only heard that “blame everything on Spain” once. This came from an angry old guy and the irony of it is, he is rich.

I’m afraid you really need to do some reviewing and this time, ‘buy’ into it because it’s not very smart to not ‘buy’ into historical fact. The problem with many actively Catholic Filipinos who take angles like yours is that they fall into the trap of equating Spain with the Catholic Church. If anything, Spain infected the clergy with unsavory, power-hungry individuals.

Much of what was wrong during the Spanish days still lives on in our own society. Back in my elementary and high school days, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard students rehearse “Land of Bondage, Land of the Free”.

Finally, in no way do my words indicate that we should not take responsibility. I am however simply pointing out the roots from which the ills of modern Filipino society grew from.

P.S.

I suggest you re-read El Filibusterismo. It actually has one or two redeeming Spanish protagonists (one of them a priest).

 

[ConstantineTG]

Please, my brother bought into the fad you’re referring to. On the other hand, I studied under two prominent scholars on Philippine culture who would be both more than happy to criticize ALL forms of colonization. From Spain, America, and Japanese. (Fun Pinoy trivia though: Guess who ruled us the longest?)

Its not an excuse. What land was not colonized or taken over by another throughout its history? Very few, especially in Europe when kingdoms and empires throughout time took over one land and another.

Does it matter? The fact remains: What was wrong in colonial Spain still prevails today. The infection continues. Political dynasties still exist. Rich and poor are still pitted against each other like they’re mortal enemies. The best that’s happened is that corrupt clergy are no longer adding to that poison.

Do you think this only happens to former Spanish colonies? I go to a Ukrainian Catholic parish and so far the stories I’ve heard about Ukraine always makes me say, “hey, its the same in the Philippines.” Except for the part that they were under Communist rule for the better part of a century. But corruption, class warfare, etc. They were never under Spain. Do you think African nations today are any different? But they were never under Spain (correct me if I’m wrong, I can’t recall an African nation that was under Spanish rule but maybe there was, but its very few).

What do I care about the Spanish Inquisition? I’m talking about Spain’s involvement in this country.

We were colonized under the Spanish inquisition.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I
Do you think this only happens to former Spanish colonies? I go to a Ukrainian Catholic parish and so far the stories I’ve heard about Ukraine always makes me say, “hey, its the same in the Philippines.” Except for the part that they were under Communist rule for the better part of a century. But corruption, class warfare, etc. They were never under Spain. Do you think African nations today are any different? But they were never under Spain (correct me if I’m wrong, I can’t recall an African nation that was under Spanish rule but maybe there was, but its very few).

Equatorial Guinea was taken over from Portugal in 1778 and part of what is now Morrocco.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Do you think this only happens to former Spanish colonies? I go to a Ukrainian Catholic parish and so far the stories I’ve heard about Ukraine always makes me say, “hey, its the same in the Philippines.” Except for the part that they were under Communist rule for the better part of a century. But corruption, class warfare, etc. They were never under Spain. Do you think African nations today are any different? But they were never under Spain (correct me if I’m wrong, I can’t recall an African nation that was under Spanish rule but maybe there was, but its very few).

I didn’t say that either. It doesn’t however change the fact that it was Spain who introduced the popular hacienda systems which allowed corruption to flourish so extravagantly. It wasn’t England. It wasn’t America. It wasn’t Japan.

It. Was. Spain.

Just because other countries did it to their own colonies (or even to themselves) doesn’t make it any more justified. It still stands that Rizal (along with many other national heroes) were right to criticize Spanish rule (including its hand in the Church).

 

[PRmerger]

I didn’t say that either. It doesn’t however change the fact that it was Spain who introduced the popular hacienda systems which allowed corruption to flourish so extravagantly. It wasn’t England. It wasn’t America. It wasn’t Japan.

What’s the hacienda system?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

What’s the hacienda system?

If you want a rough idea, it’s apparently what makes Catholic social teaching difficult to implement in this country.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacienda_system

 

[PRmerger]

If you want a rough idea, it’s apparently what makes Catholic social teaching difficult to implement in this country.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacienda_system

Ah, I see.

I was born in Manila but moved to the US when I was 2, so much of Filipino governance/politics is foreign to me.

 

[KathleenGee]

My husband was born in Manila and came here in 1972…he told me about some things…he is from a land owner class, but my father in law fought Marcos in working for greater distribution of land…and he and my mother in law had to escape Marcos and thus came here.

I was reading up also on the work of freemasonry…and they went to the Philippines to further malign the Catholic Church…my husband’s region was a Dominican province (ecclesial term here)…and the freemasons calumniated (made up false stories) about the Dominicans there.

The Spanish colonialists were always at odds with the Church going back to Spain…the pope at the time of the beginning of the Inquisition was misdirected by a Spanish Dominican friar, but the situation was rectified. The actual documents of the Spanish Inquisition were not released until August of 2003, and it revealed what many pondered, that the Church exonerated very many of the accused, and the punishments by the clerics were not severe…using feathers to tickle to get truth…non Catholics were committing sacrilege against the Eucharist by receiving without faith.

The Spanish colonialists were very abusive towards Mexican Indians and the Church again was constantly working to stop mistreatment.

I don’t know the history of the Spanish Catholic priests and their treatment of the Filipinos, however.

I did read a source awhile back that the misinformation about the Spanish Inquisition was the work of two American Restorationists who got hold of some documents that were available in the 1800’s and expounded on them, and greatly exaggerated the wrongs that were done. God help us.

Constantine TG…you are a very good Catholic!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t know the history of the Spanish Catholic priests and their treatment of the Filipinos, however.

According to the general consensus of Philippine history books, almost the complete reverse of what you read about the Spanish clergy in Mexico.

 

[trdchubi]

I’m afraid you really need to do some reviewing and this time, ‘buy’ into it because it’s not very smart to not ‘buy’ into historical fact. The problem with many actively Catholic Filipinos who take angles like yours is that they fall into the trap of equating Spain with the Catholic Church. If anything, Spain infected the clergy with unsavory, power-hungry individuals.

Much of what was wrong during the Spanish days still lives on in our own society. Back in my elementary and high school days, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard students rehearse “Land of Bondage, Land of the Free”.

Finally, in no way do my words indicate that we should not take responsibility. I am however simply pointing out the roots from which the ills of modern Filipino society grew from.

P.S.

I suggest you re-read El Filibusterismo. It actually has one or two redeeming Spanish protagonists (one of them a priest).

Spain represented the Catholic church since the 1600s, NO uneducated Filipino back then knew about a Holy See. It was just Spain, that was composed of the Spaniard colonizers and of course the Augustinian, Franciscan and Dominican friars.

I am forever grateful to Spain for colonizing the Philippines islands. The introduction of the Catholic faith is what makes this country a staging ground for Christian missionary works for the rest of Asia and the world. Anything ill contribution they made knowingly or unknowingly in the Philippine society are but trivial and unimportant.

By the way reading Philippine history literature is always a tragedy, it’s a sad read. We are good on blaming everything to the Spaniards, the Americans, the Japanese or practically on everyone else rather than ourselves.

Let’s dwell on what is the most essential thing the Spaniards did, which you already pointed out.

P.S.

I detest the anti-friar propaganda made by the reformists with the likes of Rizal, Del Pilar, Lopez-Jaena et al. They were based from isolated cases of abuses made by the religious and the authors have the tendencies of generalization or exaggeration. Unless of course they have a fast and reliable way of getting their information right, everything they wrote were just overstatements.

 

[trdchubi]

My husband was born in Manila and came here in 1972…he told me about some things…he is from a land owner class, but my father in law fought Marcos in working for greater distribution of land…and he and my mother in law had to escape Marcos and thus came here.

I was reading up also on the work of freemasonry…and they went to the Philippines to further malign the Catholic Church…my husband’s region was a Dominican province (ecclesial term here)…and the freemasons calumniated (made up false stories) about the Dominicans there.

The Spanish colonialists were always at odds with the Church going back to Spain…the pope at the time of the beginning of the Inquisition was misdirected by a Spanish Dominican friar, but the situation was rectified. The actual documents of the Spanish Inquisition were not released until August of 2003, and it revealed what many pondered, that the Church exonerated very many of the accused, and the punishments by the clerics were not severe…using feathers to tickle to get truth…non Catholics were committing sacrilege against the Eucharist by receiving without faith.

The Spanish colonialists were very abusive towards Mexican Indians and the Church again was constantly working to stop mistreatment.

I don’t know the history of the Spanish Catholic priests and their treatment of the Filipinos, however.

I did read a source awhile back that the misinformation about the Spanish Inquisition was the work of two American Restorationists who got hold of some documents that were available in the 1800’s and expounded on them, and greatly exaggerated the wrongs that were done. God help us.

Constantine TG…you are a very good Catholic!

Precisely the Spanish colonial government did not always see eye to eye with the Holy See.The problem was this same government also represented the Catholic church. This Spanish colonialists, the very people representing Spain, think only of its interest which was expansion and colonization. Abusing natives were necessary to put social order among the colonies which brought nothing but misery to the Philippines.

Spain arch-rival, England is also adding problems to the fray. Wars ravaged the Spaniards locally and abroad. The Philippines bankrupted their national coffers. It is understandable that Spain has put their own citizens first on the expense of the natives.

 

[VeronicaRebecca]

I just wish the protestant groups would leave the Catholics alone. Protestants for the most part are so against the Catholic faith that they literally make things up about what Catholics do and don’t believe. We should all pray there are many conversions to Catholicism all over the world. The Catholic Church is the one, true church founded by Jesus Christ. Perhaps if we pray everyday the time will come when the Church will not be persecuted at every turn by those who do not believe in the Catholic faith.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Anything ill contribution they made knowingly or unknowingly in the Philippine society are but trivial and unimportant.

Trivial and unimportant? I’m not even that patriotic but even I would find it hard to call you a man of this country for saying this. The revolution, our fight for independence, and the recognition of ourselves as a nation wouldn’t have happened if our forefathers weren’t fed up with something.

That something was colonial rule. The rule that began with the Spanish.

Heck I’m an anime fan and even I don’t deny or trivialize Japanese atrocities.

By the way reading Philippine history literature is always a tragedy, it’s a sad read. We are good on blaming everything to the Spaniards, the Americans, the Japanese or practically on everyone else rather than ourselves.

Oho trust me when I say I’m all for making out how ridiculous the modern Filipino is. But guess what? You’re still more likely to attribute these flaws to foreign influence. You’re free to look for some of these flaws in our pre-colonial ancestors but do keep in mind that Spanish missionaries had a blast making sure we could never get a full picture of them.

I detest the anti-friar propaganda made by the reformists with the likes of Rizal, Del Pilar, Lopez-Jaena et al. They were based from isolated cases of abuses made by the religious and the authors have the tendencies of generalization or exaggeration. Unless of course they have a fast and reliable way of getting their information right, everything they wrote were just overstatements.

Isolated cases? Where’s your proof? And please, use your common sense. People wouldn’t revolt because of a few ‘isolated’ incidents. 300 years of colonization yet you naively assume that Spanish clerical abuses were too far and few in between? Don’t underestimate communication during those times. It may not be as fast paced now but word still got around a lot more than you imply.

Wherever you’re getting your revisionist history, I’m glad it’s not being taught in our schools. Public education here is bad enough without putting more lies into Filipino children’s heads.

 

[rinnie]

Honestly I feel the same. I don’t like when people make a spectacle of themselves; I pray the holy rosary nightly, but I do it in a quiet meditative setting so that I feel connected with God, Jesus, Mary, etc. Manny should say his prayers the night before, besides we don’t pray for things like “winning” or “lottery”. Actions speak volumes about who you are and if you’re truly a good Catholic others will just know from those actions. I don’t like it when people broadcast it and I certainly do not like it when people wear the rosary around their neck. It’s a holy blessed rosary, not anybody’s BLING. (I think some call it) I too carry a rosary everywhere I go, in my pocket, in my glove box and I quietly say my prayers to keep me in touch with my God and my faith. I don’t fall to my knees at work and pray for others to see, I pray in silence and sincerely for peace, love, happiness and for the petitions of friends in need. But that’s just me I guess.

Well I guess because you do not know the mind of the person praying. For example my team is the Steelers. There is no one who prays and blesses themself before and after every play more the Troy.

He was asked one time why do you do that. He said I ask God to please not let me hurt anyone or have anyone get hurt on every down and play.

But it is funny how they want to take prayer out of schools they did it. Boy look at our schools today

It is his freedom of speech to do whatever he wants. What harm does it do to show a Child your faith in Jesus Christ?

Are they not supposed to be role models. It seems when they are bad ones they are loved, Good ones they are condemned:shrug:

 

[katherine2001]

However, Troy doesn’t make a spectacle of himself when he does that.
There is a difference between crossing yourself and kneeling down on the field when you pretty well know that the cameras are going to be on you. The first time it happened, Tim Tebow probably had no idea that it would be caught by the cameras, but now he does know. He could sit on the bench with his head bowed, and people would know that he is praying. With all due respect, if Troy was doing what Tim Tebow does, his priest or spiritual father would be having a word with him about it (I don’t know if his priest is his spiritual father or one of the monks at the Orthodox monastery he often visits is). Jesus told us to pray in secret and not make a big show of praying in public, and that is probably what Troy would be told. Of course, there are times for group prayer, but is the football field the place for that? I’ve watched quite a few Steelers games, and I haven’t noticed the cameramen focusing on Troy ever time he crosses himself