Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

[AbideWithMe]

I agree that devotion to Mary is not in the same catagory as burying statues of St. Jude. When I was writing my post, originally I made a distinction between the two in parentheses, but then deleted that part because I couldn’t find the words I wanted without making a very long sentence.

I did include my shortened parenthentical statement about St. Jude statues because is does puzzle me. I know this is seemingly off topic, but I’ve seen multiple varieties of St.Jude house-selling kits on a Catholic supply website, including a book explaining why it is not a superstition.

I bring this up not to be inflammatory, but for another reason. My best friend in high school was a charismatic Catholic. We always accepted each other’s faith as real and deep. I had a teacher in high school, too, who led an after-school Bible study; she used to let me ride her small horse which her kids had gotten too big to ride, so I spent quite a bit of time with her. Her husband was Catholic, and she converted to Catholicism so they could worship together. I did not think she made a mistake and was somehow less genuinely Christian.

I’ve also known other Catholics, some practicing and some nominal, and read plenty of Catholic authors throughout my life as a Christian. And, as I said to Kathleengee before on this thread, I’ve been a part of a smaller mostly Catholic forum for nearly 3 years.

But, as I said when I spoke of the St. Jude statues, I’m still puzzled by some aspects of Catholicism. Catholicism is both familiar and “other” to me. It’s not uncommon, when something is “other”, to be kind of spooky (spooky like a horse) towards it. As much as I’m not spooky about most Marian devotion, some of it—such as the push for the Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix title by a sizable number of Catholics----is disturbing. While I try not to be reactionary and spooky, sometimes I am. I often have seen chain-letter type prayers to St. Jude taken out in the classified ads in the newspaper, and I’ve heard people saying the buried statue helped them; I assumed it was superstition until I saw there was a book defending why it is not. So, I am puzzled.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Jharek—I have to get to work, but I’ll look for the book later.It seemed to me it was being sold by a major Catholic religious supply store on the web, not a “fringe” website, but I’ll look for it later and you can tell me what you make of the book and the store since you would know better than I would if it’s fringe stuff or not.

In my usual meandering way, I think I’ve failed to be clear on why I’m connecting St. Jude statues and undeclared Marian teachings such as the Co-Mediatrix label with this thread. I’m just trying to say that for non-Catholics, who see Catholicism from the outside, some things can cause concern. From that concern or puzzlement, we can be reactionary while being aware that we’re being reactionary, or unaware that we’re being reactionary. From that initial reaction, we can move on to try to understand where Catholics are coming from in their beliefs, or we can ignorantly judge them. OR, we can try to understand where they are coming from and still respectfully disagree.

It seemed to me that “Evangelicals and Catholics Together” does the latter when difficult doctrinal issues come up.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Jharek—

The use of “sheep-stealing” was in direct response to its use in “Evangelicals and Catholics Together”. The latter has to read in full to understand the SBC resolution’s context, I believe.

 

[Calgar]

Jharek—

The use of “sheep-stealing” was in direct response to its use in “Evangelicals and Catholics Together”. The latter has to read in full to understand the SBC resolution’s context, I believe.

I can understand where it comes from.

When a Roman Catholic (usually an entire family in my experience) leaves the RC Church, and comes to a Southern Baptist one, the priest and others compain that the SBC is “stealing” members of the RC Church.

On the opposite side, some SBC ministers have done the same thing when a Southern Baptist goes to the RC Church.

In my region the RC Church and the SBC have agreements not to evangilize each others members. However, if a person, on their own, seeks out and engages either church then it’s supposed to be ok.

Charges of “sheep stealing” still fly around even when the person, or family, in question was not evangilized and chose on their own to change churches.

 

[stewstew03]

I can understand where it comes from.

When a Roman Catholic (usually an entire family in my experience) leaves the RC Church, and comes to a Southern Baptist one, the priest and others compain that the SBC is “stealing” members of the RC Church.

On the opposite side, some SBC ministers have done the same thing when a Southern Baptist goes to the RC Church.

In my region the RC Church and the SBC have agreements not to evangilize each others members. However, if a person, on their own, seeks out and engages either church then it’s supposed to be ok.

Charges of “sheep stealing” still fly around even when the person, or family, in question was not evangilized and chose on their own to change churches.

A point of distinction should be made here, and that is this: the NAMB actively seeks to evangelize Catholics and yet the reverse is not true.

 

[Calgar]

Huh? No mention of protestants on here telling Catholics that they are the ones who are wrong?

A bit of a chip on your shoulder, perhaps?

lol.

Not at all, I’m sure. It’s just that protestant posts dealing in what you speak of end up erased in short order.

 

[Calgar]

the NAMB actively seeks to evangelize Catholics and yet the reverse is not true.

Yes, they do. Happens all the time, sometimes violently.

Also, why are you so worried about RCs being evangelized? If they are strong in their faith then no amount of evangelization will matter.

 

[Calgar]

Is every person who says they are a Christian a Christian? Come on, I don’t buy it.

I was an atheist who attended church regularly for years.

Church membership isn’t a great method for determining if someone is a Christian or not.

As for this dudes ministry: I agree, if he is wasting time and resources evangelising other Christians it’s wrong.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Is every person who says they are a Christian a Christian? Come on, I don’t buy it.

I was an atheist who attended church regularly for years.

Church membership isn’t a great method for determining if someone is a Christian or not.

As for this dudes ministry: I agree, if he is wasting time and resources evangelising other Christians it’s wrong.

Remember where they are coming from. If a Catholic priest baptized someone not only are they Christian but Catholic and thus if anyone else comes along they are poaching, especially if the King of Spain had a colony there at one time.

 

[oneofmany]

Well if he can get Catholics to listen to him and change maybe they weren’t strong Catholics to begin with. My SIL is Baptist now but grew up in a Catholic family. They go on missions to preach the gospel around the country at times and I am sure they preach to Catholics. We don’t hate her for doing it. I don’t think they are coming from a hateful place. They just practice their faith and for the most part it is the same as ours.

I would hope someone could talk to the dad about his ideas on Catholics if he is willing to listen. If we have Catholic missionaries in the same areas they can do a lot to correct many misconceptions.

 

[Calgar]

Well if he can get Catholics to listen to him and change maybe they weren’t strong Catholics to begin with.

Pretty much.

 

[HollyDolly]

Well, I think Tim’s dad is forgetting something.There are people in the Phillipines who are also muslims. Guess that little fact escaped him.Can’t think right now where they mainly are,but they are there.Wonder how that’s going to go down over there.

 

[Kristin234]

Being Catholic and having friends who are Protestant missionaries, I’ve really always wished we could work together. We’re supposed to be converting the non-believer, not chasing the members of the “other side”. I’ve asked my protestant friends, “so, when you count how many Christians are in a country, you’re counting ALL or just your denomination?” I get mutters and no answer. I know a friend’s friend went to save the people in Poland…um…I was rather insulted. It’s a Catholic Country. Try saving the people in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

I really do wish we’d just work together as missionaries. We’d get a lot farther probably.

Just because Poland is a Catholic country does not mean all are Catholic, and the same goes for Iran. Not all Iranians are considered Muslim. I have a friend who did missionary work in Poland and all over Africa. Of course there were way more people in Africa who had no idea who Jesus was, but she said you would be amazed by the number of people in Poland who had never known or even heard of Jesus Christ. It isn’t that impossible to believe.

As far as working together as missionaries, I do believe that if Protestants and Catholics worked together they would be able to get a lot farther.

 

[Kristin234]

Well, I think Tim’s dad is forgetting something.There are people in the Phillipines who are also muslims. Guess that little fact escaped him.Can’t think right now where they mainly are,but they are there.Wonder how that’s going to go down over there.

It isn’t going to go too well. My fiance is Filipino and he said that that area is very dangerous. They are not afraid to kill.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

In my region the RC Church and the SBC have agreements not to evangilize each others members. However, if a person, on their own, seeks out and engages either church then it’s supposed to be ok.

Charges of “sheep stealing” still fly around even when the person, or family, in question was not evangilized and chose on their own to change churches.

Um, did you not read the exact words here?

Be it further RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention affirm its commitment to evangelism and missionary witness among populations and individuals not characterized by genuine faith in Christ alone, and we reject any suggestion that such witness be characterized as “sheep stealing” proselytizing or a wasteful use of resources;

A person switching church’s of his/her own volition is the type that a missionary does not approach. Putting evangelism and sheep stealing together while saying the former shouldn’t be called the latter sure gives me grounds for strong suspicions.

Again, if you don’t want to be accused of ‘sheep stealing’ then start evangelizing the wilder animals out there.

Is every person who says they are a Christian a Christian? Come on, I don’t buy it

Fallen-away members of a church are a problem but they’re a problem that should be left for the respective members of a Church to deal with. What Mr. Tebow here is doing is nothing short of unwarranted meddling. Let us deal with our flock and we’ll let him deal with his own.

It isn’t going to go too well. My fiance is Filipino and he said that that area is very dangerous. They are not afraid to kill.

It’s dangerous further down south but that still depends on the cities. Folks like the Abu Sayyaf still exist but they’re no longer as widely feared.

In my city at least, if neither the army or the police get to you, the vigilantes and government guns-for-hire will.

One thing’s for sure, we’re no longer comparable to the Middle East.

P.S.

On that note, I don’t think the likes of Tebow are out of options even if you did take out the alternatives of Muslim countries.

What about Asian regions like Hong Kong, Singapore, or Japan even? No terrorists there and the culture is far from Christian.

I mean don’t tell me that you all actually believe those places are filled with fist-o-fury kung fu masters, buff bald monks, katana-slashing yakuza, and ninja school girls? <— Warning: Nerd humor

 

[Calgar]

katana-slashing yakuza, and ninja school girls

There are a few. I married one.

 

[AbideWithMe]

(name removed by moderator)—

I don’t want to derail this thread, but here is the book I mentioned this morning, about burying a Saint statue to help sell a house. (The saint is St. Joseph, sometimes used with a medal of St. Jude for really hard to sell houses—I got the wrong Saint this morning.):

amazon.com/St-Joseph-Real-Estate-Agent/dp/1569553610

The author has a biography further down the page, with actually quite good credentials: graduate degrees from Gregorian University, The Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome, and Hebrew University in Jerusalem. So, well, I guess he can make a case for the statue burying not being a superstition, but it still leaves me feeling rather leery of the whole enterprise.

On the Amazon page also are some of the plastic St. Joseph house-selling kits for sale.

 

[Luvtosew]

Um, did you not read the exact words here?

A person switching church’s of his/her own volition is the type that a missionary does not approach. Putting evangelism and sheep stealing together while saying the former shouldn’t be called the latter sure gives me grounds for strong suspicions.

Again, if you don’t want to be accused of ‘sheep stealing’ then start evangelizing the wilder animals out there.

Fallen-away members of a church are a problem but they’re a problem that should be left for the respective members of a Church to deal with. What Mr. Tebow here is doing is nothing short of unwarranted meddling. Let us deal with our flock and we’ll let him deal with his own.

It’s dangerous further down south but that still depends on the cities. Folks like the Abu Sayyaf still exist but they’re no longer as widely feared.

In my city at least, if neither the army or the police get to you, the vigilantes and government guns-for-hire will.

One thing’s for sure, we’re no longer comparable to the Middle East.

P.S.

On that note, I don’t think the likes of Tebow are out of options even if you did take out the alternatives of Muslim countries.

What about Asian regions like Hong Kong, Singapore, or Japan even? No terrorists there and the culture is far from Christian.

I mean don’t tell me that you all actually believe those places are filled with fist-o-fury kung fu masters, buff bald monks, katana-slashing yakuza, and ninja school girls? <— Warning: Nerd humor

Sheep stealing?? Well let the CC go and feed their sheep then, or another shepard might arrive.

 

[AbideWithMe]

P.S.

On that note, I don’t think the likes of Tebow are out of options even if you did take out the alternatives of Muslim countries.

What about Asian regions like Hong Kong, Singapore, or Japan even? No terrorists there and the culture is far from Christian.

I mean don’t tell me that you all actually believe those places are filled with fist-o-fury kung fu masters, buff bald monks, katana-slashing yakuza, and ninja school girls? <— Warning: Nerd humor

Protestant missionaries are indeed in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Japan.

 

[AbideWithMe]

A person switching church’s of his/her own volition is the type that a missionary does not approach.

Are people actually switching churches against their will? That’s a real question, not a rhetorical one.