Time for Parents to Resist Transgender Activism

[frobert]

We have governments outlawing reparative therapy.

Quote:
. . . The Seattle City Council today approved an ordinance barring licensed health care providers from subjecting anyone under 18 to “ex-gay” therapy, sometimes called “conversion” or “reparative” therapy, designed to turn LGBT people straight or cisgender. Every major U.S. health care organization has termed the practice not only ineffective but harmful. . . .

advocate.com/politics/201…therapy-minors

Does this not implicitly DENY gender “fluidity”.

Or is “gender fluidity” only “healthy” and “normal” when is violates nature?

Or is it some other “belief system” that should be accepted concerning all of this?

Can you explain on how outlawing an harmful, ineffective* and unethical therapy denies gender “fluidity?”

*9 Ex-Leaders of the Gay Conversion Therapy Movement Apologize

The former gay conversion leaders, including Schneider, Brad Allen, Darlene Bogle, Michael Bussee, Catherine Chapman, Jeremy Marks, Bill Prickett, Tim Rymel, and John Smid, are joining the National Center for Lesbian Rights’ #BornPerfect movement aimed at expanding state bans on conversion therapy.

“Conversion therapy reinforces internalized homophobia, anxiety, guilt and depression. It leads to self-loathing and emotional and psychological harm when change doesn’t happen,”… “We now stand united in our conviction that conversion therapy is not “therapy,” but is instead both ineffective and harmful.

“Once a young woman asked me,
“How does it feel to be a man?”
And I replied,
“My dear, I am not so sure.”
Then she said,
“Well, aren’t you a man?”
And this time I replied,
“I view gender
As a beautiful animal
That people often take for a walk on a leash
And might try to enter in some odd contest
To try to win prizes.
“My dear,
A better question for Hafiz
Would have been,
“How does it feel to be a heart?”
For all I know is
Love,
And I find my heart
Infinite
And
Everywhere!”
– Hafiz

 

[NM505StKate]

Can you explain on how outlawing an harmful, ineffective* and unethical therapy denies gender “fluidity?”

*9 Ex-Leaders of the Gay Conversion Therapy Movement Apologize

“Once a young woman asked me,
“How does it feel to be a man?”
And I replied,
“My dear, I am not so sure.”
Then she said,
“Well, aren’t you a man?”
And this time I replied,
“I view gender
As a beautiful animal
That people often take for a walk on a leash
And might try to enter in some odd contest
To try to win prizes.
“My dear,
A better question for Hafiz
Would have been,
“How does it feel to be a heart?”
For all I know is
Love,
And I find my heart
Infinite
And
Everywhere!”
– Hafiz

That is a pretty good quote. Yeah “conversion therapy” is horrible.

 

[edwest2]

Any person wishing to seek help for unwanted homosexual attraction should have this option by law. Apparently, others “think” this is wrong but it is only an unlikely risk to the individual who can sign a waiver if need be.

pfox.org/

Ed

 

[Cathoholic]

Frobert. You asked me . . . .

Can you explain on how outlawing an harmful, ineffective* and unethical therapy denies gender “fluidity?”

No but I can explain why outlawing something that is safe, effective, and ethical, implicitly DENIES gender “fluidity” if that “something” is AFFIRMING of orientation “fluidity” while at the same time OUTLAWING attempts at “fluidity” right back to a manner consistent with a person’s nature.

All the psychotherapists who join NARTH agree on one essential point–that reorientation therapy is ethical, and that it can be effective for clients who seek it. All strongly defend the client’s right to choose his own direction in treatment.

josephnicolosi.com/what-is-homosexuality-reorient/

I’ve asked others (here), and now Frobert, I will ask you:

Frobert.

If Shaq (see Shaq here), who is a male, gets some “fluid” FEELINGS like he is NOW a FEMALE, would you say it is OK for Shaq to now resume his professional basketball career in . . . . the WOMENS NBA?

How about if Shaq is feeling like a “kid”, is it OK for him to go “tear up” in little league boys basketball group?

Or would you say despite those “feelings” of his, for you to affirm him in this delusion, would unfairly affect others?

And if you say “no”, WHO gets to be the “fairness referee” in your belief system? Nature, or a committee of “experts”?

 

[NM505StKate]

Any person wishing to seek help for unwanted homosexual attraction should have this option by law. Apparently, others “think” this is wrong but it is only an unlikely risk to the individual who can sign a waiver if need be.

pfox.org/

Ed

What would make the feelings unwanted other than shame brought on by a society that sees it as shameful? I do believe the Native Americans were accepting of homosexual relationships before the Europeans. Thailand is fairly open about gender fluidity. Only people that seem upset are one that have been taught that it is “icky” and a “sin”.

 

[Rau]

What would make the feelings unwanted other than shame brought on by a society that sees it as shameful?

The feelings act to eliminate the possibility of forming a family as did one’s own parents, with children the offspring of their parents. I can imagine that to be an unwanted state of affairs. The feelings act to draw one towards behaviours that are incongruent with the evident nature of the body. I can imagine that to be an unwanted state of affairs. And these observations are so far without direct reference to shame, ickyness, morality or sin. Just the application of reason.

 

[Rau]

Any person wishing to seek help for unwanted homosexual attraction should have this option by law. Apparently, others “think” this is wrong but it is only an unlikely risk to the individual who can sign a waiver if need be.
pfox.org/

Those options permitted by law often exclude those judged to be unsafe or to make unjustifiable claims. But with that observation, your statement is clearly correct.

 

[edwest2]

What would make the feelings unwanted other than shame brought on by a society that sees it as shameful? I do believe the Native Americans were accepting of homosexual relationships before the Europeans. Thailand is fairly open about gender fluidity. Only people that seem upset are one that have been taught that it is “icky” and a “sin”.

Then groups like pfox wouldn’t exist.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

The feelings act to eliminate the possibility of forming a family as did one’s own parents, with children the offspring of their parents. I can imagine that to be an unwanted state of affairs. The feelings act to draw one towards behaviours that are incongruent with the evident nature of the body. I can imagine that to be an unwanted state of affairs. And these observations are so far without direct reference to shame, ickyness, morality or sin. Just the application of reason.

Well said.

Ed

 

[MJDorry]

What would make the feelings unwanted other than shame brought on by a society that sees it as shameful? I do believe the Native Americans were accepting of homosexual relationships before the Europeans. Thailand is fairly open about gender fluidity. Only people that seem upset are one that have been taught that it is “icky” and a “sin”.

Would you shut up about Native Americans already? How other cultures and societies handle the matter is of no consequence on what God wants for us. And let’s properly categorize this issue. Homosexual “conversion therapy”, which has rightly been found to be ineffective, is not the same as therapy for “gender fluidity”.

Homosexuality is an inborn sexual orientation toward others of the same sex. There are people who claim to be bisexual and “pansexual”, but there has yet to emerge “sexual fluidity”, in which on some days, a person thoroughly dislikes the sexual thought of being with a person of a particular sex, and then on other days in the same week, they feel like going on a sex spree with those same people.

Which is should hint at why “gender fluidity” would be a distressing condition. As a man who was always a man, if I woke up tomorrow feeling like a woman, I wouldn’t be distressed because I got it in my head that society has taught me it’s shameful to want to be the other sex from what you are. I’d be distressed because my point of internal self-reference drastically changed over night. The rational part of mind would kick and tell me there’s something wrong with my brain.

If you’re “gender fluid”—which is to say that inwardly, you feel like your gender is constantly shifting, so that some days you feel entirely feminine, other days you feel entirely masculine, and yet other days you feel like neither or an odd admixture of both—there’s an underlying medical issue precisely because your self-identity is constantly shifting. We don’t encourage people with DPD and MPD to accept that they really, truly are all of their personalities in the moment that each personality emerges. We try to provide them with therapy and medicine so that they can eliminate the alters and attain to a unified sense of self.

 

[Thorolfr]

The feelings act to eliminate the possibility of forming a family as did one’s own parents, with children the offspring of their parents.

So are adopted children somehow second class children of their adoptive parents because they’re not biological offspring? In addition, I know a number of gay couples who have children and some straight couples who have decided not to have children.

 

[Rau]

So are adopted children somehow second class children of their adoptive parents because they’re not biological offspring? In addition, I know a number of gay couples who have children and some straight couples who have decided not to have children.

Re-read my post. None of what you write contradicts what I wrote.

 

[Finite]

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand transgenderism, but what I’m seeing a lot of is history repeating itself. It wasn’t that long ago that homosexuality was seen as a mental illness (some here still believe that), and it was only deemed not to be because of “the homosexual lobby” and their “agenda”…apparently, it couldn’t possibly be that as our society progresses, we become wiser and gain a better understanding of what it is to be human.

Our human lives our complex, mysterious, mystifying, and curious. Whether you believe it was God that created us or if you believe it’s all just a random quirk of nature, it’s beautiful.

I do not understand transgenderism. But gender dysphoria is a very real thing that a lot of great minds are still learning about and beginning to understand. I have a niece who identifies as male. I have not quite come to terms with it because I do not understand it. But I am getting there. When my son came out to me as gay, it was a very similar feeling. But over the years, I’ve watched as he grew up and became a great dad along with his husband who he has spent the last 12 years with. I am a doting father who couldn’t be prouder of the man he has become.

I do not think the God I believe will condemn my son and his spouse to hell for loving each other and their family. I do not think they are sinning. I do not think they are depraved. I think they are human beings with a variant of sexuality different from mine. God doesn’t make mistakes. Certainly not in what is supposedly around 3% of the population. And my God would not make so many people gay as a “test” or a cross to bear. It’s needlessly cruel.

I’m choosing to remain open minded about someone who is trans. I can’t possibly understand what is going on in their minds, but considering most medical professionals recommend these people get therapy, and go on to recommend many of those people move forward in their transition, I’m going to think they make those calls based on knowledge and experience, not politics or religious beliefs. I can’t imagine they make those recommendations lightly.

We can’t shield our children from everything. God knows we’ve all tried (and failed, spectacularly! ). Personally, I would rather children be taught about the diversity of our world and the people in it, and that we are all still human. To teach a child to respect others isn’t political or against anyone’s religious teachings. At least, I hope not.

If a parent wants to limit what their child is taught (or rather, delay it, because one way or another your child WILL be exposed to the world), that is their prerogative. I am all for giving parents an opt-out option. Otherwise, private schools and home school is an option.

 

[edwest2]

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand transgenderism, but what I’m seeing a lot of is history repeating itself. It wasn’t that long ago that homosexuality was seen as a mental illness (some here still believe that), and it was only deemed not to be because of “the homosexual lobby” and their “agenda”…apparently, it couldn’t possibly be that as our society progresses, we become wiser and gain a better understanding of what it is to be human.

Our human lives our complex, mysterious, mystifying, and curious. Whether you believe it was God that created us or if you believe it’s all just a random quirk of nature, it’s beautiful.

I do not understand transgenderism. But gender dysphoria is a very real thing that a lot of great minds are still learning about and beginning to understand. I have a niece who identifies as male. I have not quite come to terms with it because I do not understand it. But I am getting there. When my son came out to me as gay, it was a very similar feeling. But over the years, I’ve watched as he grew up and became a great dad along with his husband who he has spent the last 12 years with. I am a doting father who couldn’t be prouder of the man he has become.

I do not think the God I believe will condemn my son and his spouse to hell for loving each other and their family. I do not think they are sinning. I do not think they are depraved. I think they are human beings with a variant of sexuality different from mine. God doesn’t make mistakes. Certainly not in what is supposedly around 3% of the population. And my God would not make so many people gay as a “test” or a cross to bear. It’s needlessly cruel.

I’m choosing to remain open minded about someone who is trans. I can’t possibly understand what is going on in their minds, but considering most medical professionals recommend these people get therapy, and go on to recommend many of those people move forward in their transition, I’m going to think they make those calls based on knowledge and experience, not politics or religious beliefs. I can’t imagine they make those recommendations lightly.

We can’t shield our children from everything. God knows we’ve all tried (and failed, spectacularly! ). Personally, I would rather children be taught about the diversity of our world and the people in it, and that we are all still human. To teach a child to respect others isn’t political or against anyone’s religious teachings. At least, I hope not.

If a parent wants to limit what their child is taught (or rather, delay it, because one way or another your child WILL be exposed to the world), that is their prerogative. I am all for giving parents an opt-out option. Otherwise, private schools and home school is an option.

I don’t think most medical professionals are trying to get these people therapy. The product being marketing here is referred to as “sex change surgery,” and by other names. Once this body modification occurs, men are now women, and so on. This artificial process is just that, artificial.

Of course these people are human like the rest of us but they appear to be suffering from confusion.

The media will market this as a good thing only.

lifesitenews.com/news/former-johns-hopkins-head-psychiatrist-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solutio

Ed

 

[JimG]

Flexible genders and fanciful selves.

 

[Finite]

I don’t think most medical professionals are trying to get these people therapy. The product being marketing here is referred to as “sex change surgery,” and by other names. Once this body modification occurs, men are now women, and so on. This artificial process is just that, artificial.

Of course these people are human like the rest of us but they appear to be suffering from confusion.

The media will market this as a good thing only.

lifesitenews.com/news/former-johns-hopkins-head-psychiatrist-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solutio

Ed

A trans person cannot just walk into the office of a plastic surgeon and request a sex change. They almost always require counseling and therapy.

 

[goout]

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand transgenderism, but what I’m seeing a lot of is history repeating itself. It wasn’t that long ago that homosexuality was seen as a mental illness (some here still believe that), and it was only deemed not to be because of “the homosexual lobby” and their “agenda”…apparently, it couldn’t possibly be that as our society progresses, **we become wiser and gain a better understanding of what it is to be human.
**

How familiar are you with the history of the last… 100 years?

No reasonable case can be made that we are a more human culture/world than we were before the genocides of the 20th century, one of which is still ongoing.
Just looking at the US, you could make a reasonable case, based on body count alone, that we are the most efficiently barbaric society in recorded history.

 

[edwest2]

A trans person cannot just walk into the office of a plastic surgeon and request a sex change. They almost always require counseling and therapy.

I know what’s involved. I worked at a major hospital and spoke with a few surgeons who did the procedure and know the requirements. My point is: the marketing plan is not what happens before surgery but what happens after is perfectly fine. It’s a marketing campaign. As I wrote earlier, individual confusion is involved.

Ed

 

[Finite]

How familiar are you with the history of the last… 100 years?

No reasonable case can be made that we are a more human culture/world than we were before the genocides of the 20th century, one of which is still ongoing.
Just looking at the US, you could make a reasonable case, based on body count alone, that we are the most efficiently barbaric society in recorded history.

I’m not sure how the fact that society as a whole hasn’t figured out how to permanently end war and hatred has anything to do with medical, psychiatric and scientific advances and understanding.

I know what’s involved. I worked at a major hospital and spoke with a few surgeons who did the procedure and know the requirements. My point is: the marketing plan is not what happens before surgery but what happens after is perfectly fine. It’s a marketing campaign. As I wrote earlier, individual confusion is involved.

Ed

I volunteer at a community center and know many, many transgender people (though it wasn’t until fairly recently that I began to really look into what they go through). You and I both have anecdotal evidence as I don’t know of any study that looks at motivations behind sex change operations.

That said, sex change operations are actually pretty uncommon. For starters, most can’t afford it. Others are perfectly content taking the more common route of hormone therapy.

I’m confused as to what you mean by “marketing plan”. Is this in the same vein as the whole “homosexual agenda” conspiracy? If so, i’d rather not go down that road. It people wanting to live their lives without fear and persecution is an “agenda”, count me in.

The trans issue isn’t widespread. It effects a smaller percentage of people than those who identify as gay and lesbian. From the many people I’ve met who identify as trans, none are trying to cram any kind of agenda down anyone’s throat. They simply wanted the comfort of being protected from ignorance-fueled discrimination and violence (something they experience substantially more of than many other minority groups).

For example, the whole fuss over bathroom use. They’re not angrily demanding they be allowed to use the restroom they want. It’s not that black and white. Many of them have already been using the restroom of the gender they consider themselves as without issue. But the right wing has turned this issue into “pedophiles wanting to follow children into restrooms”, a ridiculous claim.

I have yet to hear of any public school or entity encouraging kids to “become trans”. Too many parents fear that this is happening (it isn’t), and that their children will be taught that a girl being a tomboy is actually trans, or an introverted and not-so-masculine boy is trans. People who believe that are demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of what a trans person actually is, and therefore are in no position to add anything of substance to the discussion.

 

[Rau]

…I do not think the God I believe will condemn my son and his spouse to hell for loving each other and their family. I do not think they are sinning. I do not think they are depraved. I think they are human beings with a variant of sexuality different from mine. God doesn’t make mistakes.

I don’t know the relevance of your last sentence. The human condition is full of persons with all manner of disabilities, afflictions and inclinations to evil.

And why on earth would you imagine God would condemn anyone for loving others? What one does in the name of love cannot be equated with “love” itself. The sexual acts of two men in a bed together have to be evaluated as such, and that they love each other does not determine that those acts are good. I think it unlikely that God wills man to exchange his gametes with another man. As an act, that seems to me to be a mistake.