Time to leave parish

[BobP123]

I recently did the same thing. Although there were no major abuses, I felt I was better served by changing parishes.

The parish I now belong to has both the Ordinary Form (NO) and Extraordinary Form (TLM) Masses. I go exclusively to the Ordinary Form Mass which is celebrated.

And I go to the Extraordinary Form. Had no choice but to switch parishes.

 

[Silver_Thread]

Incredible response folks, thank you.

Wander, if I found a parish like yours, I would be ecstatic. There is a parish (actualy I live in its territory) that has a rather good NO. I go there on the Sundays I do not serve.

Its hard to convey in a post, or in email, the entirety of my frustrations, and especially avoid sounding like a whiner. This decision has been working on my mind for about a year now. I suppose I could remain working with RCIA, and just go to Mass elsewhere, but I believe that would make me feel the traitor. All in all, this is a rough process.

Liturgy plays a huge role in my decision, but it goes beyond that, it goes to the people, to the indifference, to the Social Justice on and on.

I feel your pain as well! Been there and left! Do not discount the moving of the Holy Spirit in your life. Listen and obey. He will guide you. God Bless. Your in my prayers.

 

[Sarah02]

We had a similar situation with our home Parish and we decided to leave…we have to drive 60 mins on Sunday and have to sacrifice the pleasure of being involved because the church is too far. We do not consider ourselves Traditional but rather just plain Catholic. What our first parish was doing was going against Catholicism, period. Everything you described is not truly Catholic, plain and simple.

Now we have young children to pass the faith on to, so that is the actual reason we left. Should you stay and fight? It is worth a try but if you are going home feeling disconnected and angry all the time then you may not be the person to fight this fight. Prayer is really the only way to figure this out. Take this to Jesus and see what He is inclining you to do. This is the only way to know. Ask Him, do you want me to fight, or bow out and help another parish with my gifts? They’re God’s gifts on loan to you…ask Him how He wants you to use them. In the meantime unite all your sufferings over this to Jesus on the cross. He knows how you feel…

 

[Paulette]

Sounds like my parish–lots of people with agendas including the pastor who managed a few months ago to weave into his sermon “woman” & “priest” in the same sentence in an approving way. Makes you want to scream and run out the door. Not to mention the singing which goes on and on and on and on… Sometimes I use earplugs. I go to daily Mass, and there are no TLMs anywhere near me, so I’m stuck. I am getting more adept at tuning a lot of the nonsense out and concentrating on prayer and worshipping God. Never thought I’d say that as I’m a recent returnee (long time protestant) and was a crazy person when I first jumped into parish life. I (and many of my friends) look at it as dry martyrdom. We are not shedding our blood as martyrs, but it’s killing us just the same. I offer it up and pray more. HOWEVER, I cannot take Sunday Masses and couple times a month I drive quite a distance to a group of Sisters who have a lovely chapel with thoroughly orthodox priests who celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (as opposed to “presiding”). At least I get a little bit of peace anyway. Paulette

 

[chotock]

Our priest is fairly orthodox, though he tends to get a little cozy with our neighbors at the ECUSA “cathedral”. My issues with him are about the financial boo-hoo’ing, and then going and spending $600 a week on a choir filled with non-catholics. Plus, he tends to be a bit self-centered. For instance, we have a strangly laid out nave, with a centrally located sanctuary, so wehn it comes time for communion, we have a large (too large IMHO) number of EMHC’s (another beef). Well, sometimes the Server has to act as an EMHC (I flat say no) so folks are told to count the # of EMHC’s to see if they might be needed. The celebrant also counts the EMHC’s so he knows who gets what (Hosts or Cup). Since the Server occasionally has to act as EMHC, they will count the server and then we do not have enough EMHC’s or the celebrant gets confused. So now, the server has to go around to the communion line and receive with the congregation.

I asked about Adoration, the responce I got was…“Get a list of people who might be interested and if I think there are enough, then we can see about it. But remember, I need time off for myself on occasion”. He leaves the office at 4 and only comes down if there is an emergency, or wedding rehearsal etc. And forget about ever getting an evening Confession during the week. Either come 30 minutes before the Saturday Vigil Masses or at 11:45 on tues or thurs.

Its these convenience issues that get to me. As if God cares about our convenience.

 

[Marie_Tucker]

Dear Chotok,
Unfortunately your scenario is much more prevalent that not.
I recently heard this from a Miles Christi Priest.
“it is a beautiful thing to be a Catholic, but it is even better to be a Catholic who doesn’t compromise his faith”.
You don’t have to explain to others why you are choosing another parish…you can simply say…that “this is where or what God is calling me to” and leave it at that. Praying for you and for all of us who ache for our Catholic faith and what is being done to it by those in “authority”. I cling to “and the gates of hell will not prevail”.
Marie

 

[JoeyWarren]

Time to leave your parish? Because things are not traditional?

That in itself is something Satan gloats over.

Tradition is relative.

You all that are whinning and crying, need to find out why we go to mass in the first place.

It’s not about whether communion is at the altar rail or not. Does God really care that much?

It’s not about whether to take communion on the tongue or on in the hand. Does God really care that much? You can be pretty sure that the tongue thing was not part of the early church.

It’s not about whether altar servers are boys or girls or both. Does God really care that much?

It’s not about whether it’s chant or hyms. Does God really care that much?

etc, etc, etc

Mass is about communioning with our Lord Jesus Christ, body, soul, and divinity. The things you are complaining about are extremely petty in nature. If I were like most of you, I would be extremely fearful when all is laid bare before God.

Take the communion of the early church, When Paul blessed the bread, did he gives pieces on to the tongue or did he just pass the bread around amongst those present. There was not one darn thing present that is currently present in your church. There were no altar servers. There was no altar. There was no brass or golden chalice. What was there?

Just a table that was used for every meal.
Just a loaf of bread.
Just a flask of wine.

If Saint Paul was present, he just blessed the bread, broke off a piece for himself and in turn passed on to the next person, exactly like Jesus did at the last supper. No chants, no hymns, no music, etc.

Latin Rite? Who needs it? Very few people understand latin. What does latin do for a mass that the english doesn’t?

This whole Traditional Catholicism forum is very unproductive.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Our priest is fairly orthodox, though he tends to get a little cozy with our neighbors at the ECUSA “cathedral”. My issues with him are about the financial boo-hoo’ing, and then going and spending $600 a week on a choir filled with non-catholics. Plus, he tends to be a bit self-centered. For instance, we have a strangly laid out nave, with a centrally located sanctuary, so wehn it comes time for communion, we have a large (too large IMHO) number of EMHC’s (another beef). Well, sometimes the Server has to act as an EMHC (I flat say no) so folks are told to count the # of EMHC’s to see if they might be needed. The celebrant also counts the EMHC’s so he knows who gets what (Hosts or Cup). Since the Server occasionally has to act as EMHC, they will count the server and then we do not have enough EMHC’s or the celebrant gets confused. So now, the server has to go around to the communion line and receive with the congregation.

I asked about Adoration, the responce I got was…“Get a list of people who might be interested and if I think there are enough, then we can see about it. But remember, I need time off for myself on occasion”. He leaves the office at 4 and only comes down if there is an emergency, or wedding rehearsal etc. And forget about ever getting an evening Confession during the week. Either come 30 minutes before the Saturday Vigil Masses or at 11:45 on tues or thurs.

Its these convenience issues that get to me. As if God cares about our convenience.

Do you want the great polyphony and chant music sung by a trained choir? Do you realize that it would be very hard to compose such a group of exclusively Catholics?

Some of the greatest musicians and composers of all time in Catholic Church have been non-Catholics working for the Church. Byrd comes to mind as only one example …

 

[Joab_Anias]

Although it is near I 94, it is far enough away that you cannot see it.

Ah, not it then. I saw and passed the exit for the Ave its on from I 75s and then looked up to the left and saw what looked like an old Gothic style Church (thought it was dark) and thought it must have been it.

Were thinking of doing some visiting this weekend and are torn between there and the Byz Cath.

 

[Silver_Thread]

Time to leave your parish? Because things are not traditional?

That in itself is something Satan gloats over.

Tradition is relative.

You all that are whinning and crying, need to find out why we go to mass in the first place.

It’s not about whether communion is at the altar rail or not. Does God really care that much?

It’s not about whether to take communion on the tongue or on in the hand. Does God really care that much? You can be pretty sure that the tongue thing was not part of the early church.

It’s not about whether altar servers are boys or girls or both. Does God really care that much?

It’s not about whether it’s chant or hyms. Does God really care that much?

etc, etc, etc

Mass is about communioning with our Lord Jesus Christ, body, soul, and divinity. The things you are complaining about are extremely petty in nature. If I were like most of you, I would be extremely fearful when all is laid bare before God.

Take the communion of the early church, When Paul blessed the bread, did he gives pieces on to the tongue or did he just pass the bread around amongst those present. There was not one darn thing present that is currently present in your church. There were no altar servers. There was no altar. There was no brass or golden chalice. What was there?

Just a table that was used for every meal.
Just a loaf of bread.
Just a flask of wine.

If Saint Paul was present, he just blessed the bread, broke off a piece for himself and in turn passed on to the next person, exactly like Jesus did at the last supper. No chants, no hymns, no music, etc.

Latin Rite? Who needs it? Very few people understand latin. What does latin do for a mass that the english doesn’t?

This whole Traditional Catholicism forum is very unproductive.

After Vatican II, Catholics, clerical and lay said the same thing, “Who needs it?” and left for any generic denomination that fit their “personal” needs. Please take the time to read the 'real" history of the Mass. I take umbrage with the vulgar discription you give of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I don’t think the early Christians would describe it that way. Q. What happens when you meet? A. Oh well, Paul says some kind of blessing over the bread and wine and then we eat and drink. That’s about it!..Hang in there, you get it some day. God Bless!:

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

History of the Mass?

Got any links?

When did the Paten come into play?

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

After Vatican II, Catholics, clerical and lay said the same thing, “Who needs it?” and left for any generic denomination that fit their “personal” needs. Please take the time to read the 'real" history of the Mass. I take umbrage with the vulgar discription you give of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I don’t think the early Christians would describe it that way. Q. What happens when you meet? A. Oh well, Paul says some kind of blessing over the bread and wine and then we eat and drink. That’s about it!..Hang in there, you get it some day. God Bless!:

So the Pope and Vatican were wrong and instituted something that would promote denominationalism?

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

After Vatican II, Catholics, clerical and lay said the same thing, “Who needs it?” and left for any generic denomination that fit their “personal” needs. Please take the time to read the **'real" history of the Mass. **I take umbrage with the vulgar discription you give of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I don’t think the early Christians would describe it that way. Q. What happens when you meet? A. Oh well, Paul says some kind of blessing over the bread and wine and then we eat and drink. That’s about it!..Hang in there, you get it some day. God Bless!:

Got a link? Interested in when the idea of a Paten came into play!

 

[BobP123]

Does God really care that much?

If He doesn’t, it’s still a matter of respect. If my kids call me Bob, I might be surprised but I wouldn’t care. But my kids show me and in fact, themselves too, respect by calling me “Dad” or “Father.” Everyone deserves respect and especially God, don’t you think?

 

[SemperFidelis]

So the Pope and Vatican were wrong and instituted something that would promote denominationalism?

Well the Popes are infallible, but they’re certaintly not impeccable. Read Sacrosanctum Concilium and you’ll see that the TLM is far closer to the Mass that Vatican II actually envisioned. The NO of today comes no where close.

 

[Joab_Anias]

Well the Popes are infallible, but they’re certaintly not impeccable. Read Sacrosanctum Concilium and you’ll see that the TLM is far closer to the Mass that Vatican II actually envisioned. The NO of today comes no where close.

Except for restoring the prayer of the faithful in Article 53, I don’t see where the Sacrosanctum Concilium mandates any change in the text or rubrics of the traditional Order of Mass.

While Sacrosanctum Concilium opened the way to liturgical reforms, it is silent about what kind of reformed liturgy the Council Fathers had in mind. In practice, however, Sacrosanctum Concilium ceded more control over the liturgy to the national hierarchies.

I think we musts trust the Fathers envisioned what we have as its result was the creation of the NO that they also practice in Rome. Perhaps what they didn’t envision was the desparity between liberals and conservatives that has resulted and the abuses of each. Personally it all puts me in fear of schism worse than the SSPX. Expecially in light of all the parish hopping I see going on evident in these threads.

Peace.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Except for restoring the prayer of the faithful in Article 53, I don’t see where the Sacrosanctum Concilium mandates any change in the text or rubrics of the traditional Order of Mass.

While Sacrosanctum Concilium opened the way to liturgical reforms, it is silent about what kind of reformed liturgy the Council Fathers had in mind. In practice, however, Sacrosanctum Concilium ceded more control over the liturgy to the national hierarchies.

I think we musts trust the Fathers envisioned what we have as its result was the creation of the NO that they also practice in Rome. Perhaps what they didn’t envision was the desparity between liberals and conservatives that has resulted and the abuses of each. Personally it all puts me in fear of schism worse than the SSPX. Expecially in light of all the parish hopping I see going on evident in these threads.

Peace.

Well considering this didn’t happen:

“The use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites”

or this:

“The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services”

and that this does happen on a regular basis:

“No other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority. . . . Finally, there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing”

One can easily see that the TLM is far closer to Sacrosanctum Concilium than the NO, and due to the irregularities in the offering of the NO, why one has to parish hop.

 

[Silver_Thread]

So the Pope and Vatican were wrong and instituted something that would promote denominationalism?

I don’t know their intentions, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[JoeyWarren]

After Vatican II, Catholics, clerical and lay said the same thing, “Who needs it?” and left for any generic denomination that fit their “personal” needs.

As Peter asked: The Pope and Vatican II made a grave error that would result in more denominationalism?

Please take the time to read the 'real" history of the Mass.

The real history of the Mass has been developed over time.

I take umbrage with the vulgar discription you give of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Then you take Umbrage with the Vulgarness of the New Testament.

I don’t think the early Christians would describe it that way.

Mere speculation.

 

[markadm]

Please take the time to read the 'real" history of the Mass.

Yeah, yeah. But it seems to me you fob off the TLM as mere “aesthetic”. It must be borne in mind, however, that the aesthetic is but an external expression of an internal reality. As such, many “untraditional” expression of the Mass are more than just a “bad show”.

You said that “tradition is relative” and back this up by the development of the Mass over time. I do not dispute this. However, I do believe you are making a gross error in not putting much stock in tradition. You said Satan gloats over these things, and ordinarily I would agree. However, there is a validity in the “build-up” of tradition over time. Why? Because it means something.

Tradition is not always the same. For example, you wouldn’t see the Orthodox clamouring for altar rails. But to be quite honest I think God might just care about whether we receive at an altar rail or not, or on the tongue or hand… not from His point of view, you must see, but rather from the standpoint of the question of does it mean something to that person or not? If we believe in the Eucharistic Presence then we may have certain sensibilities regarding kneeling or standing, receiving in the tongue, or in the hand. I am not saying that either is better than the other, but that there has to be some validity to them as expression of reverence. We do have a right, any a duty, to complain if they are expression of irreverence.

At any rate, the OP is complaining that the liturgy is celebrated like a fast food enterprise, with the Blessed Sacrament disrespected in the Tabernacle, and with a generally superficial attitude. It’s a fair complaint, isn’t it?

[For the record, I would classify certain “N.O.” Masses I’ve been to, with communion standing, and in the hand as very reverent. But I would classify many as not.]