Times are getting better morally?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JABA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
LeafByNiggle said:
Alright. Let’s confine ourselves to the 60’s. Can you discount the lynchings and widespread degradation imposed on blacks in the South in that era? Surely there is moral improvement there while there has been moral decline in other areas. I’m not saying that things are great now. I’m just saying that generalizing to say we are at an all-time low is unjustified.
Click to expand...
Can we discount the absolute Holocaust-denial level whitewash of all the atrocities of Reconstruction that motivated (though they did not justify) segregation?

You’re mostly right—people really do just rip off in different places, here or there—but our culture is an unusually virulent case, mostly because of a combination of Marxism and anti-communism. Ayn Rand would be an example: she decided that, since Marxism was evil (which it is), everything it said was bad must be good…and became some Pravda caricature of a heartless, selfish capitalist.

One doubts very much that a culture with our unique combination of psychotically individualistic selfishness and psychotic, slavish collectivism can survive for very long.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Alright. Let’s confine ourselves to the 60’s. Can you discount the lynchings and widespread degradation imposed on blacks in the South in that era? Surely there is moral improvement there while there has been moral decline in other areas. I’m not saying that things are great now. I’m just saying that generalizing to say we are at an all-time low is unjustified.
Click to expand...
It’s definitely justified. And recently a man tied a black man to his truck and dragged him to death.

Look at a TV Guide from 1962.

Look at the equivalent of a TV Guide today.

Look at the subject matter. Family Guy? You’ve got to be kidding me. South Park? Seriously, who allowed this garbage on TV? Grey’s Anatomy? Where a young female doctor in an era of AIDS picks up an anonymous guy at a bar, has sex with him, and even prevents him from telling her his name? Seen any Jennifer Aniston fornication/adultery movies lately?

Scandal - open scandal - is being marketed as entertainment? Why? And some TV shows are trying to outdo others as to what defines a dysfunctional family. Dexter? Hey, wasn’t that episode where he cuts the guy up with a chainsaw great? Too bad his wife ended up dead in the bathtub.

Brothers and Sisters??

I pick up the local free newspaper and I see page after page of grow your own dope products.

And in the background, all I hear is, “Hey. What’s the big deal?”

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
It’s definitely justified. And recently a man tied a black man to his truck and dragged him to death.

Look at a TV Guide from 1962.

Look at the equivalent of a TV Guide today.

Look at the subject matter. Family Guy? You’ve got to be kidding me. South Park? Seriously, who allowed this garbage on TV? Grey’s Anatomy? Where a young female doctor in an era of AIDS picks up an anonymous guy at a bar, has sex with him, and even prevents him from telling her his name? Seen any Jennifer Aniston fornication/adultery movies lately?

Scandal - open scandal - is being marketed as entertainment? Why? And some TV shows are trying to outdo others as to what defines a dysfunctional family. Dexter? Hey, wasn’t that episode where he cuts the guy up with a chainsaw great? Too bad his wife ended up dead in the bathtub.

Brothers and Sisters??

I pick up the local free newspaper and I see page after page of grow your own dope products.

And in the background, all I hear is, “Hey. What’s the big deal?”

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
All generations have had their moral problems. It’s almost as if your condemning the whole 21st century.
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
All generations have had their moral problems. It’s almost as if your condemning the whole 21st century.
Click to expand...
Everything is a matter of perception and degree. The degree of moral laxity was a lot lower in the 1950s and 1960s. The perverse was hidden. Dick Clark would not allow young men in leather jackets with greasy pompadores into the studio during American Bandstand.

The last 40 years has seen the steady rise of show a little skin, show a little more, show a little more. A little profanity, a little more, then a little more. Watch Red Skelton and then watch Louis Black. As preacher to the masses, Mr. Black tells his audience “There’s no such thing as bad language.” Mr. Skelton ended his show by saying “God bless.”

In the 1960s, we said “please” and “thank you.” We referred to our elders as Mister and Missus. We were told to avoid using dirty words or obscene gestures. If a neighbor threw out a stack of Playboys, the moms would get together and dispose of them. If I was at a house party and the adult men were getting a bit out of hand, one of the moms would go up to them and say, “Don’t you talk like that around the kids.” and they listened.

Here were the norms:

Self-restraint in speech and action.
Modesty in dress for young men and young ladies.
Politeness to all.
Avoiding the bad kids.
Avoiding bad habits like smoking.
Avoiding illegal drugs.
Developing good study habits and doing well in school.
Dating without sex and marriage, which included courtship.

Peace,
Ed
 
I thought the 60s was when the hippie free-love sexual revolution business all started.
 
Have you been watching Women of Grace recently? They’ve been discussing the pornified culture–even kids are looking at porn on the internet or on their cell phones. (And sometimes acting out what they’ve seen.)
 
Have you been watching Women of Grace recently? They’ve been discussing the pornified culture–even kids are looking at porn on the internet or on their cell phones. (And sometimes acting out what they’ve seen.)
Click to expand...
Not to mention the graphically violent video games, TV and movies. Even commercials sell sex, sex, sex.
If I was raising kids today, and thank God I am not, I would NEVER, EVER allow unrestricted access to all the technology.
Problem is the parents. Where are they? They’re more interested in being “buddies” or just ignoring the kids altogether than actually parenting them.
Case in point: I once made a negative comment to a friend about how restrictive my folks were. By the time I’d gotten home, they were both waiting in the kitchen for me armed with the exact conversation I’d had 1/2 hour before. My friend’s Dad heard us and called my Dad. :rolleyes: See what I’m getting at? Parents cared and parented and we got away with n-o-t-h-i-n-g!
 
Kids are a bit of a bother, aren’t they? Put some clothes on them, add food and send them to school. Later, plop them in front of the TV or get them a computer. Then just wait about 18 years and invite them to leave. God forbid.

Bill Cosby told the following story on TV: “When I was a boy, by the time I made it home from school, my mom knew all the bad things I had done along the way.”

My story: “When I was a boy, me and some friends got into a mudball fight and tosed them all over. A neighbor lady came by and asked me if my mother should be told about this little incident. I said, no. And cleaned up the mess.”

Effort is required in all relationships and sometimes, real sacrifice. Nothing worthwhile is easy, and it usually takes time.

Peace,
Ed
 
Excuse me, but isn’t it a characteristic of people to look back into the past and say, “Those were the good old years,” ?
We humans will only remember the good things that happened way in the past unless it was something deeply traumatic.

The thing that is convincing most everyone that the world is at an all-time low is probably due to the increase in communication. Now that most everyone (and everyone on this forum, for sure 🙂 ) has a computer, most likely a TV, probably a phone, etc. it is much easier for news to spread around.

Maybe everything that is happening now also happened in th 60s, 50s, and maybe even the 1800s. News wasn’t as easy to spread around back then as it is now. Just think about it. The world wasn’t perfect in the Renaissance, either.

Don’t lose hope in the world.
 
wworld said:
Excuse me, but isn’t it a characteristic of people to look back into the past and say, “Those were the good old years,” ?
We humans will only remember the good things that happened way in the past unless it was something deeply traumatic.

The thing that is convincing most everyone that the world is at an all-time low is probably due to the increase in communication. Now that most everyone (and everyone on this forum, for sure 🙂 ) has a computer, most likely a TV, probably a phone, etc. it is much easier for news to spread around.

Maybe everything that is happening now also happened in th 60s, 50s, and maybe even the 1800s. News wasn’t as easy to spread around back then as it is now. Just think about it. The world wasn’t perfect in the Renaissance, either.

Don’t lose hope in the world.
Click to expand...
No, it’s not characteristic. If anything, people hoped for new technology to help them. Ask anyone older, they’ll give you a list. Communications is not the issue. The issue is the Truth.

And if anyone here cares to know the truth, it is society became gradually more coarse and isolated since the 1970s. Perverts and sexual deviants who did not want to listen to anybody felt their time had come. NO - new sins were not invented, but they were more effectively marketed than ANY other time in history. You didn’t have Adult Bookstores or porn theaters until the 1970s. I just heard on the news that a local Adult Bookstore that had been open since the 1970s was closing down.

And cohabitation? Sure, it happened in the past but not until the Hippies began to market it did it gradually go mainstream. The same with porn. And now they want to legalize marijuana. It all started with the same time period.

Those are facts you can easily confirm. Once again - NEW SINS WERE NOT INVENTED - but they were marketed and defended by powerful lawyers to keep those religious nuts away. As far as marijuana, a Detroit forum member commented that it will likely become legal because those “religious types” don’t have the influence they once did.

Here, on this forum, a poster wrote about those religious types and their past influence - “Those days are over!”

Peace,
Ed
 
Mass communication is a double edged sword, like all technologies. On the one hand, it lets us spread God’s word to people who wouldn’t have gotten it any other way. It allowed other medical technologies to spread and save lives, it exposed injustices that would’ve been ignored, it gave voices to people who wouldn’t have had voices. Mass communication brought upon so many wonderful and beautiful things. On the other hand, it encourages sin. We see others sin, and subconsciously that tells us it’s OK because other people are doing it too.

This is similar in some way to medical technology. It has saved countless lives. However, branches of it have gone too far, and now we have abortion clinics.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Alright. Let’s confine ourselves to the 60’s. Can you discount the lynchings and widespread degradation imposed on blacks in the South in that era? Surely there is moral improvement there while there has been moral decline in other areas. I’m not saying that things are great now. I’m just saying that generalizing to say we are at an all-time low is unjustified.
Click to expand...
Yes. Lynchings were halted to a great degree.
HOWEVER, abortion as a way-of-life took off.
The numbers of babies killed is astornomical.

The One Child Policy is more than 30 yrs old in China.
That was not begun in the 1960s.
Forced abortion by government edict is also used there.
Of course, we know thatmorality is called “immoral,”
Things are that bad.

The one bright note?
It seems that people are becoming more involved in pro-life work.
I hope so - since I “have no hope in the world.”
I place my hope in the Lord Who made heaven and earth.

“Psalm 146:
3 I Put no trust in princes, in mere mortals powerless to save.
4 When they breathe their last, they return to the earth; that day all their planning comes to nothing.
5 Happy those whose help is Jacob’s God, whose hope is in the LORD, their God,
6 The maker of heaven and earth, the seas and all that is in them, Who keeps faith forever,
7 secures justice for the oppressed, gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets prisoners free;
8 the LORD gives sight to the blind. The LORD raises up those who are bowed down; the LORD loves the righteous.
9 The LORD protects the stranger, sustains the orphan and the widow, but thwarts the way of the wicked.
10 The LORD shall reign forever, your God, Zion, through all generations! Hallelujah!”
 
edwest2 said:
No, it’s not characteristic. If anything, people hoped for new technology to help them. Ask anyone older, they’ll give you a list. Communications is not the issue. The issue is the Truth.

And if anyone here cares to know the truth, it is society became gradually more coarse and isolated since the 1970s. Perverts and sexual deviants who did not want to listen to anybody felt their time had come. NO - new sins were not invented, but they were more effectively marketed than ANY other time in history. You didn’t have Adult Bookstores or porn theaters until the 1970s. I just heard on the news that a local Adult Bookstore that had been open since the 1970s was closing down.

And cohabitation? Sure, it happened in the past but not until the Hippies began to market it did it gradually go mainstream. The same with porn. And now they want to legalize marijuana. It all started with the same time period.

Those are facts you can easily confirm. Once again - NEW SINS WERE NOT INVENTED - but they were marketed and defended by powerful lawyers to keep those religious nuts away. As far as marijuana, a Detroit forum member commented that it will likely become legal because those “religious types” don’t have the influence they once did.

Here, on this forum, a poster wrote about those religious types and their past influence - “Those days are over!”

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
Couldn’t agree more, ed.
 
wworld said:
Don’t lose hope in the world.
Click to expand...
Repeating:

“Psalm 146:
3 I Put no trust in princes, in mere mortals powerless to save.
4 When they breathe their last, they return to the earth; that day all their planning comes to nothing.
5 Happy those whose help is Jacob’s God, whose hope is in the LORD, their God,
6 The maker of heaven and earth, the seas and all that is in them, Who keeps faith forever,
7 secures justice for the oppressed, gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets prisoners free;
8 the LORD gives sight to the blind. The LORD raises up those who are bowed down; the LORD loves the righteous.
9 The LORD protects the stranger, sustains the orphan and the widow, but thwarts the way of the wicked.
10 The LORD shall reign forever, your God, Zion, through all generations! Hallelujah!”
 
Equites_Christi said:
As a whole, the morals of youth are really non-existent. I will readily admit that. I only ask that you do not close your mind to exceptions.

My girlfriend and I, some very faraway day (we are far too young) plan on getting married, if it is in the Lord’s will. We both abhor divorce, even though it has happened in both our families - but not between our parents, thank goodness. We refuse to engage in pre-marital sexual activity, or drink, or do drugs, or use ABC if we do finally get married. And, very sadly, this sets us apart from virtually every single peer we know. It can be very discouraging trying to live virtuously when all the world - even friends - seems to have discarded any semblance of morals like an old rag.

So to address the OP, I would have to disagree and say that the times are on a moral decline: what the older women in your office are no longer doing, now every teenager and his brother are doing, and THEN some :eek:

EC
Click to expand...
I have only my own observations to go by, but it seems that children raised in a family where the parents stayed together in a healthy, committed union, are more likely to view marriage as desirable, rather than unneccessary.

You and your girlfriend have apparently discussed this and made the decision to remain virtuous, whether or not you eventually marry one another. This is a wise and mature decision, one that often isn’t recognized until later in life, and often after it’s too late.
I doubt there are many people who would regret having been virtuous in their youth.

I’m sorry you see this decline among your peers, but you recognize it, and that should give all of us hope that you are not alone. I see some evidence of other young people who are beginning to talk openly about chastity and question whether a rampant quest for sexual connection is what they really want. Keep honoring your values. God bless.
 
edwest2 said:
Instead of speculating, it would be helpful to include actual studies that define what did and did not happen. In the 1960s, being raised a Catholic, you did not have sex while dating. Period. This out of respect for God’s law and the dignity of the other person. It mattered that a young lady was not known as a sleep around. This was looked down upon for good reason.

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
If this were true, there would have been no need for homes for unwed mothers, no shotgun weddings, or in Ireland for example, the Magdalene Laundries.

My brother and I were both born in the late 60’s to unwed Catholic mothers who put us up for adoption.

While I agree that the “ideal” of that times was as you described it, I think that your statement is naive.
 
I personally think that society is like a pendullum. It swings back and forth…more moral; less moral; more moral; less moral.

In some ways, we are now more moral than before.

Hate crimes, racism, etc are more heavily condemned - more moral.
Slavery is a crime - more moral
Rape is a crime and victims are taken more seriously - more moral
Domestic abuse is a crime - more moral
Women have more rights - more moral
Corporations cannot exploit workers (updated labor laws) - more moral
Women have more rights when it comes to their children - more moral
Women have equal access to the workforce - more moral
Minorities have rights and connot be exploited - more moral
Homosexuals cannot be beaten up for being who they are - more moral
Abused children have access to help phone agencies - more moral
Child victims of molestation are taken more seriously - more moral

Sex and porn is very available - less moral
Sex is practiced at a younger age - less moral
Easier access to drugs - less moral
Divorce very easy to obtain - less moral
Cohabitation seen as normal - less moral
Night clubs and bars everywhere - less moral
Broken family unit due to divorce - less moral
Kids growing up without a father after divorce - less moral
ABC - less moral
Abortion pill and abortion - less moral
 
StJudePray4Me said:
If this were true, there would have been no need for homes for unwed mothers, no shotgun weddings, or in Ireland for example, the Magdalene Laundries.

My brother and I were both born in the late 60’s to unwed Catholic mothers who put us up for adoption.

While I agree that the “ideal” of that times was as you described it, I think that your statement is naive.
Click to expand...
I knew about the local home for wayward girls. We had crime and all the rest. But the great weight of effort in our community was to live out our faith daily. And the vast majority actually tried. As a boy, I didn’t understand certain things but I saw good example from most of the adults in my community. The few who were bad apples spent their days peeking through the curtains or window shades to see if any kids were on their grass.

Shotgun weddings. Well, I think the girl’s father had every right to expect that her boyfriend act responsibly toward her. That if the young man claimed he loved her then he should make this claim official.

I’m not writing a claim about some perfect time, but I lived in a community and a city where people actually tried to restrain themselves, to care for themselves and to care for their neighbors. The primary difference between then and now? People were gradually encouraged to be selfish, to look out for number one and to abandon self restraint because sinning was marketed as much more enjoyable and/or easy.

Peace,
Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top