Tired of the same old Protesant line

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No disrespect to non-Catholics, but I love my Catholic faith and can’t wait to get to church tomorrow. I love our choir with the organ, I really feel deeply touched when they play our songs of praise. My favorite are “I will raise you up”, “Here I am Lord” ( I always cry with this one). “Jesus, Jesus”. I also love the two Protestant songs, one being “Just a closer walk with me”. I know Patsy Cline has that on my old Patsy Cline tape. It goes:

I am weak, but thou art strong,
Jesus keep me from all wrong.
etc…

I also love the other Protestant song “The Lord is my shepherd”. Although it is not really a song, I love it. I also love “Amazing Grace”, it is so true that “once I was lost but now am found, once was blind but now I see”.

But my all time favorite is “Ave Maria”. Cannot beat that one…:love:
 
Below is a quote from Martin Luther himself i’m sure you’ll find it familiar. After that is some more quotes of his showing how evil his intetions really were. The last quote is one that I believe helped Hitler gain a foothold in Germany and persecute the Jews.

**“If men believe in Christ and accept Him as their personal Savior, His justice will be imputed to them and they will go straight to Heaven. It does not matter what evil they have done during their lives. It does not matter whether they are, or not, repentful of their sins. It does not matter at the moment of their death whether they have contrition or not, or if they are in the state of grace. If they have accepted Christ as their personal Savior they will be saved.” **

“I do not wish to see or hear anything of Moses. If we allow the 10 commandments any influence on our conscience they become the cloak of evil, heretics, and blasphemers. If Moses should intimidate you with his 10 commandments, tell him right off to chase himself to the Jews. Moses should forever be looked about with suspicion, even as a heretic, damned, even worse than the Pope and the devil.”

He changed Scriptures so that wherever it said to “do penance”, he wrote, “to do better”. In Acts 19:18 where it says, “Many of them came confessing their sins”, he wrote, “They came acknowledging the miracles of the Apostles”. In the Annunciation where it said, “Full of Grace”, he changed it to “Thou gracious one”. In Romans where it said, “We account a man to be justified by faith”, he wrote, “We hold man justified by faith alone without the works of the law.”

When questioned about his addition of the word “alone” he stated,

“If your Pope annoys you with the word, tell him that I will have it that way. Popes and asses are one and the same thing. To the devil with anyone who censures my translation without my will or knowledge. I will have it that way. I am the doctor of all the doctors of popidom. These Popish asses are not able to appreciate my labors.”

Regarding the Jews, he wrote,

“Burn their Synagogues and schools. Put them on fire, their homes, their prayer books and their rabbis.”
 
Safe,

Luther never wrote the part you bolded there.

The other quotes he may or may not have made. They are from the TableTalk which are oft copied notes taken by auditors of things he said in the classroom and at his home.

The passages from the Diatribe on the Jews no one supports him for and they have nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Your adduction of them speaks more of your own lack of charity than of anything else.

Again, no opportunity is missed to flay the dead.

Scholars do not credit the TableTalk because they are hearsay and are subject to the recollection of the redactor as well as to his polemical interests. And again, they have very little to do with what we’re talking about here.

It looks like you got all those quotes from this website. No citation is given for any of them. We are left to trust the author who calls Luther a beast and says the Mexican government is Masonic.

You’ll excuse me if I prefer cited quotations offered by scholars without such odd biases.
 
Wow. I am the opposite I guess on confession. I feel so renewed after confession! I have been aiming for weekly even though its been more like every 2 weeks on average…

Its interesting to me how as Catholics we all get a different feeling from it, but its not about feelings we are comfortable with is it?

I was soooo nervous to go to confession that very first time… I almost passed out right there as I tried to speak…

But I pictured Jesus on the other side of me and I was fine! I sailed through it feeling like I was with him!!😃

I wish that i could give it a better expalination, but I just cant. Its not the same for everyone.

I am so happy about that sacrament, and grateful for it.
👍 My feelings exactly!! I love Confession and I LOVE The Catholic Church! 😃
 
I personally am tired of the same old usage “Protestant” to mean everything from born again fundamentalists to urbane unbelieving Episcopalians. That usage is not helpful in apologetics discussions on these forums. of far more help would be to cite, with source and link if possible, a statement or writing by a certain writer, clergyman, or adherent of a body, state who is making the statement, what is their confession or denomination, make the precise citation, and begin the discussion. Catholics resent an apologetics argument that begins “I heard someplace that Catholics believe, practice . . . .” without source or attribution. I imagine adherents of various non-Catholic bodies resent the same thing that begins “I heard a Protestant say that . . . .” and start an argument.
Great post, & good point!! Thank you!!
Hi, ALL
Mother thereasa had a personal relationship with Jesus that I think most would agree completed Jesus’s command; love one another even as I have loved you. She saw him in everyone wow! Can we do this? We all say we believe, but do are actions show this? The Rosary, Mass and Euchrist, you can’t get more personal then this and this certainly was her priority when it came to a personal relationship.She certainly was a graced person. She kept her eyes on Christ’s suffering in the poor don’t ya think? My 2 cents worth.

PEACE
ONENOW1
👍
 
I think for the most part, Catholics and non-Catholics are in agreement.

Catholics believe that there is more to salvation than accepting Christ as your personal savior. Even the OSAS crowd believe that IF one is saved, one will not go out and sin.

And recently Pope Benedict said that being baptized and going to Mass is not enough (Can’t find the specific quote, heard it at a Catholic Youth Conference). In the conference they also talked about how we can do the right things for the wrong reasons. We need to go to Mass, but we need to go for the right reasons.

I think sometimes sharp lines get drawn that do not accurately reflect the beliefs of Catholics and Non-Catholics but rather caricatures of them.

Most non-Catholics, even OSAS do not believe that an altar call and nothing else will get one to heaven. A “personal reltationship” will include the desire to do things for His glory.

Conversely, Catholics do not believe that just doing the right actions, without having the right reasons, will get one to heaven either. One can go to Mass and recieve Him every week. But if one is not doing it for the right reasons, they can be recieving unworthily and will not find their way to heaven. One will Do things if one is going to heaven but one must Do those things for the right reasons.

I found this. It is not the above quote, but I think it accurately reflects a similar view.
A translation of the homily Benedict XVI delivered without notes on Jan. 8, 2006, feast of the Baptism of the Lord, the day he baptized 10 infants in the Sistine Chapel.
Now, after the blessing of the water, a second dialogue of great importance will follow. This is its content: Baptism, as we have seen, is a gift; the gift of life. But a gift must be accepted, it must be lived.

We do believe that in baptism one is born again. We also believe that Baptism, as compared in Scripture to circmcision is not to be denied to infants. But while Christian parents,just as Jewish Parents, can bring their children into the covenant with God, and make the promises for thier child, there comes a time when the child takes on the responsibility for oneself.

I have to go now, I hope this was not too much of a ramble.

God Bless,
Maria
 
I think for the most part, Catholics and non-Catholics are in agreement.

Catholics believe that there is more to salvation than accepting Christ as your personal savior. Even the OSAS crowd believe that IF one is saved, one will not go out and sin.

And recently Pope Benedict said that being baptized and going to Mass is not enough (Can’t find the specific quote, heard it at a Catholic Youth Conference). In the conference they also talked about how we can do the right things for the wrong reasons. We need to go to Mass, but we need to go for the right reasons.

I think sometimes sharp lines get drawn that do not accurately reflect the beliefs of Catholics and Non-Catholics but rather caricatures of them.

Most non-Catholics, even OSAS do not believe that an altar call and nothing else will get one to heaven. A “personal reltationship” will include the desire to do things for His glory.

Conversely, Catholics do not believe that just doing the right actions, without having the right reasons, will get one to heaven either. One can go to Mass and recieve Him every week. But if one is not doing it for the right reasons, they can be recieving unworthily and will not find their way to heaven. One will Do things if one is going to heaven but one must Do those things for the right reasons.

I found this. It is not the above quote, but I think it accurately reflects a similar view.

We do believe that in baptism one is born again. We also believe that Baptism, as compared in Scripture to circmcision is not to be denied to infants. But while Christian parents,just as Jewish Parents, can bring their children into the covenant with God, and make the promises for thier child, there comes a time when the child takes on the responsibility for oneself.

I have to go now, I hope this was not too much of a ramble.

God Bless,
Maria
No Maria, not rambling at all but a wonderful post. Thank you. 🙂
 
Every time I try and talk to a Protestant person on just about anything, it’s the same old line “Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour”? And they add, because if you do, then you will be saved. I personally know that that is too easy and although I of course do accept Him, I don’t feel I have to keep repeating that same old phrase. And what do you tell Protestants about us being Baptised, therefore that is where our Born Again comes in. they don’t believe this. One more question is they don’t believe Mary was a virgin…how does one explain any of this? Thak you. 🙂
##** I suppose Jesus Christ is** a crashing bore :rolleyes:, now you mention it

Just be grateful they don’t say, “You are a satan-worshipping idolater, who is going to hell” - or “God hates you, baby” - or “Are you in that paedophile Church ?” - or "Why do you worship the Pope ? " - or “Why are Romanists so immoral ?” - or "Why do Papists practice cannibalism ?"

I’d say you are getting off very lightly, if all you have to complain of is some one sufficiently concerned for you to be bothered about your salvation 🙂 ##
 
**
“Lord and savior”, yes. “Personal”, I still can’t figure it out.
**
**I have never met Jesus. If I meet him in this life, I will have a heart attack and die on the spot. **

**There was much more to him than was written. **

**My dad I personally knew. There was much more to him than was ever written. **

Personal is for bankers and pan pizzas. Any attempt to personalize Jesus is an insulting attempt to bring him to your own deficient level of understanding of him.

That’s my two cents, anyway.
**## It’s personal in the sense exemplified here: **

Gal 2:20** I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.**

**If you would prefer those of us who don’t think much of an abstract or cerebral or impersonal form of Christian life, to speak instead of “experiential religion” - let’s by all means use the term “experiential religion”. If “heart religion” is preferable - let’s use that. For that is all that the term “personal religion” points to - a religion in which Jesus Christ is not some rotting stiff dead & gone almost 2000 years ago, but a living Presence, made present to the Christian believer purely by God’s grace & mercy, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is through the Spirit of Christ - & through nothing less - that it is possible for us, now, sinful & frail & limited & needy & blind & naked & poor & wretched as we are, to have a living relationship with the Lord & Saviour & God of whom we are (& always will be) in such boundless need. **

**How can anyone now living claim to have this ? By grace, & grace alone (though doubtless someone will try to distort this into a form of presumption 😦 - though how it can be presumption to receive what God gives to any Christian for His Son’s honour & glory, & because of the great neediness of His People for those gifts, beats me; as well might one call it presumption to say one has received the grace of absolution). **

**Cutting Christ down to our own size (which is what you seem to be concerned about) is wrong, as you say; & it’s not involved - or no more so than in any form of Christianity which involves communion between the limited believer & the illimitable Saviour. It’s a risk - but not one found in Evangelical types of Christian experience alone. **

ILTM as though you see “personal” as = “private”. That’s not what is meant: “personal religion” in this context = living; not abstract; not purely cerebral. And to have it, is God’s gift - not in any way an implication that one is of superior virtue, or junk like that. Is that what you had in mind ?

**And see post 49 🙂 **

**I hope that clears things up, or helps to **

I think this is a dispute about a word, & nothing more ##
 
##** I suppose Jesus Christ is** a crashing bore :rolleyes:, now you mention it

Just be grateful they don’t say, “You are a satan-worshipping idolater, who is going to hell” - or “God hates you, baby” - or “Are you in that paedophile Church ?” - or "Why do you worship the Pope ? " - or “Why are Romanists so immoral ?” - or "Why do Papists practice cannibalism ?"

I’d say you are getting off very lightly, if all you have to complain of is some one sufficiently concerned for you to be bothered about your salvation 🙂 ##
Oh, but I have also been asked why do you worship the pope and the worst one was the guy said to me that a bishop said in a newspaper that the pope WAS Christ on earth. I told him to his face that he was lying, that no bishop would claim that, but instead may say the pope is the "vicar " of Christ here on earth. And yes they bring up the pedophile thing and I just shoot back, it has nothing to do with the faith…I think I’m having a nervous breakdown.:whacky:
 
Oh, but I have also been asked why do you worship the pope and the worst one was the guy said to me that a bishop said in a newspaper that the pope WAS Christ on earth. I told him to his face that he was lying, that no bishop would claim that, but instead may say the pope is the "vicar " of Christ here on earth. And yes they bring up the pedophile thing and I just shoot back, it has nothing to do with the faith…I think I’m having a nervous breakdown.:whacky:
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Sorry to tell you that. But , its true.
 
Damascus;1690601:
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Sorry to tell you that. But , its true.[/QUOT

Damascus, reread my post again because I did tell him the pope was the “vicar of Christ.”🙂
SO SOrry!

Sassy gal, I guess I misunderstood your latest post …

Gotcha!👍

Mary and all the saints be with you tonight!🙂
[/quote]
 
Every time I try and talk to a Protestant person on just about anything, it’s the same old line “Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour”? And they add, because if you do, then you will be saved. I personally know that that is too easy and although I of course do accept Him, I don’t feel I have to keep repeating that same old phrase. And what do you tell Protestants about us being Baptised, therefore that is where our Born Again comes in. they don’t believe this. One more question is they don’t believe Mary was a virgin…how does one explain any of this? Thak you. 🙂
From Catholic Answers: catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0203sbs.asp

Here is something else from CA:

FUNDAMENTALISTS ask, “Have you been saved?”–a question which conceives of salvation as a past event. While Scripture does sometimes speak of salvation as a past event (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5, 8, 2 Tim. 1:9, Titus 3:5), or as a present process (Phil. 2:12, 1 Pet. 1:9), it most often speaks of it as a future event:

" [A]nd you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 10:22).

“For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it” (Mark 8:3-5).

“But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will” (Acts 15:11).

“Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life” (Rom. 5:9-10).

“Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed” (Rom. 13:11).

“If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

“[Y]ou are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus” (1 Cor. 5:5).

Here is another from CA:

It isn’t enough just to “accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior.” If you want to be saved, you also have to work at it. You’ll be judged not just on what you believe, but on what you do.

“You are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the last judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness” (Rom. 2:5-8).

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil” (2 Cor. 5:10).

“Their end will correspond to their deeds” (2 Cor. 11:15).

“Whatever you do, do from the heart, as for the Lord and not for others, knowing that you will receive from the Lord the due payment of the inheritance; be slaves of the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will receive recompense for the wrong he committed, and there is no partiality” (Col. 3:24-25).

“Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning” (1 Pet. 1:17).

“Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds” (Rev. 20:12-13).

You can also read this, too: catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9204fea2.asp
 
Thank you Jim 👍
Here is what I was looking for. This is from CA: catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”
 
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