Tired

[Awake]

I used to be very involved in my church and would go to mass every day. I would try to pray as much as possible, which usually was 30 minutes to an hour a day.

Then I started struggling with atheism. The more I started to think about things from an atheists perspective, it all started making sense. It got worse and worse to the point where I had trouble sleeping at night.

I tried talking to several priests and they all sincerely tried to help. They explained to me how Catholicism made perfect sense from their vantage point. But the questions that I had, they couldn’t really answer. I’m not really around anybody else I can talk to about issues like atheism. I guess it bothers me that there seems to be nobody out there I can sit down and have a serious conversation about religion.

I’ve been religious, but I’ve never really had a religious experience or felt the Holy Spirit. When people talk about all their great religious experiences they’ve had, I’m glad they’ve had them, but it’s meaningless to me. It doesn’t make me want to believe any more, but just makes me wonder why I haven’t had a similar experience.

It was a while ago that I started struggling with atheism. Now, I’m just tired. I’m tired of continuing to struggle with this all the time, I’m tired of worrying about the fate of my soul, and I’m tired of trying. I go to church halfheartedly. I only make it to daily mass maybe once a week. I go more out of a fear of going to hell than a desire to please God.

And I very rarely pray. When I try to pray, I just can’t concentrate on anything and feel like I’m wasting my time. I’m not motivated to pray at all because it feels no different than sitting in front of a wall and staring at it for an hour.

I guess I’m posting this to get some practical advice. I’m just frustrated with everything and feel like there’s nobody I can really talk to. I’m hoping somebody has some advice other than “just pray about it” or “offer your struggling up to God”. That’s the only advice I’ve ever been given in life and it’s gotten me nowhere. If I were to use my spirituality and prayer life as a basis of my faith, then I would certainly become an atheist. I’m tired of failing no matter how hard I try.

 

[strngrnrth]

I spent a lot of my life as an atheist, and I can vouch that it doesn’t make sense. The logical image of atheism is a facade.
Hang out on the apologetics thread. Hang in there. I have experienced so many miracles that there is no possible way to explain even a hundredth of them without believing in either a conscious, loving God or some sort of lifesaving, truth-revealing, prayer-answering impersonal force that does an excellent job of imitating a conscious loving God. The former makes much more sense than the latter. The latter needs an explanation of its own and has none that I can see.

 

[Awake]

I spent a lot of my life as an atheist, and I can vouch that it doesn’t make sense. The logical image of atheism is a facade.
Hang out on the apologetics thread. Hang in there. I have experienced so many miracles that there is no possible way to explain even a hundredth of them without believing in either a conscious, loving God or some sort of lifesaving, truth-revealing, prayer-answering impersonal force that does an excellent job of imitating a conscious loving God. The former makes much more sense than the latter. The latter needs an explanation of its own and has none that I can see.

I used to be an apologist myself. I know all the arguments and counterarguments.

I’m glad that it makes sense to you and I’ve glad that you’ve seen so many miracles, but it doesn’t make sense to me and I haven’t seen any miracles. I have a hard time basing my entire faith on second hand accounts.

 

[jmeyer3131]

I can’t even begin to tell you how much my heart goes out to you.

How long have you struggled? For me, it was 10 years.

I had considered myself to have a very strong faith, but sometimes life intervenes, and things happened 10 years ago that made me strongly doubt the existence of God.

I never had a religious experience either until Lent of this year.

I still have some doubts, but I’ve come a long way.

During those ten years, I continued to ask others for prayers. I prayed also, but I know what you mean about prayer. When you truly doubt, you begin to feel as though prayer is just talking to yourself.

I continued to read, to talk to others, to see what made sense and what didn’t, so I’d have an intellectual basis for belief. I thought it was all I needed, that I didn’t need an emotional basis, but I was wrong about that, too.

I needed both. After a decade, God granted me reason to believe through an experience I had during Mass.

But it was a long decade, and if I had not continued to fight against my doubts, who knows what would’ve happened?

Look to the people who help your faith and keep hanging around them. Critical for me was finding a priest who is not only very intelligent and able to make good sense of the Bible, but who takes such great joy in the Mass that he just glows.

I don’t belong to his parish and he doesn’t know me, yet I leaned on his faith and knowledge when I didn’t have my own to lean on. It kept me from giving up. (And to this day he has no clue how important his faith has been to me.)

I used to ask others about their experiences, looking for some positive proof, so I know what you mean about that, too.

I don’t know what will help you. I know that Lent was exceptional for me, and though all my doubts aren’t gone, I’m very happy I didn’t give up and fairly confident that one day my doubts will, in fact, be gone.

One thing to remember: if you continue to doubt but keep trying to find God, and there really is a God, in the end all your struggles will be worth it.

I understand being tired, but keep up the search.

My prayers are with you in a big way.

 

[thomasf]

Fact is, most people DON’T have a religious or miraculous experience. Most people never get divine intervention, or have visions, or hear God’s voice, or see angels, or get consolation, or have anything happen to them that proves beyond a doubt that God is real and following Him is the way to go. Despite what you might hear or think about this, most people won’t have these things happen to them.

Most people do have to go on second hand accounts without proof and without a revelation. That’s what faith is all about. Believing without the proof.

I heard a interview on the radio, I think on the “Journey Home” about a jewish man that converted to catholicism. He saw a vision of Jesus while in adoration. I always thought wouldn’t it be great to have that? I could tell everyone that He’s real and that I saw them. And then I would have great faith.

Then one day I was doing adoration thinking “Come on Jesus, now’s the time to reveal yourself to me and give me that proof.” And it came to me. It ain’t going to happen. Especially if you’re looking for that. If you want great faith, you have to come to it without that absolute proof, through God’s grace.

I know you’re tired of praying, but that’s exactly what you need. Less of the evidence and reasons for faith, and less reliance on proof and logic. We have faith because God gives us the grace to believe. And that is a gift He gives to all of us freely. But we must choose to open up and accept it.

You can learn the reasons and proofs and logic of the faith all you want. If you don’t open your heart and accept His grace, it will be all for naught. You need to break down and really open yourself to His grace. Pray, preferably in adoration. Read the gospels. Open yourself to the graces in mass and the sacraments. Really open yourself. Empty yourself and allow Him to come in. Jesus emptied Himself to become human, you must empty yourself to allow Him in.

God bless.

 

[jmeyer3131]

While it makes sense to open yourself to God’s grace, when I was in Awake’s situation, my first question to you would’ve been how do I do that?

Like Awake, I continued to go to church. I prayed the best I could. I went to confesssion. I asked everyone I knew to pray for me.

I questioned why God would give some people such great experiences and leave some of us with so much doubt. To some degree, their stories helped. It was one reason I didn’t give up. It wasn’t enough for me to stop having serious doubts, though I wanted it to be.

People would tell me to just accept and believe, and I tried, but I couldn’t just believe any more than I can just believe anything else. There had to be a grounding to my belief.

Awake, I do have one question. You mention only going to daily Mass out of fear of going to hell. I’m wondering, when you were more involved in Mass and prayer, was this because you had a strong faith or because you were fearful that if you didn’t do everything a certain way, you’d go to hell? Though God asks certain things of us, remember that His greatest command is about love.

I learned a lot in the midst of my doubts. In my case, I wasn’t afraid of hell. I realized that if there is a God, He could see my struggles. I was more afraid that there was just nothing at the end of this life, and that scared me. But God will use what He will use, and that fear compelled me not to give up.

I learned another thing. Doubts like this can be a gift. When I was younger and thought my faith was strong, I thought I understood the wonder of a God who would love us and give us so much.

Coming back to faith after a decade of doubts, though, makes the wonder of it all that much greater. I can’t begin to explain to people who haven’t been there. In fact, I don’t envy people who don’t go through this struggle, though I used to.

I don’t know where you’ll find your way back to God. My brother also went through years when he called himself agnostic. (Interestingly, he resolved his doubts about the same time mine started.) What resolved his doubts would not have resolved mine.

I can guarantee, though, that giving up is not the answer. In the end, the struggle is well worth it.

 

[cheeto1]

I’m tired of failing no matter how hard I try.

May I ask, what are you striving for and failing at? Some things
are in God’s hands only. Like planting a seed. You can plant it,
water it, put it in the sun, but only God can decide if it will grow.
Or take having a baby, you can try all you want, but only God
can decide if He will create a new soul. Or take being happy,
you can try all the things you know, but it seems like we have
more power to make others happy than we do to make ourselves
happy.

Also, do you get enough sleep. I have experienced that a lack
of sleep will rob the joy of my prayer time, while enough sleep
will restore it. This feeling of joy seems like the thing that makes
me feel closer to God.

Know this: even though I have never met you, if I have seen
you in morning mass, you have strengthened my faith, and
for that, I am grateful.

You may join a group called “Cursillo” if what you are yearning
for is others to share your faith-walk with. DECOLORES

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Awake,

      the only place you can receive faith is from the source of faith itself, Jesus Christ. Go to Him and ask, that he give you faith.

Many people follow religion until the point it wears off and becomes meaningless. They only way for religion to make any sense is to have faith, and only God can give you the gift of faith.

No religion, no person, no amount of human rationality, can give you faith. It all must come from God.

You however, must be open to faith.

Also, ignore everyone else’s experience in faith. God comes to us individually, and reveals himself, according to your need. How God revealed Himself to me, may not be appropriate for you and how He reveals Himself to you, will not be appropriate for anyone else. The key is, open your heart to Him, he will come to you, however that may happen.

God Bless
Jim

 

[InLight247]

…………… I’ve been religious, ………………………

And I very rarely pray. When I try to pray, I just can’t concentrate on anything and feel like I’m wasting my time. I’m not motivated to pray at all because it feels no different than sitting in front of a wall and staring at it for an hour.

………………… I’m tired of failing no matter how hard I try.

Many people are religious but have no relationship with Jesus.
The question is do you want religion or relation?

Religion can worn you out, relation will bring you into God’s love.
Religion may not make sense, relationship with Jesus always brings comfort and meaning.

Have you asked Jesus to come into your heart?
Have you asked him to show Himself to you?
Have you tell Him all your struggles like you told here online, and ask for his help?

If not, please do so, give it a try.
And do not give up easily, be persistent in asking His help.
He **will **help you.

God bless!

 

[Awake]

Fact is, most people DON’T have a religious or miraculous experience. Most people never get divine intervention, or have visions, or hear God’s voice, or see angels, or get consolation, or have anything happen to them that proves beyond a doubt that God is real and following Him is the way to go. Despite what you might hear or think about this, most people won’t have these things happen to them.

Most people do have to go on second hand accounts without proof and without a revelation. That’s what faith is all about. Believing without the proof.

I heard a interview on the radio, I think on the “Journey Home” about a jewish man that converted to catholicism. He saw a vision of Jesus while in adoration. I always thought wouldn’t it be great to have that? I could tell everyone that He’s real and that I saw them. And then I would have great faith.

Then one day I was doing adoration thinking “Come on Jesus, now’s the time to reveal yourself to me and give me that proof.” And it came to me. It ain’t going to happen. Especially if you’re looking for that. If you want great faith, you have to come to it without that absolute proof, through God’s grace.

I know you’re tired of praying, but that’s exactly what you need. Less of the evidence and reasons for faith, and less reliance on proof and logic. We have faith because God gives us the grace to believe. And that is a gift He gives to all of us freely. But we must choose to open up and accept it.

You can learn the reasons and proofs and logic of the faith all you want. If you don’t open your heart and accept His grace, it will be all for naught. You need to break down and really open yourself to His grace. Pray, preferably in adoration. Read the gospels. Open yourself to the graces in mass and the sacraments. Really open yourself. Empty yourself and allow Him to come in. Jesus emptied Himself to become human, you must empty yourself to allow Him in.

God bless.

I’m sorry, but I can’t accept something just because somebody says it’s true. I know you’re not intending to say this, but this is what it sounds like you’re saying: “You need to believe in X even though you haven’t seen it, heard it, or felt it, and it doesn’t make sense to you. You need to believe because somebody else believes it’s true.”

I’ve asked for faith many times, but I don’t seem to get it. I know you probably think I’m holding back something because I secretly want to be an atheist. In fact, it’s the opposite. I want to be Catholic. I really don’t want to become an atheist. I think the only thing that’s holding me back from being an atheist is my desire to be Catholic and my fear of being wrong.

 

[Awake]

While it makes sense to open yourself to God’s grace, when I was in Awake’s situation, my first question to you would’ve been how do I do that?

Like Awake, I continued to go to church. I prayed the best I could. I went to confesssion. I asked everyone I knew to pray for me.

I questioned why God would give some people such great experiences and leave some of us with so much doubt. To some degree, their stories helped. It was one reason I didn’t give up. It wasn’t enough for me to stop having serious doubts, though I wanted it to be.

People would tell me to just accept and believe, and I tried, but I couldn’t just believe any more than I can just believe anything else. There had to be a grounding to my belief.

Yeah, this is how I feel: I need some grounding. I can’t just believe because I want to.

Awake, I do have one question. You mention only going to daily Mass out of fear of going to hell. I’m wondering, when you were more involved in Mass and prayer, was this because you had a strong faith or because you were fearful that if you didn’t do everything a certain way, you’d go to hell? Though God asks certain things of us, remember that His greatest command is about love.

No, I never really had a strong faith. I grew up Catholic but not in an overly religious family. (We went to mass on Sunday, but that was about it; we didn’t pray or do anything else.) When I left and started on my own, I slowly became more active in the church. It wasn’t because my faith was strong, but because I thought it would make me a better person (which it probably did).

I never really thought about the existence of God because I grew up always being told that Catholicism is the right religion. I figured that if Catholicism is true, then I should probably start praying and going to mass and confession more often so that I would have a better chance at making it into heaven. It wasn’t until a while later when I started to question if Catholicism actually is true.

I learned a lot in the midst of my doubts. In my case, I wasn’t afraid of hell. I realized that if there is a God, He could see my struggles. I was more afraid that there was just nothing at the end of this life, and that scared me. But God will use what He will use, and that fear compelled me not to give up.

I learned another thing. Doubts like this can be a gift. When I was younger and thought my faith was strong, I thought I understood the wonder of a God who would love us and give us so much.

Coming back to faith after a decade of doubts, though, makes the wonder of it all that much greater. I can’t begin to explain to people who haven’t been there. In fact, I don’t envy people who don’t go through this struggle, though I used to.

I don’t know where you’ll find your way back to God. My brother also went through years when he called himself agnostic. (Interestingly, he resolved his doubts about the same time mine started.) What resolved his doubts would not have resolved mine.

I can guarantee, though, that giving up is not the answer. In the end, the struggle is well worth it.

I’m always afraid of hell. Eternal pain and suffering is not something to be taken lightly. Anything eternal, for that matter, I find frightening. I find the thought of an eternal heaven frightening too. The thought that a forever exists is something that keeps me awake at night.

Thank you for your insights. I hope that my doubts will some day down the road help to give me faith like yours have.

 

[Awake]

May I ask, what are you striving for and failing at? Some things
are in God’s hands only. Like planting a seed. You can plant it,
water it, put it in the sun, but only God can decide if it will grow.
Or take having a baby, you can try all you want, but only God
can decide if He will create a new soul. Or take being happy,
you can try all the things you know, but it seems like we have
more power to make others happy than we do to make ourselves
happy.

Also, do you get enough sleep. I have experienced that a lack
of sleep will rob the joy of my prayer time, while enough sleep
will restore it. This feeling of joy seems like the thing that makes
me feel closer to God.

Know this: even though I have never met you, if I have seen
you in morning mass, you have strengthened my faith, and
for that, I am grateful.

You may join a group called “Cursillo” if what you are yearning
for is others to share your faith-walk with. DECOLORES

I am trying to have faith but continually failing. I just don’t know what I am doing wrong. I usually get enough sleep, but prayer seems meaningless to me regardless of when I pray, where I pray, or how I pray. I wish I felt joy when I pray like you do.

 

[Awake]

Awake,

      the only place you can receive faith is from the source of faith itself, Jesus Christ. Go to Him and ask, that he give you faith.

Many people follow religion until the point it wears off and becomes meaningless. They only way for religion to make any sense is to have faith, and only God can give you the gift of faith.

No religion, no person, no amount of human rationality, can give you faith. It all must come from God.

You however, must be open to faith.

Also, ignore everyone else’s experience in faith. God comes to us individually, and reveals himself, according to your need. How God revealed Himself to me, may not be appropriate for you and how He reveals Himself to you, will not be appropriate for anyone else. The key is, open your heart to Him, he will come to you, however that may happen.

God Bless
Jim

What more am I supposed to do to be open to faith?

 

[Awake]

Many people are religious but have no relationship with Jesus.
The question is do you want religion or relation?

Religion can worn you out, relation will bring you into God’s love.
Religion may not make sense, relationship with Jesus always brings comfort and meaning.

I need to know Jesus before I can have a relationship with him. I know a lot about him (well, at least what other people tell me about him), but I don’t know him.

Have you asked Jesus to come into your heart?

Yes.

Have you asked him to show Himself to you?

Yes.

Have you tell Him all your struggles like you told here online, and ask for his help?

Yes.

 

[jmeyer3131]

Awake, if you would like, please feel free to PM me. I could share with you some things about my journey and my brother’s journey. I don’t know if they would be of help or not, but there is always the possibility.

I can say this much: I understand all to well what you say. Almost everything that you posted is something I can relate to.

 

[InLight247]

You are very right. Knowing about Jesus and knowing Jesus are two different things.
You are also right that you have to know a person before having a relationship with the person.
However, getting to know someone is the beginning of building a relationship, if the pursuit persists.

To me, Jesus is more real than a person standing by my desk. Even I cannot physically see Him, His presence is everywhere in my life. I am sure you agree that just because our physical eyes don’t see something, it does not mean that thing does not exist.
I think you believe in Jesus. The question is how to link the Savior, our Lord to your daily life and perceive the connection real.

I was baptized in college. Recollecting my own journey from a beginner to today, there are multiple ways helped me know Jesus better.
I know Him by reading His Words from the Bible, reflecting the meaning I learned, and apply them to my daily life.
I know Him by frequently receiving the Sacraments, especially Holy Communion and Reconciliation.
I know Him by participating discussion groups and sharing each other’s testimony.
I know Him by reading the Saints’ writings as well as different ordinary people’s life testimonies.
I know Him by frequent conversations with Him - prayers.
But most of all, I know Him by my faith and a grateful attitude.

Faith is the substance of things we cannot see. If I believe God is in control, then I know all things in my life are His gifts.
When something I prayed for comes true, it is an obvious confirmation that Jesus has answered it. For example, when I drive into a full parking lot, I will pray for a parking space. When I find one, I will quickly give thanks to Him. This confirms that the Lord is with me. Now, I could not pray for such a small thing, but then I would miss a chance to feel being so well taken care of and give Jesus my thanks. Or I could pray for a parking space but think it was just a coincidence when find one and not give Jesus the credit.

But which way would help me build a relationship?

If you bring every detail of your life to Jesus and ask for His help, you will have countless opportunities to count your blessings and know how real Jesus is. If you are willing to share your life with Him, you will not only build a relationship with Him, but an intimate relationship. Your heart will be full of joy and reassurance. You will be delighted with His presence and His loving gaze will be upon you. The joy of the Lord is my strength.

Of course, my prayers are not always answered as the way I want it. That is when the trust comes in. And looking back, I have to say His way is always much higher than my way.

I hope you continue to seek Jesus and try what I mentioned above.

In my prayers.

 

[InLight247]

And as a follow up, you can read this to help you with the presence of God: catholicity.com/devoutlife/2-02.html

Saint Francis de Sales teachings are very practical.

I hope this helps.

 

[sweetpea8319]

Hi Awake,

I was reading yours and the others posts, and I can’t help but think that you are experiencing what many of the great saints have entitled a “dark night of the soul”. Have you heard of this? I think Mother Teresa was one such who experienced these times where she felt empty, a lack of the presence of God in her.

I would suggest with a heartfelt prayer for you, that you read about some of these saints’ lives, find out what they did to combat this darkness, and just always rely on the fact that God does hear you and your prayers, even when you are in this dark period. Do not give up on your faith, but let your passion and need to seek God lead you closer to Him, even when you feel he is not there.

 

[thomasf]

I’m sorry, but I can’t accept something just because somebody says it’s true. I know you’re not intending to say this, but this is what it sounds like you’re saying: “You need to believe in X even though you haven’t seen it, heard it, or felt it, and it doesn’t make sense to you. You need to believe because somebody else believes it’s true.”

I’ve asked for faith many times, but I don’t seem to get it. I know you probably think I’m holding back something because I secretly want to be an atheist. In fact, it’s the opposite. I want to be Catholic. I really don’t want to become an atheist. I think the only thing that’s holding me back from being an atheist is my desire to be Catholic and my fear of being wrong.

That’s what it sounds like to you because that’s how you’re hearing it. I didn’t say you should believe it because someone says so. But you should believe because God tells you.

What I said was God gives you the ability to believe through His grace. Grace is the power of faith. You must be open to that grace to believe.

What do I mean by being open? It’s pretty obvious in the things you write. You place a lot of weight on proof and ‘seeing’. That’s not what faith is about. Until you can let that go, you won’t be open to that proof.

What I always hear from atheists is they need proof to believe in God. I can’t give you proof. No one can but God. And He doesn’t always oblige. Getting past that need for proof is something you need to work on yourself. And I can’t help you there, I’ve never had that block myself.

I do like the suggestion about getting to know Jesus. Not know about Him, but know Him. Through His words, His works, His deeds, His love, etc.

 

[sweetpea8319]

Hi again, i just posted to you, and after reading a little more, I think you may be in what they consider a “dry spell”, but if you research about the “dark night of the soul”, Mother Teresa, St. John of the cross are a couple who wrote about it, it may help you to find sustenence and a deeper love of Christ, as well as help you to deepen your relationship to our Lord, even when you are not “feeling” as if you are receiving His graces.

In Christ