Tired

[Awake]

Then I know other people need the parking spaces more than I do.
I can park far away and walk. And walking is good for me. I still thank Him. Like I mentioned earlier, his way is always higher than my way.

I was just using “parking space”, a little thing in daily life, to explain my point. My point is with an attitude of gratitude, we will know how to count our blessings. When we know how to count our blessings, not only we’ll receive more new blessings, we also know more clearly that God exists and He cares.

Don’t you have many blessings in your life? Your life, your health, your family, your friends, your school or job, etc… Where do you think these blessings come from?

I do have blessings in life. I also have shortcomings in life.

And that’s why I could never use this logic to believe that God exists. If I say that I have blessings in life and that shows that God loves me, I would also be able to say that because of the shortcomings in my life, God doesn’t love me. Or I could say that God doesn’t love somebody who isn’t blessed in life.

You say that when you pray for a parking spot and there’s an open spot, God answered your prayer. And when you pray for a spot and there are no open spots, God was telling you that you shouldn’t have a spot.

That makes sense to you, but not to me. What makes sense to me is that I will find a parking spot if there are less cars in the lot than the total number of spots, regardless of whether I pray for a spot or not.

If both of us were in the same situation, we would probably have the same outcome (either we would find a spot or we wouldn’t). But you would explain the outcome was a result of your prayer. I would explain the outcome as a result of the number of cars already in the parking lot.

 

[Awake]

Well, I’m sorry to tell you this, but you can’t try for faith. It just
gets given to you. No one can say, “I did X,Y, and Z, and I got
faith”.

Well, Catholicism says the faith is both a grace and a work.

The grace is something I have no control over. All I can do is ask (which I have). The work is something that I have done.

And yet, I still don’t have faith. What else am I supposed to do?

 

[Awake]

Awake,

This statement really stands out. Can you honestly say that in your whole life, you have NEVER witnessed a miracle?

I don’t know how old you are, but it would be impossible that as an adult, you have never witnessed one. The more likely scenario is that you don’t recognize them.

Perhaps, it is not God that is the problem. Perhaps it is the fact that you feel you seem to feel resentful or left out because you don’t have some showy miraculous tale to testify about to to others. There are miracles, innumerable, occurring at this very second.

I challenge you to come up with ONE miracle that you have witnessed in your lifetime.

I am a young adult. The only thing close to a miracle I have seen is a shadow on a wall that the whole town claims was the silhouette of the virgin Mary. To me, it looked like a shadow that vaguely looked like the shape of a person. I wouldn’t consider that a miracle and more than the image of Mary appearing in a grilled cheese sandwich.

There’s nothing else I’ve seen that was a miracle. I would like to see a miracle (even it’s small), although I am not constantly searching for one. I’m not the kind of person that would want to gloat about witnessing a miracle to others.

 

[Awake]

It was both. There were some gradual changes, things that opened me up to the possibility that Christians were right, but I still couldn’t say I believed. In fact, I had gotten to the point where I was telling a friend that I didn’t know what more I could want because all the evidence was there, but still I doubted.

Then, February 21, there was an epiphany, but it was completely tied in with the 10 years of doubt and learning.

To explain the things I did on this forum, and to tell you about what happened on February 21, would take many posts. I’m fine with that if others are helped by it, but I don’t particularly want to open myself up to criticisms for my doubts or the way I went about trying to resolve them.

I do know exactly what you mean, though, about wanting reasons to believe. I remember, too, many criticisms from people I was turning to for help. Others were willing to help, but didn’t understand why I couldn’t just make a decision to believe.

I’m not sure what to do from here. If you and others think hearing about my journey would be helpful, I can post here. I’d have to think about it, though. I don’t want something that has been incredible for me to be criticized publicly.

No, that’s alright. I don’t want you to open up uncomfortably. I’ve heard many conversion stories and usually don’t get much out of them, so I don’t want you to go through a lot of trouble posting yours. Thanks anyways, though, and thank you for the support.

 

[Sheeniac]

Awake, I was an atheist for 25 years. Stumbling upon Case for Christ and Case for Faith by Lee Strobel helped overcome my intellectual doubts. Not at first, but over the course of a year or two I read them more than once.

I realized that it was true, and I had to believe.

It’s that last 5% that was tough. The emotional leap, not initiated by me, but by the Holy Spirit.

I found a black and white TV show with some guy talking about Christianity vs Buddhism, and how they approached Man and Salvation differently. I watched. I became enthralled. And I fell in love.

The show is on EWTN - Life is Worth Living with Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.

I then noticed the Pope, B16. I learned more about him. And I fell in love all over again.

Then I realized, that if I loved these 2 mere men, that He who sent them was Someone I could love even more. And then it happened. I believed with my heart as well as my mind. I saw the light of God reflecting in their faces, and I realized that the source of that light must be brighter than the imagination.

The Holy Spirit converts us. There’s a litany to the Holy Ghost - perhaps you may wish to pray that and invite Him into your soul.

 

[Awake]

“Pick up your cross, and follow Me…”

That would be fine if I could believe he existed.

Jesus answers a lot of questions in the Gospels, but he never deals with atheism, probably because it wasn’t an issue back then. He does say that no sign will be given except for the prophets. And he does say that one needs faith and that even a little faith will go a long way. But neither of those help me at all.

 

[Awake]

Awake, I was an atheist for 25 years. Stumbling upon Case for Christ and Case for Faith by Lee Strobel helped overcome my intellectual doubts. Not at first, but over the course of a year or two I read them more than once.

I realized that it was true, and I had to believe.

It’s that last 5% that was tough. The emotional leap, not initiated by me, but by the Holy Spirit.

I found a black and white TV show with some guy talking about Christianity vs Buddhism, and how they approached Man and Salvation differently. I watched. I became enthralled. And I fell in love.

The show is on EWTN - Life is Worth Living with Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.

I then noticed the Pope, B16. I learned more about him. And I fell in love all over again.

Then I realized, that if I loved these 2 mere men, that He who sent them was Someone I could love even more. And then it happened. I believed with my heart as well as my mind. I saw the light of God reflecting in their faces, and I realized that the source of that light must be brighter than the imagination.

The Holy Spirit converts us. There’s a litany to the Holy Ghost - perhaps you may wish to pray that and invite Him into your soul.

I’ll add Lee Strobel to my reading list. I have read quite a bit, though, on the subject. I have prayed the litany of the Holy Ghost, but I’ll try praying it again.

 

[jmeyer3131]

No, that’s alright. I don’t want you to open up uncomfortably. I’ve heard many conversion stories and usually don’t get much out of them, so I don’t want you to go through a lot of trouble posting yours. Thanks anyways, though, and thank you for the support.

I think the actual “epiphany” itself wouldn’t be helpful, but I was thinking that some of the things I did along the way might be useful to you.

I don’t know if this will encourage you or discourage you, but I’m quite a bit older than you. What I’m trying to say is that even though it’s felt like such a long time of struggling for you, you never know when it will bear fruit.

For me, I’m glad I didn’t give up. It was well worth hanging in there.

 

[Sheeniac]

I’ll add Lee Strobel to my reading list. I have read quite a bit, though, on the subject. I have prayed the litany of the Holy Ghost, but I’ll try praying it again.

Lee Strobel is a former long-term atheist who is married. His wife became a Christian, and he decided to go interview all the experts with the big issues of belief. He was able to do this due to work connections (he was a journalist).

Against his will, he became convinced that Christianity was Truth. Kinda’ like most of us who were atheists for any length of time - it was truly against our will and desire. I had no animosity towards religion (in the beginning, yes), but simply had no belief, nor desire for belief. You are ahead of the game. You have the desire and much of the knowledge.

There’s nothing wrong with doubts. But you must focus in on satisfying these doubts.

His book addressed so many pertinent issues and intellectual arguments that I don’t hesitate to recommend it strongly.

 

[Tracy07]

I’m sorry, but I can’t accept something just because somebody says it’s true. I know you’re not intending to say this, but this is what it sounds like you’re saying: “You need to believe in X even though you haven’t seen it, heard it, or felt it, and it doesn’t make sense to you. You need to believe because somebody else believes it’s true.”

I’ve asked for faith many times, but I don’t seem to get it. I know you probably think I’m holding back something because I secretly want to be an atheist. In fact, it’s the opposite. I want to be Catholic. I really don’t want to become an atheist. I think the only thing that’s holding me back from being an atheist is my desire to be Catholic and my fear of being wrong.

Hi there jesus said ‘happy are those who do not see but believe’ faith is not about believing because others say it is true its about what you believe is true thats the point.
I myself have never had a vision my miracles are my children often we dont see miracles because we are not in the right mind set to see them it doesnt mean they arent there but i believe with every fibre of my body and soul that what my faith teaches is true.
I think everyone at some point in life struggles with their faith its what makes us human but the important thing is to come back to the lord.
Have you had something bad happen to you or a family member lately that can make you question your faith? often that is what happens, or maybe its just being around other people who dont believe that is making you rethink your faith.
The only thing i can say to you is to pray and trust in god to bring you back to him, sometimes bad things that happen can make us question but the lord said ‘i am with you always til the end of time’ even when we are questioning he is there, ask him the questions he will answer them.
you will be in my prayers.

x

 

[Awake]

Hi there jesus said ‘happy are those who do not see but believe’ faith is not about believing because others say it is true its about what you believe is true thats the point.
I myself have never had a vision my miracles are my children often we dont see miracles because we are not in the right mind set to see them it doesnt mean they arent there but i believe with every fibre of my body and soul that what my faith teaches is true.
I think everyone at some point in life struggles with their faith its what makes us human but the important thing is to come back to the lord.

It’s not really a matter of coming back for me because I never really had faith to begin with.

Have you had something bad happen to you or a family member lately that can make you question your faith? often that is what happens, or maybe its just being around other people who dont believe that is making you rethink your faith.

No. There’s been no particularly bad things that have happened to me recently.

 

[cheeto1]

Awake;3538811The work is something that I have done.:

The apostles themselves asked Jesus for more faith, so
you are in good company. Did Jesus give them anything
more they could do? No. Yet did they stop their efforts to
get to know Him better? No. And they DID receive more
faith, to the point that they all gave their lives for Him
(except John who died of natural causes) Well, it’s a good
thing they just didn’t say “o.k. Jesus you took too long, I’m
not interested in you anymore”.

 

[fhansen]

Awake,
Even people who’ve had intense experiences of God can question their faith because we’re only human and in this life we’re cut off from Gods’ immediate presence and asked to walk by faith, not sight. God wants it that way, for whatever reason. He wants us to strive, to contribute our part, to endure, persevere, and to love Him in spite of our pride and the pride of this world which rebels against His authority. And He knows that’s not so easy so He promises to give us a little help- just enough so that we can persevere but not enough that it overrides our free choice in the matter.

Be aggressive with your seeking. Look for truth wherever it leads you. If the Catholic faith can’t withstand that, then it’s not worth holding on to. I mean that-that’s the way I’ve done it, FWIW. But even within our Catholic faith, it’s ok to be more still. You don’t need to work so hard at it. God is much simpler than all that in a way and we need to give Him the chance to show us instead of us thinking we need to propel our faith continuously-in fear of this or that. He is LOVE. He knows us better than we know ourselves and wants better for us then we can begin to imagine. He won’t leave you just because you question Him. He knows about all that, too and, in fact, He can only work with us when we get honest with ourselves about where we’re at.

But having said that, I believe you probably have more faith than you know and that God will lead you to see that in the end it’s difficult to make sense of many things in this world-especially the existence of things like love and evil, without the Catholic worldview. Look at what our faith is really all about. The Catholic faith is, first and foremost, a simple message declaring to the world that God exists, God is love, that humans have rejected that love in favor of their own agenda, placing themselves in His stead, and the world operates according to that scenario to this day. And that we have the opportunity here to find out that life ain’t so great nor happiness possible to achieve without Him-and that He is simply calling us back, if we’re willing, to a right order of the universe. It’s not reason that rejects that message-it’s plausible enough-it’s just our inherited ignorance combined with our own desire to stay the way we are-conformed to this world and afraid of it’s opinion.

But while the existence of at least a creator-god is plausible enough, the existence of evil is by far the most difficult item to grapple with. The possibility for moral evil is easily enough explained by the radical freedom which humans possess but the reasons for God allowing such a freedom is more difficult to understand. But even then I can’t help but cherish both the existence I’ve been given along with a freedom which offers me the potential to choose between becoming a truly great being or a petty selfish one who snubs his nose at this offer and clings to his life with whatever things and pleasures and glory (pride) he can accumulate during the few years he’s here-even if sometimes that selfishness causes suffering for others.

So for me the gospel makes sense which means the CC makes sense and if any of this makes sense to you then great. Otherwise, sorry I ran on so long.

 

[Awake]

The apostles themselves asked Jesus for more faith, so
you are in good company. Did Jesus give them anything
more they could do? No. Yet did they stop their efforts to
get to know Him better? No. And they DID receive more
faith, to the point that they all gave their lives for Him
(except John who died of natural causes) Well, it’s a good
thing they just didn’t say “o.k. Jesus you took too long, I’m
not interested in you anymore”.

I hardly think my situation compares to those of the apostles. The apostles saw, heard, witnessed, and experienced Jesus first hand. I haven’t.

 

[Awake]

Awake,
Even people who’ve had intense experiences of God can question their faith because we’re only human and in this life we’re cut off from Gods’ immediate presence and asked to walk by faith, not sight. God wants it that way, for whatever reason. He wants us to strive, to contribute our part, to endure, persevere, and to love Him in spite of our pride and the pride of this world which rebels against His authority. And He knows that’s not so easy so He promises to give us a little help- just enough so that we can persevere but not enough that it overrides our free choice in the matter.

But the Bible seems pretty clear to me: those who believe will have eternal life. Catholicism says that atheism is one of the biggest problems of our time. I haven’t read anywhere in the Bible or in church documents that say as long as we try to believe, God will be happy.

Belief and faith in Christ seems like such an underlying importance. It makes me wonder why if it is so important, why do some people have so much difficulty with it?

Be aggressive with your seeking. Look for truth wherever it leads you. If the Catholic faith can’t withstand that, then it’s not worth holding on to. I mean that-that’s the way I’ve done it, FWIW. But even within our Catholic faith, it’s ok to be more still. You don’t need to work so hard at it. God is much simpler than all that in a way and we need to give Him the chance to show us instead of us thinking we need to propel our faith continuously-in fear of this or that. He is LOVE. He knows us better than we know ourselves and wants better for us then we can begin to imagine. He won’t leave you just because you question Him. He knows about all that, too and, in fact, He can only work with us when we get honest with ourselves about where we’re at.

I truly hope you’re right about this. There are numerous theologians out there that with disagree with you.

But having said that, I believe you probably have more faith than you know and that God will lead you to see that in the end it’s difficult to make sense of many things in this world-especially the existence of things like love and evil, without the Catholic worldview. Look at what our faith is really all about. The Catholic faith is, first and foremost, a simple message declaring to the world that God exists, God is love, that humans have rejected that love in favor of their own agenda, placing themselves in His stead, and the world operates according to that scenario to this day. And that we have the opportunity here to find out that life ain’t so great nor happiness possible to achieve without Him-and that He is simply calling us back, if we’re willing, to a right order of the universe. It’s not reason that rejects that message-it’s plausible enough-it’s just our inherited ignorance combined with our own desire to stay the way we are-conformed to this world and afraid of it’s opinion.

But I don’t desire to be an atheist. If I did, there wouldn’t be any problem at all. I wouldn’t bother asking everybody for advice and I wouldn’t spend so much time worrying about it.

But while the existence of at least a creator-god is plausible enough, the existence of evil is by far the most difficult item to grapple with. The possibility for moral evil is easily enough explained by the radical freedom which humans possess but the reasons for God allowing such a freedom is more difficult to understand. But even then I can’t help but cherish both the existence I’ve been given along with a freedom which offers me the potential to choose between becoming a truly great being or a petty selfish one who snubs his nose at this offer and clings to his life with whatever things and pleasures and glory (pride) he can accumulate during the few years he’s here-even if sometimes that selfishness causes suffering for others.

For me personally, the issue of evil has never been a stumbling block.

 

[Tracy07]

Hi awake could it be that you are looking too had for answers? often when we over analyse things we lose sight of what it was we wanted to find out in the first place, maybe you just need to let the answers come to you?
It sounds as though when growing up you grew up just accepting things because thats the way you were brought up but often for many of us when we get older we need to change the way we view things and it seems like you are doing that by constantly looking for answers.
Often there are no answers and it sometimes just comes down to blind faith, but maybe going through what you are right now will lead to you strengthening your relationship with god in time.
Doing something because you fear something can also lead to running away from that maybe this is the case with you? I truly hope you find the answers you crave, sometimes you need to stop searching for the answers and maybe even rethink the questions.
I hope it makes some sense with you it did in my head anyway
x

 

[cheeto1]

I hardly think my situation compares to those of the apostles. The apostles saw, heard, witnessed, and experienced Jesus first hand. I haven’t.

This is my point exactly. Who could have more faith than the
apostles? Yet they asked Jesus for more, and with an exclamation point (increase our faith!) Naturally you want more, we all want more. You say you don’t have any, but if you didn’t
have any, you wouldn’t want more.

Is there something else you want besides faith? Let me ask
this: If God gives you faith, how will you know when you have it?
Then…what will you do when you have it? and how will you feel?

 

[Awake]

Hi awake could it be that you are looking too had for answers? often when we over analyse things we lose sight of what it was we wanted to find out in the first place, maybe you just need to let the answers come to you?

Maybe. I do tend to over analyze things. But I didn’t know there was such a thing as looking too hard for God.

It sounds as though when growing up you grew up just accepting things because thats the way you were brought up but often for many of us when we get older we need to change the way we view things and it seems like you are doing that by constantly looking for answers.

No, I don’t think that is quite it. I don’t think I’m questioning because I’m looking for change. I’m questioning because I’m always interested in the truth. I’d like to find out the truth no matter how unpleasant it is.

Often there are no answers and it sometimes just comes down to blind faith, but maybe going through what you are right now will lead to you strengthening your relationship with god in time.

But still, blind faith at least implies some sort of faith. You still have that gut feeling that you know it’s true even if you may not be able to see it. That’s what I’m lacking.

Doing something because you fear something can also lead to running away from that maybe this is the case with you? I truly hope you find the answers you crave, sometimes you need to stop searching for the answers and maybe even rethink the questions.
I hope it makes some sense with you it did in my head anyway
x

What I fear is being wrong and going to hell. But you do bring up a good point: maybe I have to rethink my questions.

 

[Awake]

This is my point exactly. Who could have more faith than the
apostles? Yet they asked Jesus for more, and with an exclamation point (increase our faith!) Naturally you want more, we all want more. You say you don’t have any, but if you didn’t
have any, you wouldn’t want more.

Why not? If I had no faith at all, I would still crave it.

Is there something else you want besides faith?

Well, yeah. I want the truth. I could just not think about it at all and brainwash myself into thinking that I believe in God, but that’s not what I want. I want to learn the truth and then live my life accordingly.

Let me ask this: If God gives you faith, how will you know when you have it?

I will be able to pray and feel confident that somebody is actually hearing my prayers.

Then…what will you do when you have it?

Share my faith and evangelize.

and how will you feel?

I don’t know. Hopefully good.

 

[Tracy07]

Hi awake i didnt mean by over analysing things that you were looking too hard for god, thats the point god is always there even when you feel hes not, its about sometimes stopping the whole questioning and let him come to you if that makes any sense at all
As for you not having faith, you are questioning so you must have some, if you didnt you wouldnt bother with wanting to find out.

Sometimes it feels like we have no faith when in fact the opposite is true, we have faith but we question, as someone else said even jesus disciples questioned and they were with him.

Maybe the fact you have been around people that do not have faith in god has thrown your own faith and views up in the air, even though you feel you have never had any? sometimes we need to surround ourselves with people who do have that faith in order to get us back to where we want to be.

I hope i have helped in some small way even if all of it didnt make sense but only a little something did.


x