Tithing - What is considered a "family"?

[the_phoenix]

It seems that many posters would rather support their parishes minimally [and from newspaer accounts: then complain to high heaven when they are closed for lack of financial support] rather than give generously and watch what God would do with that financial support…

What I feel called to do is to give a larger percentage of my Sunday offering to the inner city parish downtown where I attend the indult Latin Mass which is really hurting for money rather than to my “official” parish which is incredibly wealthy. The Latin Mass parish takes in roughly $3,000 per week (I’ve seen it vary from $2,900 to $3,100), whereas my home parish takes in roughly $30,000 per week (I’ve seen the collection go as high as $34,000 on a good week). The Latin Mass parish has an uncertain future in Cleveland’s “Vibrant Parish Life” = “downsizing” as in combining with two other parishes such that the possibility of closing has not been ruled out vs. my official parish which is so brimming with funds that the pastor smiled a beaming smile and thanked us the week that the “Vibrant Parish Life” report came out … my English-language Mass parish is nowhere near being on the chopping block nor needing to face drastic changes.

I am hopeful that since the Latin Mass parish has a special ongoing kneeler fundraising program currently in progress that the parish will remain open. Meanwhile, my “official” home parish already has cushy, luxurious kneelers.

~~ the phoenix

 

[1ke]

It seems that many posters would rather support their parishes minimally [and from newspaer accounts: then complain to high heaven when they are closed for lack of financial support] rather than give generously and watch what God would do with that financial support…

I have not seen anyone suggest this, except the OP who has decided to give the majority of her money to animal charities.

 

[YADA]

Average per registered family parish support in America is very low, in my diocese the last staistics I saw were about $6 per registered household per week or $312 per year. $25 per week per family is unheard of for any parish statistics I have seen. Many parishioners donate zero $$’'s.

Statistically; Catholics give less than any other Christian denomination. See this worldvision.org/worldvision/pr.nsf/stable/20020423_barna

Where this is found

Protestants gave away an average of 57 percent more money than did Catholics ($1,379 compared to $878).

 

[1ke]

YADA, You did not answer the question I asked.

You said, “It seems that many posters…”

This indicates you are referring to people posting on this thread, not average giving statistics from a website.

So, again, please point me to the posts and posters who have suggested that they would “rather support their parishes minimally [and from newspaer accounts: then complain to high heaven when they are closed for lack of financial support] rather than give generously and watch what God would do with that financial support….”

 

[Ridgerunner]

MODERATORS: Only 15% of the “families” gave $25 or more per week. That just does seem fair to me. We’re talking about an area where the fair market value of 90% of the homes exceeds $125k. BTW, this is in north Texas.

Wildly guessing, but based on what I know of the “Bible Belt” generally, I would guess that the percentage of non-Hispanic Catholics in the North Texas population is miniscule. I was amused once when a fellow from West Texas who moved here said, upon learning to his surprise that I am Catholic: “I thought Catholicism was some kind of Mexican religion”, he said, amiably.

Lots of Hispanics in Texas are just getting their economic feet on the ground, as it were. Therefore, I’m not sure how many Catholics in North Texas are all that wealthy.

But notwithstanding that quibble, I don’t think I have ever heard a very good explanation of just what it is we ought to contribute, and what counts for what. I apologized once to our parish priest because my contribution was far from 10%, even of my net after taxes. But I was spending thousands every year to give my children a Catholic education. The priest told me that tuition counted, and not to worry about it.

If I give all my discretionary income for a couple of years so my son so he can make a down payment on a house so he and their family can have a home of their own, am I cheating the Church?

My parish just spent 2.6 million on a new parish hall (read: “adult entertainment and bureaucracy center”) and $70,000 on a totally negligent, halfhearted “restoration” of the rather dilapidated church building. So, does my daughter need to borrow more money to attend her Catholic graduate school so my parish can hire all kinds of paid “ministers” to conduct seminars on loving, caring and sharing, and buy appliances, furnishings and utensils for the adult parties?

My guess is that I don’t have to tell my daughter to plunge into ever more debt, or tell my son he doesn’t really need a home so I can support things like the above. But you know, we are supposed to work out our salvation with “fear and trembling”, not to mention humility, and despite the fact that I think I know the answer, I would still like to see someone in the Church really do a definitive job on teaching about all this. I really would.

 

[paramedicgirl]

No, it is not.

Please show me where the Church requires TITHING. It does not.

I am quite familiar with the precepts of the Church, none of which require tithing.

Tithing is not the same as assisting “with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.”

I guess it’s all in the interpretation.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Lest people misunderstand, I still give to my parish and also to other Catholic institutions. But it’s sure not 10% of my gross income.

 

[1ke]

I guess it’s all in the interpretation.

No, it’s not. Tithing, in the bible, is something very specific.

 

[the_phoenix]

People can help themselves, but animals are defenseless.

I would like to offer a gentle reminder that the innocent unborn child in his or her mother’s womb is also defenseless.

Yours “for life,”

~~ the phoenix

 

[paramedicgirl]

No, it’s not. Tithing, in the bible, is something very specific.

It means to voluntarily give away ten percent of your income to the church, to assist with its material needs, does it not? We are not required to give away ten percent, but we are required to support the material needs of the church according to our means.

 

[the_phoenix]

But notwithstanding that quibble, I don’t think I have ever heard a very good explanation of just what it is we ought to contribute, and what counts for what. I apologized once to our parish priest because my contribution was far from 10%, even of my net after taxes. But I was spending thousands every year to give my children a Catholic education. The priest told me that tuition counted, and not to worry about it.

By chance, I’m also looking at a webpage for a religious community right now, and here’s what’s quoted there:

“Consider this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each must do as already determined without sadness or compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
2 Cor. 9:7

Surely, God takes into account individual circumstances. Once when I went to a Christ Renews His Parish retreat weekend, we were asked to pay what we could afford, be it nothing on up to $35. Being unemployed at the time, I could not afford to pay anything at all, and went and told the pastor, who completely, and with kindness, understood. Meanwhile, it seems to me that the retreat weekend was worth far more than $35. Now that I have been blessed with steady employment, it’s an entirely different situation, of course, and I am able to give something back.

As for donating and wondering whether the money is actually going to support something worthwhile, one way to combat that is to get to know a priest, nun, Order, on a more in-depth, personal level … Then give specially to those with whom you’ve established a trusting relationship.

I was lucky to know two missionary priests while growing up, one a distant relative and the other a close family friend, both of whom would visit when they were allowed back in the United States on leave once every several years. Plus I’ve been priviliged to live near cloistered convents where the nuns pray for your emergency situations if you call them … the one year when times were really hard while I was unemployed, it was so touching to receive a card from the Poor Clares granting me a free gift of a novena of Christmas Masses even though I hadn’t been able to send them a donation that year. They actually said once they prefer groceries to dollars, I would assume both for the spiritual benefit of the giver giving more of themselves as well as the practical reason that they only have two extern sisters who are premitted to leave the grounds and go shopping for the needs of the Community.

And then there was Sister Helen and her Food Pantry … One day I went in with a very modest donation of old clothes, and while I was still there, saw a migrant family come in and a girl who truly needed it walk out very happy with one of the jackets I was giving away.

~~ the phoenix

 

[PaulinVA]

Average per registered family parish support in America is very low, in my diocese the last staistics I saw were about $6 per registered household per week or $312 per year. $25 per week per family is unheard of for any parish statistics I have seen. Many parishioners donate zero $$’'s.

Statistically; Catholics give less than any other Christian denomination. See this worldvision.org/worldvision/pr.nsf/stable/20020423_barna

Where this is found

Yada,
From pure economics, my 3500 family parish doesn’t need as much money per family to keep running than the protestant church down the street with 100 people (not families). OF COURSE they have to give more per person, or per family. There are fewer of them in each parish/church and they still have buildings to heat and outreach to do, AND pastors/associates salaries to pay.

My parish gives 10% of the Sunday offering to charitable causes, and then runs the physical plant and all of the other ministries. Only about 1000 families regularly contribute.

 

[1ke]

It means to voluntarily give away ten percent of your income to the church, to assist with its material needs, does it not?

Not in the bible.

However, that is what is now commonly meant by tithing-- 10% of gross income.

We are not required to give away ten percent, but we are required to support the material needs of the church according to our means.

Yes, and supporting the material needs of the Church is not the same as tithing. For some, it may be less than 10% and for others it might be more than 10%. In addition, non-monetary support is also part of stewardship.

 

[goofyjim]

Not in the bible.

However, that is what is now commonly meant by tithing-- 10% of gross income.

Yes, and supporting the material needs of the Church is not the same as tithing. For some, it may be less than 10% and for others it might be more than 10%. In addition, non-monetary support is also part of stewardship.

If I were to tithe 10% I could not pay my bills. Rent, car insurance and other things like that need to be paid. The precepts of the Church say support according to means. This may be more or less than 10%. What I am unable to do financially I do in prayer. That is also charity.

 

[LeahInancsi]

We shouldn’t concern ourselves with hwat others do or do not give to the Church. There may be other mitigating factors that lessen the ability to tithe. It is not a precept of the Church to tithe, only to support to the extent that you are able. Let’s leave that judgement to the individual’s conscience.

While what you say is true, I still feel that pastors publish this information to shame parishioners into giving more.

Currently, in my own situation, it is very difficult for me to tithe very much because I’m not working, and have not received access to 401(k) and IRA money and the large family nest egg has not come into my possession. In five to ten years, I can give the big bucks.

 

[goofyjim]

While what you say is true, I still feel that pastors publish this information to shame parishioners into giving more.

Currently, in my own situation, it is very difficult for me to tithe very much because I’m not working, and have not received access to 401(k) and IRA money and the large family nest egg has not come into my possession. In five to ten years, I can give the big bucks.

If they are trying to shame the parishioners then shame on the pastors. You do not force charity. Charity must be freely given.

 

[LeahInancsi]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

I thought you might want to know what the Church has to say about that.

I know that the Church holds very little regard for animals, but from my current perspective, I see that my money can go much further to help innocent animals than lazy people in this country. Perhaps, before my last day comes, I will find a needy third world organization who can truly help those who cannot help themselves. I have a good ten years before I will have significant money to give anyone.

When I saw the poor skin and bones dog dodging cars and told my mother that I was going to forget the Church and leave all my money to the Humane Society, that the Church (or the Bible) would object.

 

[LeahInancsi]

I would like to offer a gentle reminder that the innocent unborn child in his or her mother’s womb is also defenseless.

Yours “for life,”

~~ the phoenix

Point well taken. I will add this type of charity to my list.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Although I appreciate everyone’s comments, this topic has jumped the tracks.

I still don’t see the correlation of me being considered a “family” of one and a married couple with two incomes being considered a “family” on the same level as myself.

The topic isn’t really about tithing alone.

 

[the_phoenix]

Although I appreciate everyone’s comments, this topic has jumped the tracks.

I still don’t see the correlation of me being considered a “family” of one and a married couple with two incomes being considered a “family” on the same level as myself.

The topic isn’t really about tithing alone.

The following quote may be slightly jumping the tracks in another direction, but going through Steubenville web pages this evening, I’m on a website for Holy Family Church, and from their definition of “family” it sure sounds like a parish worth joining to me!

We see our parish as a family which includes the unborn, youth, singles, single parents, married, married parents, divorced, separated, widowed and seniors. Because we see Christ in others, we seek out and welcome ALL people.

One would hope that a good parish would indeed recognize the difference between households of one and households of more than one, and not treat all alike, as though every circumstance in every house were the same, and everybody earned the exact same salary to be spent on the exact same bills, some of those bills incorporating medical expenses that others don’t have, for instance.

Basically, it all gets back to the Widow’s Mite, and Jesus sees into the heart and knows what we can and do give, eh?

~~ the phoenix