TLM in English?

[ComradeAndrei]

And the continued insistence on the part of “traditionalists” on things like birettas on priests

Whoa…them’s fightin’ words. I will wear my biretta (God willing I get ordained) and wear it proudly.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Whoa…them’s fightin’ words. I will wear my biretta (God willing I get ordained) and wear it proudly.

I don’t mind the biretta, respected friend, I mind the INSISTENCE on the biretta…or rather, I’m amused by it.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Why must one of these threads get started every few weeks? Why must people try to inflict their vulgar languages on the Old Roman Rite?

People either want the Traditional Latin Mass, or the Novus Ordo in the vernacular. Very few want the Novus Ordo in Latin and none want the TLM in English. Some things were never meant to go together. It’s unnatural.

 

[Karl_Keating]

Those of us who were brought up under the old Mass did not have a problem understanding it because there was a translation of the Latin on the facing page of the missal.

That translation was modern (made in the 1930s or 1940s, I think) and very good: dignified, precise, faithful to the Latin text. And, in case you’re wondering, it wasn’t burdened with archaic language: no thee’s or thou’s. As I said, it was a modern translation but one of a high order.

A friend and I have speculated what might have happened had the only revision of the old Mass been its translation into the vernacular, with the English translation being the one that already appeared in the missals. This would have resolved the chief reason most people give for going to the vernacular–that the folks in the pew couldn’t understand what was going on (though, as I said, that really wasn’t the case, since nearly everyone had missals and followed along by reading the facing pages).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Why must one of these threads get started every few weeks? Why must people try to inflict their vulgar languages on the Old Roman Rite?

People either want the Traditional Latin Mass, or the Novus Ordo in the vernacular. Very few want the Novus Ordo in Latin and none want the TLM in English. Some things were never meant to go together. It’s unnatural.

I’d go to the Tridentine Mass if it were offered in English.

 

[drforjc]

It is not abbreviated. Apart from some changes in the words of consecration, the Latin text of Eucharistic Prayer 1 (from the Sanctus to the Great Amen) is identical to the text of the Roman Canon

Read again, he said “is not translated word-for-word.”

This has nothing to do with the Latin.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

I’d go to the Tridentine Mass if it were offered in English.

Great. Maybe you should petition your bishop, Kirk.

1 out of 1.2 billion…sounds like the start of something big.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

A friend and I have speculated what might have happened had the only revision of the old Mass been its translation into the vernacular, with the English translation being the one that already appeared in the missals. **We might have avoided some (though I doubt all) of the problems. I’m very attached to the Pauline Mass, but even I would admit this. ** This would have resolved the chief reason most people give for going to the vernacular–that the folks in the pew couldn’t understand what was going on (though, as I said, that really wasn’t the case, since nearly everyone had missals and followed along by reading the facing pages). I guess on a fundamental level that’s what I don’t understand: what would have been wrong with that?

I actually quite like “thees” and “thous.” My grandfather still prays that way.

 

[rayne89]

Exactly.

Those attached to the Novus Ordo would not go to the Tridentine Mass no matter what language is used. It’s not the language that gives them trouble, it’s the theology behind the Mass.

Uh…no, that would be incorrect.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Great. Maybe you should petition your bishop, Kirk.

1 out of 1.2 billion…sounds like the start of something big.

You and Palmas can work out the percentage on that, okay? I’ll need it for the petition.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why must one of these threads get started every few weeks?

For the same reason that one of those “Universal Indult to be released says unnamed sources” threads have to be started every few weeks.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

You and Palmas can work out the percentage on that, okay? I’ll need it for the petition.

Darn. I think that fascinating discussion got wiped out in the crash. We may have to revisit that one, with a little help from our Australian friends. (I still say .1 = 10%.)

 

[steve_green_2]

Those of us who were brought up under the old Mass did not have a problem understanding it because there was a translation of the Latin on the facing page of the missal.

That translation was modern (made in the 1930s or 1940s, I think) and very good: dignified, precise, faithful to the Latin text. And, in case you’re wondering, it wasn’t burdened with archaic language: no thee’s or thou’s. As I said, it was a modern translation but one of a high order.

A friend and I have speculated what might have happened had the only revision of the old Mass been its translation into the vernacular, with the English translation being the one that already appeared in the missals. This would have resolved the chief reason most people give for going to the vernacular–that the folks in the pew couldn’t understand what was going on (though, as I said, that really wasn’t the case, since nearly everyone had missals and followed along by reading the facing pages).

Great post Karl !

 

[les]

Born in '46, I grew up with the latin mass. I was a server so I knew the prayers. However, I like the Novus Ordo. I wonder how many remember sitting in the congragation in the olden days. Every LOL (that is “little old lady” not “laughing out loud”) was saying her rosery and half the men were nodding off.

I attended a TLM a few years back but I felt somewhat like a spectator. At the english mass, I feel like a participant.

 

[Turtullian]

Part of the TLM could be said in the vernacular. The French have an indult to say the first part TLM (up to the liturgy of the word) in French. So it is not without precedent.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Part of the TLM could be said in the vernacular. The French have an indult to say the first part TLM (up to the liturgy of the word) in French. So it is not without precedent.

There have been many indults in this history of the TLM to have it done in the vernacular.

Starting in 1570 when it was first promulgated.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Darn. I think that fascinating discussion got wiped out in the crash. We may have to revisit that one, with a little help from our Australian friends. (I still say .1 = 10%.)

You’re right, it does. Was THAT what the hullabloo was over? We just finished that in my fourth grade class.

 

[atsheeran]

Read again, he said “is not translated word-for-word.”

This has nothing to do with the Latin.

Here’s what he said:

Correction- the Eucharistic Prayer #1 is an edited abbreviated version of the Roman Canon and it is not translated word for word, specifically the formula used for the consecration is one change.

I was talking about the portion of his quote before the “and” while you quoted the portion that followed it. If both halves of the sentence were talking about the text in translation then it really doesn’t make any sense. If that were the case the fact that it was edited and abbreviated would have been becase of the fact that it is not translated word for word.

 

[Ghosty]

People either want the Traditional Latin Mass, or the Novus Ordo in the vernacular. Very few want the Novus Ordo in Latin and none want the TLM in English.

My girlfriend would love the TLM, but refuses to go to Masses that aren’t in the vernacular, or at least in languages she can’t understand. It distracts her from the Sanctity of the Mass and her prayers. She and I attend a parish that serves much of the NO in Latin, and that troubles her. The only reason we attend the Mass times that do this is because the one Mass time that uses all English is also the one for the “folksy” types who prefer the typical United States NO

I know enough Latin to follow precisely in a Mass, so that’s not an issue, but with attending the Melkite Liturgy every other week I would not have time to also attend the TLM, and the NO vernacular with my girlfriend. This isn’t likely to change when we get married. If given the choice between the TLM and the vernacular NO, or a non-Roman Liturgy and the NO, I’m going with the non-Roman Liturgy.

So having a Traditional Mass in the vernacular would be a great blessing indeed. I would be the first to attend and promote it.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Ham1]

Darn. I think that fascinating discussion got wiped out in the crash. We may have to revisit that one, with a little help from our Australian friends. (I still say .1 = 10%.)

The problem was that you insisted that .1% = 10%…which of course, is incorrect.

For the record, I would also like to attend the old mass in english. I really like the eastern Divine Liturgy in english. Hopefully, there will be an approved translation of the old mass for use in the US.