TLM minus the Latin

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True story: the Council Fathers never envisioned the Mass of Paul VI. His Missal wasn’t promulgated for years until after the Council ended, after all.

Really what the Council Fathers envisioned was the TLM, but with the readings and Propers in the vernacular (they assumed that any catechized Catholic had a good grasp of the Ordinary, despite it being in Latin). At the time (like now), they were facing the problem of the “four hymn” Mass, where the priest would say the Propers inaudibly while completely unrelated hymns were sung by the choir. They wanted the the laity to experience the beautiful and ancient Propers and hear the ancient Gregorian melodies in the mostly-unused chant books (THAT’S what all of the Popes prior to the Council meant by “active participation in the Mass”, not just doing or saying things).

So their course of action was two things: (1) allow the Propers in the vernacular so that people could understand them, and (2) make an abbreviated Kyriale and Graduale with the easier chants so that the congregation could sing with the choir.

One bishop, during the debate over Sacrosanctum Concilium at the Council, expressed fears that if the Propers were allowed in the vernacular, soon the whole Mass would be too. The entire Council laughed at him! Open-mouth guffawing at such a ridiculous suggestion. Nobody wanted that, so it was a totally unwarranted fear.

Unfortunately, Pope S.D. Paul VI entrusted hyper-liberals like Annibale Bugnini and Joseph Gelineau to the reform, and the committee they were on (the consilium) utterly disdained Catholic tradition, seeing it as vestiges of the Dark Ages. They wanted the Mass to look more like a generic Protestant service. So they generously deleted texts of the Missal and chants that they simply didn’t like, and composed some fresh ones on their own accord, which they dishonestly presented to the Pope as being a resurfacing of an ancient lost tradition (that’s where Eucharistic Prayer II came from; they claimed it was the ancient Canon of Hippolytus slightly tweaked, in reality they have almost no similarities at all). They also wanted to radically reform the Rosary, too, to make it more ecumenically acceptable; but the Pope wisely vetoed that plan.

Contrary to the wishes of the Council Fathers, the consilium actually preferred the “four-hymn Mass” to the Propers, so the consilium promulgated a Simple Gradual which allowed one to replace the texts of the Propers with anything they liked. So the beautiful Gregorian tradition, which the Council wanted the laity to enjoy, was buried even deeper than before the Council. Pope Paul VI began seeing the disastrous effects of the consilium, and in 1974 he sent a booklet called Jubilate Deo to every bishops’ conference in the world, which contained the simplest possible Mass chants and a few hymns, in the hopes that this could be the starting point for a renewal of chant. Sadly, the conferences were uninterested in chant at this point and threw his booklet in the garbage.

Long story short: the Council didn’t want to make drastic changes to the TLM, but the consilium appointed by Pope Paul VI did; and then they lied about the work they did when presenting it to the Pope. That’s why the Novus Ordo is a significant break from tradition.
 
I wonder how many would be in favour of the TLM mass, except having it all done in the vernacular as opposed to Latin. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to the TLM mass, so I am curious to know if it is ever done in vernacular? Would anyone be in favour of it being done in vernacular?

To me having the TLM in vernacular seems like the ideal, but like I said, I am curious as to what those more knowledgeable on the mass think of this idea.
Absolutely not.
 
Wow. A dead thread from 2006 resurrected and brought back to life. Iguess the name was too provocative to be ignored.
 
Pax Christi,
I know this is many years since this thread was posted, but if you are still out there, I am a Croatian Catholic Priest who says the TLM and wants to say the Glagolitic Mass. I have an original Rimski Misal (1928), but when I saw you have a gramophone record of the Glagolitic Mass, I could not resist. How is it possible for me to get audio of that?
Bog i Hrvati,
Don Ante
Brotherhrolf died several years ago. May perpetual light shine upon him.
 
( In Part) . . . The Latin words never change and it also shows a unity of the entire Latin Rite- with you being able to go to Mass in any country and have the words be the same everywhere.

Ken
I have attended Mass throughout Europe, But that was during the Latin Mass period. Not speaking any of the languages fluently, I appreciated the Latin Mass, as I could follow in my Missal. The idea that we should constantly reinterpret the language of our Mass says to me that we don’t REALLY know what should happen. We have decreased the Mass from 5 parts to three ( probably to speed things up), mostly eliminated the Confiteor, and the last Gospel, as well as other parts. Now, it is a fact that I am an old guy, and we will not be around long to bug all you youngsters - so go ahead and do what you want. In the end, you will settle with God, then serve your time where ever HE decides. You can only vote where with the actions of your life.
Marv
 
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