TLM parishes Vs territorial parish culture?

[1ke]

Let’s hope one day that parishes will gradually literally become “Latin mass parishes”

If by that you mean using the Tridentine form of the mass: let’s NOT.

I do like the ordinary from in Latin. I also like the ordinary form in English.

 

[Paul_Edwards]

and miraculously know the state of every soul they encounter

As I said above: (I will not say that they receive in mortal sin but let you draw the natural conclusion yourself rather than make a judgement reserved for Our Lord and the priest in the confessional).

We cannot judge the interior of any individual persons soul, that is for God alone. We can only acknowledge the exterior acts and patterns that clearly take place (for example the drop in size in confessional lines which is obvious). Perhaps we are the ones who are weaker at the Latin mass in fact? Who knows. Maybe we are the worst sinners, but the important thing is bringing that before Gods mercy and trying to change our ways. As our Lord said to the adulterer “Go, and now sin no more.“ (John 8:11).

I know a man that had his first child out of Wedlock that goes to the Latin mass, but as he knows, that was the past and it was before he changed and now he is married and lives his life for God after coming back to the church (after he discovered the Latin mass). So yes we all are sinners but the important thing is acknowledging that. I also know another lady at the Latin mass that thinks of herself as a convert, but after speaking to her she said she’s not a convert in the literal sense but sees herself as one because she wasn’t much of a catholic before she reckons, in fact I think she didn’t go to mass at all, but the important thing is she’s here now that’s what matters

 

[CatholicWife1]

I think the reason the Latin Mass gets labeled as “unfriendly” is because inside the nave, everyone is very serious. But they become super friendly once they enter the narthex and/or parish hall.

I love this.

 

[Paul_Edwards]

If by that you mean using the Tridentine form of the mass: let’s NOT.

Yes that’s what I was referring to

 

[jrgmercado]

Based on several posts, it appears so.

 

[CatholicWife1]

I would warn you, though, that on this forum, calling attention to things such as people not going to confession, being in mortal sin, or using contraceptives (and any connection between these three things), is intensely disliked by some — they call it “judging” and may protest that you can’t know what anyone does unless you ask them.

Agree with this statement. It seems they can’t decipher material sin from formal sin unfortunately.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

What would you suggest then? “Latin Parish,” “Latin Mass Parish,” “Extraordinary Form Parish”?

St XYZ Catholic Parish
Roman Catholic Parish of the Diocese of Y

Just like every other parish.

I think All Saints in Minneapolis is instructive here:

https://fsspminneapolis.org/

All Saints is a personal parish in the archdiocese of St Paul and Minneapolis. They simply designate themselves as a PARISH. Like all other parishes. “The Church of All Saints is a parish of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis staffed by priests of the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP).”

Not a Tridentine Parish. Not a Latin Mass Parish. Not an Extraordinary Form Parish. Primarily because none of those things is a thing. They don’t exist.

Well, of course. That would obviously be the official way.

But I’m referring to the same way that people refer to the Italian Parish or German Parish

 

[phil19034]

Paul_Edwards:

On the contrary, the culture in Novus Ordo Churches even in the most conservative of parishes is sadly not the same, even if there is “one Latin mass per week”. Here most people have their own views on things and most people do not go to confession regular before communion (I will not say that they receive in mortal sin but let you draw the natural conclusion yourself rather than make a judgement reserved for Our Lord and the priest in the confessional). Most people at these parishes use contraceptives (or miraculously have small families or practice abstinence which is most likely not the case on such a massive scale).

Is this how most Latin Mass attending Traditionalists view other Catholics?

No, it is not.

 

[babochka]

phil19034:

What would you suggest then? “Latin Parish,” “Latin Mass Parish,” “Extraordinary Form Parish”?

St XYZ Catholic Parish
Roman Catholic Parish of the Diocese of Y

Just like every other parish.

I think All Saints in Minneapolis is instructive here:

https://fsspminneapolis.org/

All Saints is a personal parish in the archdiocese of St Paul and Minneapolis. They simply designate themselves as a PARISH. Like all other parishes. “The Church of All Saints is a parish of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis staffed by priests of the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP).”

Not a Tridentine Parish. Not a Latin Mass Parish. Not an Extraordinary Form Parish. Primarily because none of those things is a thing. They don’t exist.

Descriptive adjectives can be useful. If I am new to town and appreciate having Jesuit priests as confessors, I might ask if there is a Jesuit parish in town. Or if I appreciate Franciscan spirituality, I might ask if there’s a Franciscan parish around. I don’t think that anybody would go out of their way to correct me and tell me that there is no such thing as a Jesuit parish, but there is a diocesan parish staffed by Jesuits. Likewise, if I asked if a particular diocese has a Portuguese parish, I don’t think I would be corrected and told that there is a personal parish in the diocese that was established to serve Portuguese. Practically speaking, our local fssp Parish is referred to as a “Latin Mass Parish”. It gets the point across.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Either way, those parish for most are not in their town and have to be traveled to

It will be difficult to receive the other sacraments and pastoral guidance not living in that community.

 

[vsedriver]

There is no difference between parishes because of which form of the Mass they use. The difference between parishes is based on who the people are in the parish. Are the majority from a common ethnic background? Is it an elderly parish or one with younger families? City or country? Large or small?

All of these factors will have a far great impact on what the parish is like then which version of liturgy they use.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I would warn you, though, that on this forum, calling attention to things such as people not going to confession, being in mortal sin, or using contraceptives (and any connection between these three things), is intensely disliked by some — they call it “judging” and may protest that you can’t know what anyone does unless you ask them.

Agree with this statement. It seems they can’t decipher material sin from formal sin unfortunately.

OK, but if you don’t mind my clarifying, “material” sin means sin that people are committing, but they do not realize it is sinful, because they’ve never been told. “Formal” sin means that they have been told, they do know they are sinning, but they go ahead and do it anyway.

Catholics being told that something is sinful, saying “yes, I know what the Church teaches, but I don’t agree with the Church, the Church is wrong” is a fairly new phenomenon in the Catholic world — it began around the time Humanae vitae was promulgated in 1968. People were told, by teachers (both clerical and lay) that they could make up their own minds about Church teachings, and obedience to the magisterium disappeared as a concept.

That is the absolute worst thing that could have happened to the world, worse than a third world war, worse than nuclear devastation, and it falls to us who still believe, to stand up and say “No! This is wrong! When the Church teaches, you must listen, you must obey, you must make your mind one with the Church — sentire cum ecclesia!”

What happened in the late 1960s and beyond, even if those teachers were speaking in good faith, is the very same thing as what happened in the exchange between Eve and the serpent — “you will not die”. And as I have pointed out before, look what happened.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

steph03:

Novus Ordo is usually a term used by TLM folks as derogatory…

It will certainly reassure you that there is no derogatory connotation attached to the term “Novus Ordo.” Pope Paul VI used the term in promulgating the Novus Ordo Missae , and just a few years ago, Pope Francis used the term “New Rite of the Mass” in an address to the Church’s liturgists.

There is nothing derogatory about it. It is simply a shorthand way of referring to the Mass of Paul VI and revisions made to it afterwards. Any word can be derogatory if it’s used in a dismissive or hateful way by those who dislike what it signifies.

porthos11:

…a priestly fraternity that has no canonical standing with the Church.

I don’t mean to derail this thread, but I’m surprised that this error is still made in 2020. Being a religio iuris pontificii or a Society of Apostolic Life, in accord with canons 673-674 and 488 3º of the Code of Canon Law in effect at the time, certainly endows a priestly fraternity with canonical status.

How true. The SSPX still exists as a juridical person under canon law.

 

[CRV]

Is there any difference at all? I do sense there to be a stereotype that Traditionals are less friendly

My own experience is, yes there is definitely a difference, and it is the opposite to your comment - it is the people in Ordinary Form parishes who are less friendly.

There’s two Latin Mass communities/parishes wtih the EF Mass in my area and both of these have morning tea after every Mass and it’s been my experience at each one that they are very friendly, welcoming etc.

Whilst some of these O.F. parishes do have other social events during the month, most do not.

Sadly, my experience at standard parishes is that most people don’t even wish to nod an acknowledgement or say hello or good morning after Sunday Mass - the majority just head straight out to their cars.

[Of course others mileage may vary, and there experience may be the exact opposite of mine - all personal experiences are valid and if someone has experienced the opposite to you they do not deserve to be ‘flamed’ on this board either.]

 

[Paul_Edwards]

Thankyou, that’s not how the others were making me feel. Perhaps they don’t make such a distinction for some reason.

Godbless

 

[Emeraldlady]

We cannot judge the interior of any individual persons soul, that is for God alone. We can only acknowledge the exterior acts and patterns that clearly take place (for example the drop in size in confessional lines which is obvious). Perhaps we are the ones who are weaker at the Latin mass in fact? Who knows. Maybe we are the worst sinners, but the important thing is bringing that before Gods mercy and trying to change our ways. As our Lord said to the adulterer “Go, and now sin no more.“ (John 8:11).

Fr Ripperger the exorcist and traditionalist Priest has recently said that this may well be the case. This is being discussed among traditionalist Priest as a grave and urgent problem.

 

[phil19034]

Either way, those parish for most are not in their town and have to be traveled to

It will be difficult to receive the other sacraments and pastoral guidance not living in that community.

Actually, you would be surprised.

Yes, it might be hard for adults to attend adult faith formation classes during the week because it’s not as easy as when a parish is 5/10 minutes down the road. However, the Latin Mass Parishes (esp ones staffed by FSSP) tend to have Child Faith Formation classes on Sundays (between the two Sunday masses for the one by me), they offer confession 7 days a week, and the priests are very responsive via email & phone.

Plus, the fact that they typically have weekly, Sunday socials after mass helps with the community aspect.

Finally, they usually don’t have large numbers of people in RCIA, so they can schedule RCIA around the individual(s) vs having a set class time during the week.

NOTE: There is also a big difference between a Latin Mass Personal Parish & a territorial Parish that has a Latin Mass. The priests who staff territorial parishes with a Latin Mass and/or Latin Mass chapel/mission that are not parishes, typically will be less likely to travel far for other sacraments. But a pastor assigned to a Personal Parish is going to travel anywhere inside his Diocese (within reason) to see parishoners at the hospital, funerals, etc. That’s why the Personal Parish is advantageous vs a Latin Mass at a Territorial Parish.

NOTE 2: Something can be said about masses for other languages too.

 

[phil19034]

Fr Ripperger

Yes. I’ve heard an other FSSP parish say that people who attend the Latin Mass have to be very careful with the sin of Pride.

 

[njlisa]

I’d love to attend at traditional Latin Mass. The chapels around here are small. And I’m afraid I would stick out as a newcomer – even covering my hair and wearing my Sunday best.

 

[phil19034]

I’d love to attend at traditional Latin Mass. The chapels around here are small. And I’m afraid I would stick out as a newcomer – even covering my hair and wearing my Sunday best.

Latin Mass communities love newcomers. They might wait a couple of weeks to see if you stick around first, but they love to welcome newcomers.

There is no reason to be afraid.

Just don’t say “Amen” when receiving communion (which is kneeling & on the tongue only)

God Bless