Why? Give me some support from Scripture or Tradition for this astonishing claim? This is a complete innovation in Christian thought about government, of which there has been a great deal–and yet the people who believe this state it as if it were obvious.
After all, Jesus said very explicitly, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” This gets applied in all sorts of mistaken ways, in my opinion, to justify the idea that the government has its own “sphere” of authority in which it is sovereign and shouldn’t be questioned. But the one thing He was
clearly talking about was paying taxes.
How can you justify the claim that taxation is stealing?
I just gave you your support. Jesus said to give your possessions. If someone forcefully takes your money and does with it whatever they want, isn’t that theft? I totally agree, Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. The problem here is that we don’t have a king. Our elected officials represent we, the people. So our money is ours and we are supposed to have control of how it’s spent. We elect officials who represent us. Well, I don’t vote for officials who want to take even more of our money.
So? How does that make it stealing? The government has the right to tax–Jesus said so.
Just because the government has the right to tax does not mean that it isn’t stealing. Like I said, it’s considered stealing if someone takes your money and spends it how they want, even if it’s to feed themselves. It is no different with the government.
I have no idea why that’s a relevant question. The purpose of taxation is not to make more churches exist, but to provide for the common good.
**
My point was that if people are giving 40%+ of their income, how can they afford to tithe another 10%. That’s half of the income right off the top. **
Well, they aren’t
my founding fathers. I am a resident of the U.S., but have never become a citizen–for several reasons, one of which is that I have doubts about the founding ideology of the country.
But granting the legitimacy of what they did (highly dubious in my opinion by any kind of traditional Christian standard as to what constitutes genuine tyranny), that legitimacy stemmed not from the size of the tax but from the fact that they hadn’t consented to it.
Those who think like you are welcome to campaign for lower taxes. But you have no legitimate grounds on which to claim that taxation is theft.
**Our founding fathers, mainly the puritans, came here to start a pure Christianity. Our revolution was started to be allowed to express their religious freedom. You aren’t a citizen, yet you live here and reap all of the benefits. Why? Because, even with the insanely high tax rates, this is the freest country in the entire world. The problem is that Socialists are invading our government and are beginning to turn this country into a Secular, Socialist utopia.
Here’s a few popes’ opinions on Socialism …**
***“The socialists wrongly assume the right of property to be of mere human invention . . . and, preaching up the community of goods, declare that … all may with impunity seize upon the possessions and usurp the rights of the wealthy. More wise and profitably, the Church recognizes the existence of inequality amongst men.”
—Leo XIII, Dec. 28, 1878
“No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true socialist.”
—Pius XI, May 15, 1931***
***“My child, you must not have fear at speaking the truth. It is for the salvation of souls and the recovery of your country. America the beautiful must not fall to communism, My child. America the beautiful shall not be sold into slavery. Cast out the money changers in your government! What manner of government is there that condones sin? Abomination upon abomination–giving monies for the murder of children, giving monies for the murder of the elderly! Your government, My child, has been infiltrated by men of sin.” - Our Lady of the Roses, September 13, 1975
-Pope John Paul II***
I’d like to see verification of this, but it may well be true.
One of the reasons government is larger (certainly not the only one) is that Christians have spent 2000 years teaching the importance of care for the poor and concern for the common good.
I share some of your skepticism about government, especially on a large scale. I am entirely in favor of the principle of subsidiarity. I rather like Ron Paul, though I worry about his failure to uphold the concept of the common good. What I worry about most are the pseudo-libertarians who want “small government” when it comes to helping the poor but are all in favor of crony capitalism and a huge military-industrial complex.
"During the time of Julius Caesar a 1 percent sales tax was imposed. During the time of Caesar Augustus the sales tax was 4 percent for slaves and 1 percent for everything else.1"
taxworld.org/History/TaxHistory.htm
The government does not have the luxury of only dealing with folks who can pay.
Which I would rather go to is not the issue. The question is whether privatization will help or hurt the people at the “bottom of the ladder.” As a Christian, I’m obligated to think about their needs and not merely my own.
I know that libertarians argue that such people will be helped by wholesale privatization. I’m not convinced.
Edwin
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