To Atheists

[Tlaloc]

kliner:

you’ve stated that you’ve studied Catholicism and Christianity (in general), but did you know that we are supposed (by our God’s Word) to spread The Faith to the ends of the earth?

There are lots of ways to interpret that. Those that spread the faith by being good examples I have no problem with.

how could you say in that sentence what God would act like? since you’re not atheist, then i would guess that you are aware of the superiority of God.

I’m not saying what god would act like, what I’m saying is what God would NOT act like. God wouldn’t act like a human being because “He’d” be radically different. Try to imagine being aware of every place and moment in the entire universe simultaneously. You can’t. We are in part a function of our limited spatial and temporal awareness. God wouldn’t be. Actually conversing with God should be rather confusing.

examples please…

Genesis. God has an enormous issue with authority to the point that he has to set up “gotcha” games. Thats entirely too human a behavior.

conspiracy theories are not the result of faith. examples here would be helpful too. please realize that there have been/will be wolves among the sheep.

What conspiracy theory? Many church teachings are entirely in line with temporal power grabs. Tithing. No birth control. Heirarchical church structure. No personal interpretation of the bible. All are designed to invest people’s personal power into a church authority which could, and often did, wield them the same as States did.

i don’t recall hearing this one either. have you read any the Catechism of the Catholic Church for your study of Catholicism? please list another (largely believed) religion that isn’t aware of right and wrong or good vs evil.

Many religions teach that you should try to lead a just life. Many teach that there is some form of reward after life for those that manage to. The three Monotheistic faiths are the only ones I’m aware of that have God as a bouncer.

be careful that you don’t block His Help on this journey. and how could God be God without being omniscient?

Ask Thor. As for help I have no choice if there is a truly omniscient god, since he started the universe in particular way knowing full well everything I’d ever do. You can’t have an omniscient creator God and freewill. The God chooses the initial conditions and in doing so determines everything else because it knows from the beginning all the outcomes.

 

[Monarchy]

Pro-Life_Teen:

I was wondering, what are some of your beliefs if you don’t have a religion. Do you frown of church goers, or try to show them that there is no God?

I am not quite sure what you’re asking here. Is it how I think the universe came to be? Or is it something else? I can give some general answers, but if you want something more specific you’ll have to rephrase the question.

I believe that the scientific method, reason and logic are the best ways of determining if something is true or not.

As far as Church Goers, What ever floats your boat. I don’t care what you do, as long as you don’t try to shove your beliefs down my throat. I don’t try and show them that there is no God (because you can’t), but I do show them when they make mistakes about things (i.e.evolotion, etc…).

How did you decide that there was no God, or Higher Power?

Searching and not finding, basically. I have prayed for a clear sign, and recieved none. In addition, no one has yet to produce a shred of physical evidence proving God exists. Therefore, I withold judgement on the matter.

 

[kliner]

I’m not saying what god would act like, what I’m saying is what God would NOT act like. God wouldn’t act like a human being because “He’d” be radically different. Try to imagine being aware of every place and moment in the entire universe simultaneously. You can’t. We are in part a function of our limited spatial and temporal awareness. God wouldn’t be. Actually conversing with God should be rather confusing.

if you have learned of the love that we believe God has for His created beings, then maybe you would understand why He is always here for us. and even if God were to “act too human,” that wouldn’t make Him human. wouldn’t it seem necessary for us to be able to communicate with Him? God is very aware of our can’s and can’ts, so i’m sure He’d do what it takes to communicate with us.

Genesis. God has an enormous issue with authority to the point that he has to set up “gotcha” games. Thats entirely too human a behavior.

have you read (or participated) in a Bible study on Genesis? i’m not sure which areas you are talking about, but maybe a study of it could clear it up a little better. have you read past Genesis? i have/had some trouble understanding the earlier books of the Bible as well, but realize that the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old.

also, remember again the supremacy of God if you are saying that God has an “authority problem.” if He created it all, then He has the authority to be authoritative.

What conspiracy theory?

you wrote:

Furthermore there are far too many convenient cases where “god” just happens to say what a church interested in temporal power would want him to say.

which to me implies that Church leaders have made up teachings for reasons other than spreading The Truth.

Many church teachings are entirely in line with temporal power grabs. Tithing. No birth control. Heirarchical church structure. No personal interpretation of the bible. All are designed to invest people’s personal power into a church authority which could, and often did, wield them the same as States did.

tithing was around waaaay before the Catholic Church. we recognize that all that we receive is from God.

i would like for you to read why our Church teaches against birth control (again in the Catechism of the Catholic Church - here. also note that all other Christian churches used to share the same belief.

hierarchical structure? how else would you have it? anarchy? that would definitely not be in line with Scripture or Tradition.

as for personal interpretation of the Bible, see your comment on Genesis above for a good reason (imo). see also the number of protestant denominations (sola scriptura + i believe it says this, not that).

the Church is supposed to flourish, like i said before, to all nations.

Ask Thor. As for help I have no choice if there is a truly omniscient god, since he started the universe in particular way knowing full well everything I’d ever do. You can’t have an omniscient creator God and freewill. The God chooses the initial conditions and in doing so determines everything else because it knows from the beginning all the outcomes.

He knows what you have done/will do, but does not make the decisions for you. you have the ability to do this on your own. i’m sure there is a pretty large amount of work on predestination. i recommend going down the left side of the catholic.com web page and seeing if you can find anything helpful. i also recommend the archives @ ewtn.com, they have loads of information from what i remember.

God bless you.

 

[Tlaloc]

Kliner,

I don’t want to derail this thread anymore. I find fault with each of the arguments you presented but if you want to get into it more post in the “Ask Tlaloc Anything” thread.

 

[kliner]

I believe that the scientific method, reason and logic are the best ways of determining if something is true or not.

i recommend Dr. Anthony Rizzi on this subject. he has written a book, which i would guess covers this area: “The Science before Science: A Guide to Thinking in the 21st Century”.

As far as Church Goers, What ever floats your boat. I don’t care what you do, as long as you don’t try to shove your beliefs down my throat. I don’t try and show them that there is no God (because you can’t), but I do show them when they make mistakes about things (i.e.evolotion, etc…).

here is an article on this subject.

Searching and not finding, basically. I have prayed for a clear sign, and recieved none. In addition, no one has yet to produce a shred of physical evidence proving God exists. Therefore, I withold judgement on the matter.

continue prayer. this is how we communicate with God. but maybe instead of a sign, allow God to come into your heart. be relentless if thats what it takes.

i don’t think that you’re going to prove God with physical evidence. remember the semi-parallel of air: you can not see it, but you know that it is all around and even inside of you.

don’t give up.

 

[Idisto]

I have a thread about my essay explaining my reasons. I’m not looking to promote it, but it answers the question better than anything I could type up here.

 

[Monarchy]

kliner:

i don’t think that you’re going to prove God with physical evidence. remember the semi-parallel of air: you can not see it, but you know that it is all around and even inside of you.

don’t give up.

I can prove air exists, not so for God

 

[Monarchy]

kliner:

i don’t think that you’re going to prove God with physical evidence. remember the semi-parallel of air: you can not see it, but you know that it is all around and even inside of you.

don’t give up.

I can prove air exists, no so God