To be Catholic, do I have to think others are wrong? Or I'm right?

[PJM]

I was raised Catholic and try to follow the faith, but I don’t think other religions are all wrong, nor do I think that all of the Catholic teachings are the one and only right way. And for some Catholic teachings, I don’t even pretend to know what’s true, despite what the Catholic church teaches…only God can know. I do hold a Christian world-view but love God and love people, is what stands out for me

Dear Friend in Christ,

Welcome to CAF!

I’d like to comment on your opening statement

No, God is not the only one who CAN know “truth”

Forgive me for guessing, but I suspect your a “young person?” *

Just One set of Faith beliefs as even GOD cannot hold, accept or tolerate more than His ONE st of faith beliefs:

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses of these things and the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to all that obey him

Eph 4: 4-7 “One body [CHURCH] and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord,ONE FAITH [SET OF BELIEFS], one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ”

And Just one Church so that humnaity could know the source of GOD"S Truths

Mt 16:18-19
And I say to THEE: That thou art Peter; and upon[YOU PETER] this rock I will build MY CHURCH [SINGULAR], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to YOU [ALL OF THEM IMPLIED HERE] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever YOU shalt bind [MEANS HERE TEACH] upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever YOU shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven

Mt 28:19-20 "Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded [MEANS HERE BOTH TAUGHT & COMMANDED] YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.

TRUTH CAN BE NOTING OTHER THAN SINGULAR PER DEFINED ISSUE MY FRIEND.

Truth
Ps.145 Verses 17 to 18 “
[17] The LORD is just in all his ways, and kind in all his doings.
[18] The LORD is near to all who call upon him,
to all who call upon him in truth.

**Dictionary Definition of “Truth”
The true or actual state of a matter:

1. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
2. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
3. the state or character of being true.
4. actuality or actual existence.
5. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
6. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
7. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived
   experience:
8. agreement with a standard or original.
   9… accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
9. Archaic. Fidelity or constancy.
   TEN REALITIES of a single truth**

John 1 :17 “because while the law was given through Moses,** grace and truth came through Jesus Christ”**

2 Cor. 13: “8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.”

1 John 4: 4-9 “Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them. We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”

John 8: 31-32 ”Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him,** “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”**

Gal. 2: “5 to them we did not yield submission even for a moment,* that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.”**

John 14: 16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

2 Tim. 1: “13 Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; 14** guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.”**

Col. 1: 5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing–so among yourselves,** from the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth,”**

John 17: 14-19 “I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.”

*John 14: 25 "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”

GBY

Patrick*

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m sure the Cardinal would acknowledge that people who are more grounded in their faith are in less danger of falling into protestant error by worshiping with them.

The un-catechized are in serious danger and should avoid it all together, imo.

:twocents:

I think all should avoid participating in regular worship that is not Catholic. Better to use that time helping out in Catholic parishes or praying the rosary. The Cardinal doesn’t have a problem with exceptional occasions such as weddings, funerals etc. or socialising with non-Catholics, it’s the “worship” part that is discouraged.

 

[GLam8833]

I think all should avoid participating in regular worship that is not Catholic. Better to use that time helping out in Catholic parishes or praying the rosary. The Cardinal doesn’t have a problem with exceptional occasions such as weddings, funerals etc. or socialising with non-Catholics, it’s the “worship” part that is discouraged.

I just like to add that the Prefect of the Congregation for
the Doctrine on Faith of the Roman Catholic Church has
warned us NOT to attend Protestant churches on a
regular basis. That said, the devil will feed you enough
Truth to lure you away from the True Church so that
you will believe in his lies!!

 

[PJM]

I’m sure the Cardinal would acknowledge that people who are more grounded in their faith are in less danger of falling into protestant error by worshiping with them.

The un-catechized are in serious danger and should avoid it all together, imo.

:twocents:

Friend,

**Saving Grace **is correct in sharing that the RCC teaches that as the NORM, it is not a good practice to worship with non-Catholic faiths, for multiple reasons.

Special multi-faith Prayer services are OK, but attending other faith worship services has more down-sides than positive benefits. And it is an unnecessary risk.

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

I think all should avoid participating in regular worship that is not Catholic. Better to use that time helping out in Catholic parishes or praying the rosary. The Cardinal doesn’t have a problem with exceptional occasions such as weddings, funerals etc. or socialising with non-Catholics, it’s the “worship” part that is discouraged.

AMEN:thumbsup:

 

[Vico]

…The more I try to grow in my own Catholic faith, the more I feel walls are put up by other Catholics. Jesus taught us to love one another and respect all people. Why such division?..

To be Catholic, do I have to think others are wrong? Or I’m right?

The required assent of the Catholic is that the Church of Christ subsists fully in the Catholic Church. Other non-Catholic religions have elements of truth. If you ask it a Catholic must believe that non-Catholics are surely damned, then no, because we cannot know that. It is required of a Catholic to not adopt indifferentism.

 

[pacloc]

God bless Pacloc,

In your post you are dealing with three separate issues:

**1. Predestination of the elect.

1. Judgment of the elect.
2. Justification/Salvation. **

From your declaration I know you are a member of the Orthodox Church.

Unfortunately I don’t know what is the teaching of the Orthodox Church on the above issues, but I know reasonably well the teachings of the RCC on the above issues.

You do not know the normal teaching of the RCC if all this stuff you posted is what you would call the Catholic teaching. You’re entering into Heaven and your reward in Heaven are not 2 separate things like you are trying to show, the latter being merited and the former not being merited. You seem to reject Christ’s, James’, and even Paul’s clear words in the Beatitudes, the separation of the sheep and the goats, Faith without works is dead, racing to receive a crown, not yet attaining or arrived at his goal, etc. You find sentences in Paul’s writings and take them completely out of context of what the Church teaches just like 20th century self interpreters and make them say very dangerous things.

 

[Contarini]

I think all should avoid participating in regular worship that is not Catholic. Better to use that time helping out in Catholic parishes or praying the rosary. The Cardinal doesn’t have a problem with exceptional occasions such as weddings, funerals etc. or socialising with non-Catholics, it’s the “worship” part that is discouraged.

First of all, several people have said that Arinze was prefect of the CDF when he said this. He wasn’t. He was prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship.

And secondly, while of course his words carry considerable weight, they are not binding magisterial teaching. I respectfully disagree.

For me, both for personal and theological reasons, ceasing to participate in Protestant worship (and yes, I’m afraid that includes sacraments) is not an option.

I believe that all Christians should be in communion with Rome.
I also believe that all baptized, Trinitarian Christians are in a very real (though imperfect) way part of the Church already, and that their worship is pleasing to God. To refuse to participate in it is to break the bonds of charity, just as refusing to unite with Rome would be.

Both of these convictions are non-negotiable for me. I’ve taken a long time to become this certain about the matter, but that’s where I am. I am still awaiting the word on when I can talk to a priest about whether he will receive me given these convictions.

Edwin

 

[Peter_J]

First of all, several people have said that Arinze was prefect of the CDF when he said this. He wasn’t. He was prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship.

Personally, when I see anonymous claims on the internet, I make a point not to automatically assume that they are true. (If I even read them, which is a big if.) But, sadly, I think many readers do automatically assume that they are true, so thank you for settings the record straight.

 

[May1980]

I am just not comfortable thinking or telling another church member that their sacraments are not valid or they don’t have the fullness of faith simply because they are not Catholic. I don’t feel I could do that. I am a human being. Some denominations argue over how the host changes. I don’t know! The host changes, but how exactly…even when I try to understand the teaching it’s confusing.

Does that make me not a Catholic? I can try to follow the teachings and learn as much as I can. But I still, in my heart, cannot say others are wrong or I am right since some things seem unknowable. I believe Jesus died for our sins and that love was his message and we should try to follow his ways. But I am uncomfortable with thinking myself superior in faith over, say, my aunt who is Methodist, or that when she gets Communion it’s not valid. Who am I to say that? I can’t bring myself to do this. Help!

 

[Peter_J]

I am just not comfortable thinking or telling another church member that their sacraments are not valid or they don’t have the fullness of faith simply because they are not Catholic. I don’t feel I could do that. I am a human being. Some denominations argue over how the host changes. I don’t know! The host changes, but how exactly…even when I try to understand the teaching it’s confusing.

Does that make me not a Catholic? I can try to follow the teachings and learn as much as I can. But I still, in my heart, cannot say others are wrong or I am right since some things seem unknowable. I believe Jesus died for our sins and that love was his message and we should try to follow his ways. But I am uncomfortable with thinking myself superior in faith over, say, my aunt who is Methodist, or that when she gets Communion it’s not valid. Who am I to say that? I can’t bring myself to do this. Help!

Well, the RCC doesn’t say that their sacraments are not valid simply because they are not Catholic, so you can feel better on that score. (The reasons are complex and don’t apply to all non Catholics.)

But aside from that, I would suggest paying greater attention to the RCC’s actions, particularly how much she has done over the last two or three generations to build positive relations with NCs.

 

[Contarini]

I am just not comfortable thinking or telling another church member that their sacraments are not valid or they don’t have the fullness of faith simply because they are not Catholic. I don’t feel I could do that. I am a human being. Some denominations argue over how the host changes. I don’t know! The host changes, but how exactly…even when I try to understand the teaching it’s confusing.

Does that make me not a Catholic? I can try to follow the teachings and learn as much as I can. But I still, in my heart, cannot say others are wrong or I am right since some things seem unknowable. I believe Jesus died for our sins and that love was his message and we should try to follow his ways. But I am uncomfortable with thinking myself superior in faith over, say, my aunt who is Methodist, or that when she gets Communion it’s not valid. Who am I to say that? I can’t bring myself to do this. Help!

One thing to bear in mind is that most Protestants don’t believe in the Real Presence in the Catholic sense of the term. So what they claim for their Eucharists is not anything Catholics would deny (that it is a means by which they enter into spiritual union with Christ, or something along those lines–there’s a whole range of views). It’s more difficult with Lutherans and most Anglicans, who do believe in a quite substantive version of the Real Presence but whose Eucharists are not “valid” according to Catholicism. (My wife is an Episcopal priest, so this is a big issue for me personally.)

My own approach is to say that “valid” is primarily about God’s covenant to be present in a particular way. Jesus has covenantally bound himself to be present “by way of substance,” Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, when a priest in apostolic succession celebrates the Eucharist. (Note that according to Catholic teaching, this doesn’t have to be a Catholic priest. Orthodox sacraments are valid too.) This does not, to my mind, imply that I have to believe anything about how Jesus is not present for other people. I believe that God is generous and delights to give himself to us. But we have been given certain specific covenantal signs (such as apostolic succession) which enable us to say with confidence “under these circumstances Christ is present in this way.” That to me is what “validity” means. It’s not a statement about Christ’s absence from other people.

This is something I will be bringing up with the priest when I finally talk to him (hopefully in the next week or two) about being received into the Church.

Edwin

 

[Peter_J]

One thing to bear in mind is that most Protestants don’t believe in the Real Presence in the Catholic sense of the term. So what they claim for their Eucharists is not anything Catholics would deny (that it is a means by which they enter into spiritual union with Christ, or something along those lines–there’s a whole range of views). It’s more difficult with Lutherans and most Anglicans, who do believe in a quite substantive version of the Real Presence but whose Eucharists are not “valid” according to Catholicism. (My wife is an Episcopal priest, so this is a big issue for me personally.)

I don’t not want to avoid a discussion about Apostolicae curae, so let me just ask: can she trace her lineage back to an Old Catholic, or PNCC, bishop?

 

[Magdalena59]

I am just not comfortable thinking or telling another church member that their sacraments are not valid or they don’t have the fullness of faith simply because they are not Catholic. I don’t feel I could do that. I am a human being. Some denominations argue over how the host changes. I don’t know! The host changes, but how exactly…even when I try to understand the teaching it’s confusing.

Does that make me not a Catholic? I can try to follow the teachings and learn as much as I can. But I still, in my heart, cannot say others are wrong or I am right since some things seem unknowable. I believe Jesus died for our sins and that love was his message and we should try to follow his ways. But I am uncomfortable with thinking myself superior in faith over, say, my aunt who is Methodist, or that when she gets Communion it’s not valid. Who am I to say that? I can’t bring myself to do this. Help!

I understand what you are saying. I have many family and friends who are not Catholic. I myself am a Catholic revert. I am not comfortable telling them I am right and they are wrong mostly because I do not want to offend anyone or chase any one away or estrange a friend or family member, though I do pray for them, hoping that someday they would experience the True Presence. Though I have to say there have been times when I have tried to say something and it didn’t come out the way I intended and caused an offense.

As someone else said, the Catholic church doesn’t say one is right and one is wrong, just the Catholic church has the fullness of faith.

Sometimes, too, it is not what we say it is what we do. The biggest thing that impressed me and aided my return to the faith was not the Catholic I heard tell about their faith but the Catholic I saw practice the Catholic faith.

God bless and may your lent be blessed.

 

[PopePiusXIISupp]

From a Moral Theology book according to St. Thomas Aquinas
(1929) "Communication is private, when Catholic and a non-Catholic offer together the Lord’s Prayer or other similar prayer as a private devotion, not as an act of official worship. Private devotion is not die expression of a sectarian Creed, and, if there is nothing false in it and no danger of scandal or perversion [of the true Faith] from communication between Catholic and non-Catholic in such devotion, this kind of communication is not unlawful.

 

[Contarini]

From a Moral Theology book according to St. Thomas Aquinas
(1929) "Communication is private, when Catholic and a non-Catholic offer together the Lord’s Prayer or other similar prayer as a private devotion, not as an act of official worship. Private devotion is not die expression of a sectarian Creed, and, if there is nothing false in it and no danger of scandal or perversion [of the true Faith] from communication between Catholic and non-Catholic in such devotion, this kind of communication is not unlawful.

And of course, under current canon law and Church discipline, in contrast to that prevailing in 1929, public worship with Protestants is not only permitted but even (at least under some circumstances, such as mutual prayer for unity) encouraged.

Edwin

 

[rinnie]

I was raised Catholic and try to follow the faith, but I don’t think other religions are all wrong, nor do I think that all of the Catholic teachings are the one and only right way. And for some Catholic teachings, I don’t even pretend to know what’s true, despite what the Catholic church teaches…only God can know. I do hold a Christian world-view but love God and love people, is what stands out for me.

My two grandmas were women of faith, and both attended church each week. They were kind people, too. One was Methodist and one was Catholic. I don’t think either was wrong. I don’t think either had the only “right” way to worship or lead a life. They loved people, as did Jesus.

The more I try to grow in my own Catholic faith, the more I feel walls are put up by other Catholics. Jesus taught us to love one another and respect all people. Why such division? My one grandma took me to her Methodist church whenever I was in town. Grandma is dead, but when in that town I still go to service there and remember her. I remember us praying there, and I did feel closer to God. All good memories.

And I don’t feel God is telling me, “Wait, you can only go to a Catholic mass, or you’re wrong. And all those people who don’t go to a Catholic church ever their whole lives are all wrong.” I do not feel my Methodist grandma’s prayers were somehow inferior because she was in a Methodist and not Catholic church, or vice versa. And I don’t feel her church experience was any less than my other grandma.

Well lets put it this way, Jesus said unless you eat and drink the flesh of man you have no life in you. He said this IS my Body and this IS my blood. With that said did you Methodist Church agree with those words of God?

Jesus said you are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the kingdom. Does your Minister have those keys? Or does the Pope the leader of the RCC hold them?

Jesus said Apostolic succession is given by the laying of hands. Does Grams church have that?

God accepts all prayers of those not separated from him in mortal sin, and if in mortal sin they must confess to a Priest to be forgiven. Jesus made that law also.

I could go on and on…But my point is Jesus said the Catholic Church is his Church, and not to follow anyone but who he has given authority to teach and preach in his name.

He never said anyone need authority from his Apostles to pray. So of course their prayers are heard, and many answered.

But the thing here is this, his grace was given to you, to see the fullness of his truth, and you know by this grace what is the One true Church. Jesus said for those who have not been given the grace to see the truth, will not be held accountable, but those who were will be held accountable. One gram was given that grace and held on to it, and I would guess one was not.

 

[rinnie]

And of course, under current canon law and Church discipline, in contrast to that prevailing in 1929, public worship with Protestants is not only permitted but even (at least under some circumstances, such as mutual prayer for unity) encouraged.

Edwin

Correct, and it reminds me of a old saying, its better to be a good protestant, then a bad Catholic. God gives us the grace to accept what we can, and as long as we use that grace to the best of our ability we are fine.

But with that said if God give someone that grace to see the truth in the CC and we refuse to accept it then Thats a whole new game.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Well lets put it this way, Jesus said unless you eat and drink the flesh of man you have no life in you. He said this IS my Body and this IS my blood. With that said did you Methodist Church agree with those words of God?

Jesus said you are Peter and to YOU I give the keys to the kingdom. Does your Minister have those keys? Or does the Pope the leader of the RCC hold them?

Jesus said Apostolic succession is given by the laying of hands. Does Grams church have that?

God accepts all prayers of those not separated from him in mortal sin, and if in mortal sin they must confess to a Priest to be forgiven. Jesus made that law also.

I could go on and on…But my point is Jesus said the Catholic Church is his Church, and not to follow anyone but who he has given authority to teach and preach in his name.

He never said anyone need authority from his Apostles to pray. So of course their prayers are heard, and many answered.

But the thing here is this, his grace was given to you, to see the fullness of his truth, and you know by this grace what is the One true Church. Jesus said for those who have not been given the grace to see the truth, will not be held accountable, but those who were will be held accountable. One gram was given that grace and held on to it, and I would guess one was not.

Jesus also said he would turn no one away and as you fully know other Christians have differing interpretations about what Jesus meant in regards to “eat” and about the table and keys, the Church, and a whole host of things. That’s faith.

 

[Vico]

I was raised Catholic and try to follow the faith, but I don’t think other religions are all wrong, nor do I think that all of the Catholic teachings are the one and only right way. And for some Catholic teachings, I don’t even pretend to know what’s true, despite what the Catholic church teaches…only God can know. I do hold a Christian world-view but love God and love people, is what stands out for me.

My two grandmas were women of faith, and both attended church each week. They were kind people, too. One was Methodist and one was Catholic. I don’t think either was wrong. I don’t think either had the only “right” way to worship or lead a life. They loved people, as did Jesus.

The more I try to grow in my own Catholic faith, the more I feel walls are put up by other Catholics. Jesus taught us to love one another and respect all people. Why such division? My one grandma took me to her Methodist church whenever I was in town. Grandma is dead, but when in that town I still go to service there and remember her. I remember us praying there, and I did feel closer to God. All good memories.

And I don’t feel God is telling me, “Wait, you can only go to a Catholic mass, or you’re wrong. And all those people who don’t go to a Catholic church ever their whole lives are all wrong.” I do not feel my Methodist grandma’s prayers were somehow inferior because she was in a Methodist and not Catholic church, or vice versa. And I don’t feel her church experience was any less than my other grandma.

Despite? Really? That is opposite to assent.