To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[PRmerger]

Yes, I would tell my daughter that if she sees something different than other people, that’s ok, but she needs to learn how to cooperate with others.

Well, I didn’t ask you what you would say if you daughter sees something different than other people.

And you didn’t answer whether you would make your daughter who came home with an F in math learn her math facts.

What is your answer to that?

Would you let her decide for herself that she wants to say that 8 x 8 is 16?

 

[PRmerger]

OSpelling is another thing. I reserve the right to change spelling any time I want. If it’s a problem, then let me know. I can assure you that if I purposely veer from the common spelling, I have a good reason.

I know you don’t believe this, actually.

Dheis ehodmke eojgnegej eaoigja IIILjm!!!

See how that doesn’t work when I reserve the right to change spelling any time I want?

 

[Jozefo]

With that kind of a world-view, I expect you have a hard time communicating.

In order to communicate, we all have to agree on what to call things, so that we all know what we’re talking about.

I think I’ve been clear. Haven’t I been clear? It all hinges on agreement. Agreement requires consent. If someone doesn’t consent, that’s that. It doesn’t mean the group has authority to force him into agreement. That would be evil.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, the authority then is a group of people agreeing to call certain shapes by certain terms…

Sounds good, but through reason. The square doesn’t go in a round hole.

Now my question pertained to: are individuals required to submit to those terms?.

If everyone called you a horse you might want to take a look, but sure you can be a cow.

The truth being proclaimed is the one proclaimed in Genesis, where God gave man dominion over the earth, and all things in it, except other men.

Interesting how you conclude at this after the above. Just saying.

 

[PRmerger]

Math is another, similar kind of question. Remember that movie Rain Man? My dad was like that. He couldn’t explain how he did it, but he could multiply and divide numbers like the rain man did in the movie. At any rate, when living in society, people need to learn the skills it takes to cooperate with others. So if someone comes to a different solution, I think that’s fine. But if they’re going to work with numbers and other people, then they need to learn how to do that.

If by the above you mean: come to the correct answer using a** different method,** then I give that a

But I am certain that you would not let Rain Man design a bridge that your daughter drove over if he came to a **different answer **than what the laws of physics and math command.

Different method to achieve the same answer?

Different method to achieve the wrong answer?

 

[Jozefo]

Well, I didn’t ask you what you would say if you daughter sees something different than other people.

And you didn’t answer whether you would make your daughter who came home with an F in math learn her math facts.

What is your answer to that?

Would you let her decide for herself that she wants to say that 8 x 8 is 16?

I said she would need to learn how to cooperate. My job would be to teach her how to do that.

And if she wants to think 8x8 is 16, I would say fine, but don’t answer that on a test if you want a passing grade.

 

[Jozefo]

Well, I didn’t ask you what you would say if you daughter sees something different than other people.

And you didn’t answer whether you would make your daughter who came home with an F in math learn her math facts.

What is your answer to that?

Would you let her decide for herself that she wants to say that 8 x 8 is 16?

I know you don’t believe this, actually.

Dheis ehodmke eojgnegej eaoigja IIILjm!!!

See how that doesn’t work when I reserve the right to change spelling any time I want?

laughing Do what you want. But if you want me to understand, you’ll need to learn how to do that. On my part, I’ll try to meet you halfway.

 

[jmcrae]

I think I’ve been clear. Haven’t I been clear? It all hinges on agreement. Agreement requires consent. If someone doesn’t consent, that’s that. It doesn’t mean the group has authority to force him into agreement. That would be evil.

Actually, the person choosing not to consent is “suicidal” since we can’t survive without each other.

 

[PRmerger]

My response is another question: by what authority? It’s possible you said that rhetorically, but taken together with your other responses, I doubt it.

By the authority of logic and reason.

Also, we’re way off track from Christian freedom, my assertion that set this present conversation in motion. Now I’m wondering if the notion of people being endowed with a right of conscience somehow contradicts with Church teaching, especially in light of #1782 (I think it was). It seems to me that arguing against Christian freedom is very counter productive.

Again, Christian freedom is our ability to come to the correct answer. Not to come to any answer that pleases us.

Just like you wouldn’t tell Rain Man that he can design a bridge that pleases him if it defies all of the laws of physics and math.

You just wouldn’t do that. At least, not if your daughter was going to drive over that bridge.

 

[jmcrae]

I said she would need to learn how to cooperate. My job would be to teach her how to do that.

And if she wants to think 8x8 is 16, I would say fine, but don’t answer that on a test if you want a passing grade.

And don’t take a job where you need to be good at math.

 

[Jozefo]

If by the above you mean: come to the correct answer using a** different method,** then I give that a

But I am certain that you would not let Rain Man design a bridge that your daughter drove over if he came to a **different answer **than what the laws of physics and math command.

Different method to achieve the same answer?

Different method to achieve the wrong answer?

http://media.tumblr.com/c0569ea4b1d95d1133a9d9c861572681/tumblr_inline_mhf45fEQkh1qz4rgp.gif

Sure, as I’ve been saying, it’s about agreeing. And honest agreement depends on people giving honor and respect to others, not force and coercion.

 

[Jozefo]

Sounds good, but through reason. The square doesn’t go in a round hole.

If everyone called you a horse you might want to take a look, but sure you can be a cow.

Interesting how you conclude at this after the above. Just saying.

I conclude at Genesis 1:26 because I believe nearly everyone here recognizes God as a superior authority.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Sure, as I’ve been saying, it’s about agreeing. And honest agreement depends on people giving honor and respect to others, not force and coercion.

But you marginalize the Catholic position here.

The truth being proclaimed is the one proclaimed in Genesis, where God gave man dominion over the earth, and all things in it, except other men…

How’s that giving honor and respect?

 

[PRmerger]

Oh, I see. Well, the authority then is a group of people agreeing to call certain shapes by certain terms.

We’re not really talking about nomenclature here.

We’re not talking about the word circle being intrinsically attached to a shape. As if it couldn’t be called anything else.

We are talking about definitions. You do not have the right to re-define a circle as a square.

And your child’s kindergarten teacher will not be sanguine with your insistence that your daughter may say: “I believe that a circle has 4 equal sides that are at right angles to each other and you do not have any authority to tell me I can’t define a circle in that way!”

 

[Jozefo]

Actually, the person choosing not to consent is “suicidal” since we can’t survive without each other.

No, that is factually incorrect. I get your point, and agree so long as there is mutual respect in a group. But I can get along just fine without other people.

 

[Jozefo]

We’re not really talking about nomenclature here.

We’re not talking about the word circle being intrinsically attached to a shape. As if it couldn’t be called anything else.

We are talking about definitions. You do not have the right to re-define a circle as a square.

And your child’s kindergarten teacher will not be sanguine with your insistence that your daughter may say: “I believe that a circle has 4 equal sides that are at right angles to each other and you do not have any authority to tell me I can’t define a circle in that way!”

But that’s what I’m talking about. When working in groups, good communication is essential. But even more important - to me - is that people treat each ither with respect. Remember, this all goes back to Christian freedom, and for some reason people are avoiding it. I’m pointing out that every person has a right - God given authority - to withold consent from interacting with groups.

And FYI, my kids’ teachers and I have reached an understanding: don’t cross me, and we’ll get along just fine.

 

[PRmerger]

And if she wants to think 8x8 is 16, I would say fine, but don’t answer that on a test if you want a passing grade.

I hope your daughter never becomes my children’s pediatrician, or teacher, or pharmacist, or nurse, or cartographer, or pilot, or designs any elevators that my children are near!

And if she wants a job as a meteorologist, air traffic controller, surveyor, nuclear physicist, rocket scientist, microbiologist…she will be fired the moment she has to come up with any answer that is correct.

 

[GaryTaylor]

But that’s what I’m talking about. When working in groups, good communication is essential. But even more important - to me - is that people treat each ither with respect. Remember, this all goes back to Christian freedom, and for some reason people are avoiding it. I’m pointing out that every person has a right - God given authority - to withold consent from interacting with groups.

And FYI, my kids’ teachers and I have reached an understanding: don’t cross me, and we’ll get along just fine.

Long as the 8+8=16 equation doesn’t come into play, your good.

 

[Jozefo]

I hope your daughter never becomes my children’s pediatrician, or teacher, or pharmacist, or nurse, or cartographer, or pilot, or designs any elevators that my children are near!

And if she wants a job as a meteorologist, air traffic controller, surveyor, nuclear physicist, rocket scientist, microbiologist…she will be fired the moment she has to come up with any answer that is correct.

I’m inclined to say I hope she never has you for a patient or customer, but I won’t say that. My daughter has more going on upstairs than most people. She’s very bright. Brilliant even. You should wish my daughter could serve you. You’d eat those words.

 

[PRmerger]

But if you want me to understand, you’ll need to learn how to do that.

Egg-zactly! So freedom is freedom to do the right thing. Freedom to follow what’s right. Freedom to follow the rules.

Otherwise, if you really, truly believe that you reserve the right to see things apart from the truth of how they are, then,

dafjkdag;ioet g ag oig hfblkjar rg ;ahoirg iijmkal;oiaerjbmkf~!!!