To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[MaryT777]

I honestly tried to understand what you’re getting at, but I didn’t. I simply don’t understand your sentence. All I understand is that you have something against Buddhism. And just because I have Buddhist leanings doesn’t make me Buddhist. :doh2:

I’m just saying that we as Christians need to focus our attention to our world’s poor and sick, kind of like what Jesus did. I’ve always thought that instead of squabbling over different dogma and alienating our fellow Christians (and other religions), we could take that energy and do something so amazing, like giving every child a home or making sure not a single person goes to bed hungry. I feel like that’s what Jesus would want from us—to build homes, to feed the hungry, to help the sick!

Don’t you agree? We could do something so incredibly amazing!

“Spread the love of God through your life but only use words when necessary.” - Mother Teresa

Yes, I understand your point. Many Criticize Christianity for all of the squabbles between us .
That would be amazing. Count me in
Mary.

 

[RandomRhino]

Exactly! Instead of people saying “You can count me out on that!” because it’s related to Buddhism, or saying “You can count me out on that!” because it’s related to Islam, we should say, “I understand you want to work for the greater good! You can count me IN on that!”

If someone were to walk up to a non-Christian person and say, “Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Because if you don’t, you’ll go to hell for all eternity!” no one will ever want anything to do with Christianity.

I worry that by criticizing other religions so heavily, constantly pushing the idea that they’re wrong and we’re right, shoving the Catholicism-is-the-only-true-form-of-Christianity idea down everyone’s throats, we’ve actually ostracized people who could either become Catholic or be willing to work with us to do great things like Mother Teresa did.

(I also know that other Christian groups ostracize, as well as other religions, but the fact of the matter is that we’re Catholic and the only ones who can change Catholic behavior are well… Catholics.)

Now there are religions like the Bahá’ís who proudly proclaim they don’t have any divisions. Then we have Christianity sitting here with so many divisions you can’t even count. I always pray for a united Christianity one day… and eventually a united world religion where everyone is respected.

Even if we can’t lead a massive coalition like I’ve always dreamed of, we can do our part with extensive volunteering and doing little by little what we envision. Because if every Catholic did that, it would add up and be literally the best thing to happen to Earth (aside from Nutella).

 

[ufamtobie]

I honestly tried to understand what you’re getting at, but I didn’t. I simply don’t understand your sentence. All I understand is that you have something against Buddhism. And just because I have Buddhist leanings doesn’t make me Buddhist. :doh2:

I’m just saying that we as Christians need to focus our attention to our world’s poor and sick, kind of like what Jesus did. I’ve always thought that instead of squabbling over different dogma and alienating our fellow Christians (and other religions), we could take that energy and do something so amazing, like giving every child a home or making sure not a single person goes to bed hungry. I feel like that’s what Jesus would want from us—to build homes, to feed the hungry, to help the sick!

Rhino, When one comes to know Jesus Christ and Follow Him does one really need to have a “heavy Learning in Buddhism”? Which Teachings do you prefer Catholicism or Buddhism?

Rhino, you don’t know me, you don’t know if I do all of the above or not.

Rhino, Tell me do you believe that the Eucahrist in the Catholic Church is the Same as the Eucharist in the Lutheran Church?

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

Exactly! Instead of people saying "You can count me out on that!

" because it’s related to Buddhism, or saying “You can count me out on that!” because it’s related to Islam, we should say, “I understand you want to work for the greater good! You can count me IN on that!”

If someone were to walk up to a non-Christian person and say, “Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Because if you don’t, you’ll go to hell for all eternity!” no one will ever want anything to do with Christianity.

I worry that by criticizing other religions so heavily, constantly pushing the idea that they’re wrong and we’re right, shoving the Catholicism-is-the-only-true-form-of-Christianity idea down everyone’s throats, we’ve actually ostracized people who could either become Catholic or be willing to work with us to do great things like Mother Teresa did.

(I also know that other Christian groups ostracize, as well as other religions, but the fact of the matter is that we’re Catholic and the only ones who can change Catholic behavior are well… Catholics.)

Now there are religions like the Bahá’ís who proudly proclaim they don’t have any divisions. Then we have Christianity sitting here with so many divisions you can’t even count. I always pray for a united Christianity one day… and eventually a united world religion where everyone is respected.

Even if we can’t lead a massive coalition like I’ve always dreamed of, we can do our part with extensive volunteering and doing little by little what we envision. Because if every Catholic did that, it would add up and be literally the best thing to happen to Earth (aside from Nutella).

Rhino,

I will say it again, you can count me out! I don’t need any Heavy learning or what have you regarding Buddhism, Islamism, Bahai’s or any other Cult. However, the greater good is to pray for them, that I do! I pray for them to convert to Catholicism, YES, Catholicism!

So which are you a Catholic or Buddhist? Because the two don’t go hand in hand no matter how lovely you may put it.

Ufam Tobie

 

[RandomRhino]

Rhino, When one comes to know Jesus Christ and Follow Him does one really need to have a “heavy Learning in Buddhism”? Which Teachings do you prefer Catholicism or Buddhism?

Rhino, you don’t know me, you don’t know if I do all of the above or not.

Rhino, Tell me do you believe that the Eucahrist in the Catholic Church is the Same as the Eucharist in the Lutheran Church?

Ufam Tobie

1. I was heavily influenced by Buddhist thought and philosophy, partly from an upbringing in a Buddhist country and a dad who heavily studied Buddhism (as well as other things to do with Asia) in his college.

You must find it really weird that I can have external influences. And frankly, I don’t think Jesus really cares if I was influenced by a philosophy that shapes my worldview as long as I still love him and pray.

I believe this life is filled with suffering. I believe that suffering is caused by craving—mostly material things and worldly power. I believe suffering can be overcome. I believe that suffering can be overcome by giving instead of receiving. I believe wisdom should be developed with compassion, and compassion includes sympathy, caring, concern, and readiness to give.

I don’t believe Catholicism is the only way to God. As put by Stephen Duffy of Loyola University in 1994, “Jesus is the perfect expression of the Father, but not the only expression of the Father.” Therefore, to answer the thread title, I believe you can be nearly any religion and go to heaven, what matters is what you do with your life.

Buddhism is not so much a religion as it is a philosophy. You can take from Buddhism whatever you want and apply it to your personal religious beliefs. You may even find you agree with some Buddhist thoughts. I don’t believe in reincarnation or the fullness of karma. I believe that our consequences have actions, but I don’t believe karma is the reason we’re born into different circumstances.

2. I don’t know you. I never said you don’t do all of the above, and I hope you do all of the above, because that’s what it means to be Catholic—to give of yourself as much as you can.

Instead, I’m saying you must be careful about whether you’re ostracizing Lutherans by implying they aren’t as good as Catholics who may be able to help us change this world.

3. I believe the debate about who’s Eucharist is real is irrelevant, since no one will join Catholicism or leave Lutheranism or become allied with either church simply because their Eucharist is valid or not.

I believe God is beyond the sacraments. If he wants that Eucharist to be his Body and Blood, he’ll make that happen. Simply because he’s God! My personal belief based on my Catholic upbringing is that it’s probably not valid, since only Catholicism and Orthodoxy have truly valid Eucharists beyond a doubt. But it’s possible for God to make that Eucharist valid, but we would have no idea if he were to do that.

 

[PRmerger]

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since God will judge us by what we do on this Earth.

We are commanded to love God with our entire MIND, RandomRhino.

Part of that is understanding doctrines/dogmas. If you can’t understand that, then you can’t love Him.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

But truth matters.

You certainly wouldn’t encourage your adult son to persist in believing in Santa Claus, even if it made him happy and good to believe that a jolly fat guy in a red suit delivers Christmas presents to his house, right?

(Do you have a son? If so, I will change this example to “daughter” so as to let you know this is a hypothetical only. )

 

[clem456]

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since **God will judge us **by what we do on this Earth.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

Do you believe those things to be true?
Is talking about what is true a petty squabble?
I am not accusing you of petty squabbling, I am just asking whether you hold to these statements as true, and whether you think those things you believe are worth debating. I assume you think they are, or you wouldn’t be here talking about them?

When do you think a discussion about truth crosses the line into petty squabbling?

 

[SteveVH]

I honestly tried to understand what you’re getting at, but I didn’t. I simply don’t understand your sentence. All I understand is that you have something against Buddhism. And just because I have Buddhist leanings doesn’t make me Buddhist. :doh2:

I’m just saying that we as Christians need to focus our attention to our world’s poor and sick, kind of like what Jesus did. I’ve always thought that instead of squabbling over different dogma and alienating our fellow Christians (and other religions), we could take that energy and do something so amazing, like giving every child a home or making sure not a single person goes to bed hungry. I feel like that’s what Jesus would want from us—to build homes, to feed the hungry, to help the sick!

Don’t you agree? We could do something so incredibly amazing!

“Spread the love of God through your life but only use words when necessary.” - Mother Teresa

The Catholic Church already leads the world in providing for the hungry, the thirsty, the naked and the homeless. This is an extremely important part of the Catholic faith. But it is not the only part of the Catholic faith that matters. We bring Christ to the world both in word and deed. So it is not an either/or situation. We must do both.

 

[ffg]

I understand the Catholic point in that we have Church Militant and Church Triumphant. Thus the Church created is bigger than what we can see and extends what was provided on earth to Heaven. It also shows the importance of Church on earth, when it is understood to be something important to God and included in Heaven.

Also, in that those in heaven would be of like minds with regard to worship since they would be in the know, thus one could conclude fairly that those in heaven are of 1 religion (as defined by earthlings).

However, we know the Catholic Church was created on earth for those on earth, the new covenant with / from God to his creation made in his image.

We also know Catholics on earth aren’t guaranteed heaven. To whom much is given, much is expected.

Also, one doesn’t have to be Catholic on earth to go to heaven.

Circumstances surrounding God’s chosen are above my pay grade, but we do get some guides through the CC to go by that no human has changed in 2000+ years, which keeps hope and confidence alive through the changing trends that are human developed.

 

[All_hail_Mithra]

But Catholics turn away from Mithra. Mithra is needed for salvation, so Catholics cannot go to heaven.

 

[ffg]

But Catholics turn away from Mithra. Mithra is needed for salvation, so Catholics cannot go to heaven.

The key is faith and reason.

Once somebody finds (or the Roman empire presents) Jesus’ body then we’ll all be searching again.

What of Mithra gives you hope and confidence today that you found truth?

Edit, looks like the post I was responding to was deleted. Ah well.

 

[SteveVH]

The key is faith and reason.

Once somebody finds (or the Roman empire presents) Jesus’ body then we’ll all be searching again.

What of Mithra gives you hope and confidence today that you found truth?

Edit, looks like the post I was responding to was deleted. Ah well.

Yes, I was a second too late. I find it fascinating that we must believe in Mithra, the “protector of cattle, guardian of the waters” in order to be saved. Amazing.

 

[jmcrae]

Shouldn’t we all be standing together and doing good together instead of saying Catholic Eucharists are way better than Lutheran Eucharists? Especially since God will judge us by what we do on this Earth.

I’m fairly positive that God will let all around good people into heaven, so encouraging people to do good and actually doing good with them probably isn’t a bad idea. At the very least, it’s more productive than having petty squabbles about this kind of stuff.

If what it takes to go to Heaven is to “be good” then we are all in deep trouble.

Who here has never sinned? If you have sinned, then you are a sinner. If you are a sinner, then you are not “good” - you need the Sacraments - which means that you need the Catholic Church, and you need Jesus, who gives us the Church and the Sacraments by means of His blood shed on the Cross for our sins.

 

[buffalo]

Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.

1. Jesus only has one body.
2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
3. The body of Christ is the Church.
4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
   Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.

I anticipate some possible objection to 1 and much rejection to 4, but let’s see how it unfolds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts for and against.

Indeed - I have posted this many times:

If one finds themselves in heaven they will be Catholic and it will have come through the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church Jesus founded for that very reason.

 

[Doxiemom]

Nope.

 

[ufamtobie]

1. Randomrhino, God is a jealous God, so yes, Jesus does care if you were influenced by Buddha, Which teacher do you prefer and love more Buddha or Jesus Christ? Exodus 20: 5,6, “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Buddhism is a religion!

Yes Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism and this comes from God the Father of Jesus Christ and not by men.

Suffering comes from sin not only by “craving—mostly material things and worldly power” as you say, but also breaking the Sacraments, not obeying the Ten Commandments, such as “You shall have no other gods before me.

Suffering can not be overcome in this world but in the next. 2 Timothy 2:33 Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. Or Matt 10:3434 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household.

Catholicism is the Church Jesus Christ established, many don’t know this truth and they out of ignorance may be saved, but to those who know the teachings of the Catholic Church and then choose to reject it, is rejecting Jesus Christ and if you reject Jesus Christ and His One Church then how can one be saved, if they die in this state of mortal sin.

Rhino, You may not believe in reincarnation or the fulness of karma but yet many people fall into that trap of Buddhism, therefore in Jesus eyes Buddhism is wrong, how so? Well, Even Satan, may appear looking like an angle of the light, with half truth, but inwardly he is a snake and will bite you and his venom will kill you.

1. I am not “ostracizing Lutherans” I am telling them the Truth!

Rhino, do not put your words in my mouth, I have never implied that Lutherans aren’t good as Catholic. I tell them the truth that there Church is a man made church like your buddha and for them to come home, would Jesu Christ condemn me for this, No!

1. Rhino, you say the Eucharist is irrelevant, Wrong again! Many Protestants have left their Protestant church, to come back HOME to partake of the Eucharist of the Catholic Church, for they have come to know the Truth, so don’t say that the Eucharist is irrelevant.

Rhino, God can do all things for nothing is impossible to Him… God is above the sacraments, the ten commandments, etc… but are we allowed to break any of the ten Commandments without being punished? NO! It takes consecrated hands of a Priest, Bishop, Pope for the bread and wine to become the Body and Blood of Christ the Eucharist! You know this to be a fact and yet you don’t tell the protestants the truth, shame on you! Listen to what Ignatius of Antioch preached and I think you should do the same:St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Philadephians, 4:1, 110 A.D.:
Be ye careful therefore to observe one eucharist (for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup unto union in His blood; there is one altar, as there is one bishop, together with the presbytery and the deacons my fellow-servants), that whatsoever ye do, ye may do it after God.

 

[rinnie]

Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.

1. Jesus only has one body.
2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
3. The body of Christ is the Church.
4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
   Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.

I anticipate some possible objection to 1 and much rejection to 4, but let’s see how it unfolds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts for and against.

I agree with that. Because what does it mean to be Catholic. To be Catholic means in union with the Catholic Church.

Christ says he and the Church are one. The Church is one holy catholic and apostolic.

In order to be united to Christ and his Church you must be united to his body which as he claims is the Church.

He said the Church is the same here on earth as it is in heaven. So no matter what faith you choose to follow in this world when you are united to Christ and his body in heaven you are part of him which is the CC.

 

[rinnie]

Jon-

Thanks for your response. I was actually expecting to have to get into whether formal membership is required, etc., but no one has addressed that yet.

As for the name of the Church that Jesus established beginning with Peter, the rock, that seems a little easier for me to prove from the ECF’s.

You’ve seen the quotes before no doubt…

Now formal membership how do you mean that?

According to our Pope all Christians who are baptised into the Trinity are united to Christ and his Church.

All Church’s that proclaim the good news of Christ are united to him by their truth they teach. But they do not have the fullness of the truth as in the RCC.

So anotherwards any one who is baptised in the Trinity are indeed united to Christ in his Catholic Church.

So could it be said a Christian baptised in the name of the Trinity is Catholic. I would say yes.

 

[rinnie]

Nope.

So then you are saying a person can not accept Christ and still be in heaven?

 

[PRmerger]

So then you are saying a person can not accept Christ and still be in heaven?

While I don’t want to put words into Doxie’s mouth, I think that the position that some Bible Christians have is this: no one is saved unless he professes Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

I find this position curious, though, because these Bible Christians are doing the very same thing that they object about the Catholic Church–they are saying that some people are excluded based on what they believe…yet they also tell Catholics, “How dare you exclude people based on what they believe!”

I don’t understand.

Saying to be in heaven you must be Catholic is just really an extension of their own profession of faith which says that to be in heaven you must be Christian.

So what’s the matter with the paradigm that Catholics say?