To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

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Billy_Buescher said:
He forgot one item that I can think of:

(Eph 4:4) There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—

(Eph 4:5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

(Eph 4:6) one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
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One Lord. One faith. One baptism. One flock. One Shepherd.
 
PRmerger said:
Incidentally, if Christ was still alive and instructing John to write letters as a bishop to the 7 churches in Asia, how is it that John, in his dream, saw Him before the Eternal Throne in heaven?

Doesn’t this indicate that Christ had already died, resurrected and ascended when St. John wrote Revelation?
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Jesus came down from Heaven and spoke to John. I recommend you to read that whole section for yourself to see what’s happening there. 🙂
 
TheBurningBush said:
Why I ask myself, am I considering joining the Roman Church, when it is very evident that bitterness is just as prevalent in the “perfect” church as it is in any other? One day we will all give an account for every nasty, venomous, divisive and offensive word we have ever uttered. It is the mission in my lowly Presbyterian opinion, that a good Catholic should work for the edification of the Church. Your post is unworthy of the Magisterium. 😦
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Most definitely know that those opposing ecumenical joint declarations are vocal CAF. The harsh language takes a while to get used to and incompatible with what is being taught in Catholic seminaries.

Cup half full or half empty.

Much has been accomplished in Catholic - Lutheran dialogue/JDDJ. Francis looks as welcoming as blessed Benedict XVI‎.
 
Another thing too on tone or harshness.

I haven’t yet met a person that wasn’t a sinner.

After it gets easier to see past tone to understand the comment, that’s when the fruitful conversations start.

It’s very important to remember brains are not on the same page here.

When we don’t know each other and are discussing differing views that’s two strikes already anyway, might as well avoid a third based off dislike of a quick comment ( or delivery ) on a web page.
 
I’m sorry but I could not read all of the replies. I’m disabled and reading to much messes me up.
So if this was already said, i’m sorry for repeating it.
I myself looked for a thread on this very subject, because my wife is Jewish(I continue to pray that she will convert) Because she has no real faith. She calls herself Jewish but doesn’t even know what they teach. She is stubborn, well she is a strong woman, which is one of the reasons I was attracted to her in the beginning. But that strength can also be a problem. Please pray for her to be touched by Jesus, thanks.

Now back to the question…this is my humble opinion and it may have come from God I don’t know. When i pray I will get ideas in my head, which i consider from God. No I have not heard him talk to me, if that happened I would be headed to the funny farm:)

Jesus said to the thief on the cross…“today you will be with me in Paradise” That I find to be awesome. Because Jesus didn’t ask if he was baptized? or what his beliefs were.Or what good deeds he had done in his life. Just because the thief repented and said he deserved the punishment, but that Jesus didn’t.

Jesus I think was showing us his infinite mercy! “Today you will be with me in Paradise”
Wow to me that just shows how much Jesus loves us. A few true heartfelt words from a condemned man. and he is going straight to heaven!

Everything Jesus did had a purpose and meant something for us to learn. So what do you learn from this? I know I learned to be honest and keep my heart and eyes on Jesus and maybe when my last moments on earth come “Jesus might show up and say today you will be with me in Paradise”

P.S. Everything I just wrote just came to me as I was typing. When this happens I truly believe someone is speaking thru me. I didn’t think of any of this, it just flowed from my heart to the keyboard.
Jesus is Awesome:)
 
rinnie said:
Well see you have to know the teaching of Christ and his Church in the Catholic faith. Then you would be just fine with it.

See Christ says he and his Church are one. The Church is not a human institution, it is a work of God an instrument and Sacrament of his commitment with her.

You know how the bible says Christ himself is the bridegroom. Like a marriage.

That is how Christ is joined to the Church it is a flesh union between Christ and the Church.

So we see Christ and the Church as one as Christ teaches us.

So if we were to say there is no salvation outside of Christ it would be the same as saying there is no salvation outside of the CC.

Christ=Catholic Church.😃
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So are you saying that unless I become a Catholic, rather than an Anglican, I will not be able to enter heaven? I find it hard to believe that God would differentiate between anyone who loved him, believed in him and worshipped his name. Of course we differentiate here on Earth, but God sees us as all the same. I would add that Anglicans see themselves as both Reformed/Protestant and Catholic, anyway. The Church of England considers itself part of the one holy Catholic church.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
So are you saying that unless I become a Catholic, rather than an Anglican, I will not be able to enter heaven?.
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The teaching of the CC is that she has the fullness of truth and just as an atheist may enter heaven, it’s certainly harder for him as he rejects so much of the Truth.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
So are you saying that unless I become a Catholic, rather than an Anglican, I will not be able to enter heaven? I find it hard to believe that God would differentiate between anyone who loved him, believed in him and worshipped his name. Of course we differentiate here on Earth, but God sees us as all the same. I would add that Anglicans see themselves as both Reformed/Protestant and Catholic, anyway. The Church of England considers itself part of the one holy Catholic church.
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God can do anything, of course, but it is harder for non-Catholics because they don’t have access to valid Sacraments. Not by their own fault, but still, it is much easier for Catholics, because this is the Church established by Christ. Outside the Church you can still love God, but within the Church you have the ability to honour Him by becoming the person He created you to be, and gain the full power of the spiritual life that He intends for us to have in the Sacraments. People outside the Church struggle their whole lives to learn the things that the Church gives to infants in the Penny Catechism.

Catholics need to treasure these gifts more and not take them for granted, and we need to share them with non-Catholics and help them become Catholic. Not so much because we think they’re going to Hell but because they make this life so much richer and more full of wonder, and makes our human suffering easier to bear.
 
TheKingdomOfGod said:
So are you saying that unless I become a Catholic, rather than an Anglican, I will not be able to enter heaven? I find it hard to believe that God would differentiate between anyone who loved him, believed in him and worshipped his name. Of course we differentiate here on Earth, but God sees us as all the same. I would add that Anglicans see themselves as both Reformed/Protestant and Catholic, anyway. The Church of England considers itself part of the one holy Catholic church.
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ThekingdomofGod,

Have you not read (Matt 7: 21-23) 21Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

All Protestant churches was never to be it is a man made church, if this is not iniquity what is?

Don’t get me wrong I am not saying protestants will not be saved if they are it is because they are ignorant of the Catholic Church teachings, but those who know the Catholic Churches teachings re: salvation comes by the Catholic Church and then “Frankly Rejects it” now that is a different sad story.

(2 Peter 2:21) 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them.

Jesus Christ wants for us is to be IN His Church He established over 2000 years ago, not a part of!

You say the Church of England considers itself to be part of the One Holy Catholic Church… Really? How so they don’t follow even the Pope. Jesus Christ did not establish Parts, He established One Church and it is the Roman Catholic Church.

Ufam Tobie
 
Randy_Carson said:
  1. Jesus only has one body.
  2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
  3. The body of Christ is the Church.
  4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
    Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.
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  1. agree
  2. agree
  3. agree
  4. strongly disagree – but I expect all non-Catholics would, because I would think anyone who agreed on this point would feel compelled to become Catholic. I consider the Catholic Church to be a valid part of the Christian Church, but certainly not the whole, and not the only valid part either.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.
  1. Jesus only has one body.
  2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
  3. The body of Christ is the Church.
  4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
    Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.
I anticipate some possible objection to 1 and much rejection to 4, but let’s see how it unfolds.

I look forward to reading your thoughts for and against.
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As to statements #1 - Agree but what that body consists of is a point of contention.

As to statement #2 - No where in sacred scripture does it state that membership in any earthly organization is required for salvation. And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25 – 27)

As to statement #3 - Agree however that Church is not an institution or earthly church but is in fact the universal church that consists of all believers that claim the name of Jesus Christ

As to statement #4 - While that is a claim of some churches there is no evidence of this in sacred scripture. The name of this church is “catholic” in its pure form; the universal church that exists in all churches that claim the name of Jesus and strive to the best of their ability to follow him. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. (Matthew 18:20)
 
Izdaari said:
  1. agree
  2. agree
  3. agree
  4. strongly disagree – but I expect all non-Catholics would, because I would think anyone who agreed on this point would feel compelled to become Catholic. I consider the Catholic Church to be a valid part of the Christian Church, but certainly not the whole, and not the only valid part either.
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I believe in Jesus. I believe that he suffered and died for me. I believe he is the second Person of the Trinity. I believe that salvation is only in Christ.

Now, I am going to start my own Church because I believe that God has given me special insights. In my church it matters not if one attends Sunday services because what is important is my personal relationship with Jesus. I also will be handing out finger foods and champagne for communion because it is only a symbol and we might as well enjoy ourselves. As far as marriage is concerned, we just care if people love each other, after all, that is what really matters, right? Oh, and we will not be concerned about abortion because we believe that all the aborted babies will go to heaven anyway so what’s the big deal?

When I start this new church will I be a valid part of the Christian Church?
 
believerdoc said:
As to statements #1 - Agree but what that body consists of is a point of contention.

As to statement #2 - No where in sacred scripture does it state that membership in any earthly organization is required for salvation. And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25 – 27)

As to statement #3 - Agree however that Church is not an institution or earthly church but is in fact the universal church that consists of all believers that claim the name of Jesus Christ

As to statement #4 - While that is a claim of some churches there is no evidence of this in sacred scripture. The name of this church is “catholic” in its pure form; the universal church that exists in all churches that claim the name of Jesus and strive to the best of their ability to follow him. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. (Matthew 18:20)
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But what does this church believe? How do we know what it is that God reveals without the Catholic Church?
 
Izdaari said:
  1. agree
  2. agree
  3. agree
  4. strongly disagree – but I expect all non-Catholics would, because I would think anyone who agreed on this point would feel compelled to become Catholic. I consider the Catholic Church to be a valid part of the Christian Church, but certainly not the whole, and not the only valid part either.
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Do you believe that the Council of Nicea in 325 AD was a valid Church Council? They declared and defined that there is only one holy catholic and apostolic Church, and that the heresies have no part in it.
 
jmcrae said:
Do you believe that the Council of Nicea in 325 AD was a valid Church Council? They declared and defined that there is only one holy catholic and apostolic Church, and that the heresies have no part in it.
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No opinion on the authority of the council, though I like the Nicene Creed. And at that time, I think their conclusion was correct. In 325 AD, Catholicism was the only Christian game in town. But since then the Catholic Church has gone in some pretty questionable directions. Orthodoxy and the Reformation happened much later, and both had arguably valid reasons for splitting off. I’ve been playing for the Protestant team (Anglican* via media* version). and as far as I know, I’m on the right team.
 
Izdaari said:
No opinion on the authority of the council, though I like the Nicene Creed. And at that time, I think their conclusion was correct. In 325 AD, Catholicism was the only Christian game in town. But since then the Catholic Church has gone in some pretty questionable directions. Orthodoxy and the Reformation happened much later, and both had arguably valid reasons for splitting off. I’ve been playing for the Protestant team (Anglican* via media* version). and as far as I know, I’m on the right team.
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Can you please identify some of these “questionable directions” which justify dividing Christ’s Church. And please do not bring this down to the level of pointing out corrupt clergy and laymen within the Church. We can do that with any church. Specifically, what teachings or doctrines does the Church have now that were not there in 325 AD with which you take issue?
 
SteveVH said:
Can you please identify some of these “questionable directions” which justify dividing Christ’s Church. And please do not bring this down to the level of pointing out corrupt clergy and laymen within the Church. We can do that with any church. Specifically, what teachings or doctrines does the Church have now that were not there in 325 AD with which you take issue?
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No, Steve, I don’t think so. I’ve explained what my position is and why, and I think that’s enough for now. Though I do know a little about those issues, I’m not up for a big debate about it, particularly since I’m sure they’ve all been hashed and rehashed here many times before, and I could not possibly contribute anything new. :compcoff:
 
Izdaari said:
  1. agree
  2. agree
  3. agree
  4. strongly disagree – but I expect all non-Catholics would, because I would think anyone who agreed on this point would feel compelled to become Catholic. I consider the Catholic Church to be a valid part of the Christian Church, but certainly not the whole, and not the only valid part either.
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Izdaari,

Jesus Christ did not establish “Parts” He established a Church. In order for one to considered themselves a part of this One Church Jesus Christ established over 2000 years ago, you have to be a member of this One Church from within this One Church.

All should be compelled to be a Catholic, here is why 1. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ. 2. The Promise that the Gates of hell will not prevail over it.

The Protestantism is a slap on Jesus Christ face. Even the name Protestant has an ugly meaning, it means protest / protesting, protesting against who, for crying out loud, Islam, hinduism, No! It means Protesting against the Only Church Jesus Christ established, the Catholic Church.

Protestantism, tells the world that the First Church that Jesus Christ established is wrong. It is telling the world that the gates of hell did prevail over it after all, and we need to protest and start a new church.

Many Protestants are innocent / ignorant of this Truth, but when one comes to know this Truth and then Rejects it, may God have mercy on their souls.

Ufam Tobie
 
believerdoc said:
As to statements #1 - Agree but what that body consists of is a point of contention.

As to statement #2 - No where in sacred scripture does it state that membership in any earthly organization is required for salvation. And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25 – 27)

As to statement #3 - Agree however that Church is not an institution or earthly church but is in fact the universal church that consists of all believers that claim the name of Jesus Christ

As to statement #4 - While that is a claim of some churches there is no evidence of this in sacred scripture. The name of this church is “catholic” in its pure form; the universal church that exists in all churches that claim the name of Jesus and strive to the best of their ability to follow him. "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. (Matthew 18:20)
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BelieverDoc,

Believe this, Matt 18: 15-17 15But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church.** And if he will not hear the church**, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

BelieverDoc, Jesus Christ did not say take it to Sacred Scripture, Jesus Christ said “Tell The Church”. Scripture is good but it is the Church that has the last say because it is the Church guided by the Power of the Holy Spirit who will be with us until the end that guides us, not scripture. Sacred Scripture can only be interpreted by the Catholic Church, why because it was the Holy Spirit who guided the early Church Fathers to write it who by the way, were and are Catholic.

BelieverDoc, if you don’t listen to the Church, then you shall be treated as the lord said: as a heathen and publican, these are not my words to you but the Lords words.

Jesus Christ established one Church which our Lord tell us to hear and obey.

You can not find it all in Sacred Scripture, the Lords work continues to this very day and it is through His Holy Catholic Church that Our Lord still speaks to us. Amen

For the Lord did not say on this rock I will build my bible…No not at all! But Jesus, did say “On this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” The gates of hell may prevail against His people if they fall away and loose their faith in Jesus Christ and His Only Church He established but never will the gates of hell prevail over His Church He established over 2000 years ago. Amen

BelieverDoc, Matt 18: 20 is referring to the 12 Apostles and their successors not to you and and me the the man named Larry down the street. Because prior to Matt 18:20 Jesus says in Matt 18: 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. BelieverDoc, You and I and the man named Larry down the street can’t bind or loose anything in heaven or on earth only the Catholic Church has this Power to bind and loose.

Yes, if we ask, we shall receive, if we seek, we shall find, and if we knock the door shall be opened, now this is meant for us his People. Amen

Ufam Tobie
 
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