To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

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You do realize that men wrote the Bible as well. And not only that - a group of men also received the books to be included. And not only that - groups of men have been translating the Bible for thousands of years.
men inspired by the holy spirit. their are two positions I believe in sola scripture and others believe in the authority of the church all things scripture says is defined by the church and the church defines what is and what is not tradition and what tradition does and does not do. how is tradition inspired? where in the bible is this?
 
men inspired by the holy spirit. their are two positions I believe in sola scripture and others believe in the authority of the church all things scripture says is defined by the church and the church defines what is and what is not tradition and what tradition does and does not do. how is tradition inspired? where in the bible is this?
Bill-

You might be pleased (relieved?) to know that Catholics rely on Scripture and Tradition. Here are some articles:

Articles on the Relationship Between Scripture and Tradition

The Complex Relationship between Scripture and Tradition
By James Akin
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6804

THE TWO CANONS: SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION
By James Akin
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/2CANONS.htm

What Is The Relationship Between Scripture And Tradition?
By Mark P. Shea
chnetwork.org/journals/authority/authority_9.htm

Scripture And Tradition
catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

Sacred Scripture Depends on Sacred Tradition
by Stephen N. Filippo
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0003fea3.asp
 
perhaps you have a different definition of the word relationship than i have?
 
men inspired by the holy spirit. their are two positions I believe in sola scripture and others believe in the authority of the church all things scripture says is defined by the church and the church defines what is and what is not tradition and what tradition does and does not do. how is tradition inspired? where in the bible is this?
sola scripture is not a denial that gods word was not oral at one time. But now that god has revealed his holy word we should all obey the word of god. sola scripture is not a assertion of all things.🙂
 
sola scripture is not a denial that gods word was not oral at one time. But now that god has revealed his holy word we should all obey the word of god. sola scripture is not a assertion of all things.🙂
Bill-

do you remember the movie, A Few Good Men, with Tom Cruise? There’s a great scene in the courtroom that helps explain Tradition.

Tradition and A Few Good Catholic Men

Tradition is often thought to add to the content of the Gospel, and indeed, there are things that we know from Sacred Tradition that we cannot learn exclusively from Sacred Scripture. This manner of looking at Scripture and Tradition is known as the “Two Source” model, and it is one valid way of understanding the relationship between Scripture and Tradition. However, another model, called the “Two Mode” model, recognizes that Tradition is also properly understood to be another mode of transmission of the one Gospel.

I want to focus here on the Two Mode model, and I would like to offer an excerpt from the movie, A Few Good Men, which illustrates this principal very clearly:

Capt. Ross: Corporal Barnes, I hold here the Marine Corps Outline for Recruit Training. You’re familiar with this book?
Cpl. Barnes: Yes, sir.
Capt. Ross: You’ve read it?
Cpl. Barnes: Yes, sir.
Capt. Ross: Good. Would you open it up to the chapter that deals with code reds, please?
Cpl. Barnes: Sir?
Capt. Ross: Just flip open to the page of the book that talks about code reds.
Cpl. Barnes: Well, sir code red is a term that we use, I mean, just down at Gitmo, I really don’t think that…
Capt. Ross: Ah, we’re in luck then. Standard Operating Procedures, Rifle Security Company, Guantanamo Bay Cuba. Now I assume we’ll find the term code red and its definition in that book. Am I right?
Cpl. Barnes: No sir.
Capt. Ross: Coporal Barnes, I’m a Marine. Is there no book. No pamphlet or manual, no regulation or set of written orders or instructions that lets me know that, as a Marine, one of my duties is to perform code reds?
Cpl. Barnes: No sir. No book, sir.
Capt. Ross: No further questions.
[as Ross walks back to his table Kaffee takes the book out of his hand]
Kaffee: Corporal would you open this book up to the part that says that where the mess hall is.
Cpl. Barnes: Well, Lt Kaffee, that’s not in the book either, sir.
Kaffee: You mean to say the entire time you’ve been at Gitmo you’ve never had a meal?
Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. Three squares a day, sir.
Kaffee: Well, I don’t understand. How did you know where the mess hall was if it wasn’t in this book?
Cpl. Barnes: I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.
Kaffee: Thanks. No more questions.

+++

When the Apostles taught about whether infants were to be baptized, how the Lord’s supper was to be celebrated, about confession, weddings and many other things, they did not write an instruction manual. They taught by their actions and their personal example - their living witness - what we are to believe and do.

Jesus quoted scripture but never wrote a word Himself; the Apostles learned exclusively from what He said and what He did. In turn, the Apostles taught their disciples by their oral preaching and teaching, by their personal example, and by their written letters. Finally, the successors of the Apostles, the Bishops of the Catholic Church, continue to teach as Jesus and the Apostles did - from the scriptures, from their manner of life and from their oral teaching.
 
why should people ignore the fact that Jesus spent three years intensely teaching His twelve apostles all they needed to know to preserve His teachings?

why should people ignore the fact that the Church Jesus founded existed years, maybe decades before any of the new testament was written?

why should people ignore the fact that sacred scripture says that Jesus taught the apostles ideas and concepts that He did not teach the masses?

why should people ignore the fact that sacred scripture says that all the books in the world could not contain all that Jesus said and did?
 
Bill-

You might be pleased (relieved?) to know that Catholics rely on Scripture and Tradition. Here are some articles:

Articles on the Relationship Between Scripture and Tradition

The Complex Relationship between Scripture and Tradition
By James Akin
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6804

THE TWO CANONS: SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION
By James Akin
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/2CANONS.htm

What Is The Relationship Between Scripture And Tradition?
By Mark P. Shea
chnetwork.org/journals/authority/authority_9.htm

Scripture And Tradition
catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

Sacred Scripture Depends on Sacred Tradition
by Stephen N. Filippo
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0003fea3.asp
Jesus disagreed with tradition when the Jews were washing their cups. where in the bible is tradition? the bible as infallible is like this story: you get a printer and the guy tells you to read the booklet to build it and then leaves but you decide not to and you come up with this messed up printer then you take it back they then follow it and fixed it. just because they didn’t follow the booklet dos not make the booklet wrong. same thing with the bible and saying sola scripture splits up churches
 
why should people ignore the fact that Jesus spent three years intensely teaching His twelve apostles all they needed to know to preserve His teachings?

why should people ignore the fact that the Church Jesus founded existed years, maybe decades before any of the new testament was written?

why should people ignore the fact that sacred scripture says that Jesus taught the apostles ideas and concepts that He did not teach the masses?

why should people ignore the fact that sacred scripture says that all the books in the world could not contain all that Jesus said and did?
Because that would require a change of Church membership. 👍
 
Therefore, we are justified by faith. That is, we are made righteous in the eyes of God by faith as is amply demonstrated by Romans. However, that faith, if it is true, will result in deeds appropriate to salvation. After all, didn’t God say in Eph. 2:8-10, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
When I was discussing with my Pastor, he ended up saying something similar to this to which I replied, “That’s what the Catholic’s teach!”

You see, you’ve gone from denying faith+works and then accepting faith+works as you admit faith will produce works. Catholics accept that works do not save us, but neither does faith alone because faith must produce works. To not do works and yet say we have faith is not faith at all.

So congratulations, you have now accepted the Catholic position!
 
10,000. I take a moment for myself…

:dancing::extrahappy::yeah_me::clapping:
:yyeess::whackadoo::choocho:

:tiphat:
 
Bill-

do you remember the movie, A Few Good Men, with Tom Cruise? There’s a great scene in the courtroom that helps explain Tradition.

Tradition and A Few Good Catholic Men

Tradition is often thought to add to the content of the Gospel, and indeed, there are things that we know from Sacred Tradition that we cannot learn exclusively from Sacred Scripture. This manner of looking at Scripture and Tradition is known as the “Two Source” model, and it is one valid way of understanding the relationship between Scripture and Tradition. However, another model, called the “Two Mode” model, recognizes that Tradition is also properly understood to be another mode of transmission of the one Gospel.

I want to focus here on the Two Mode model, and I would like to offer an excerpt from the movie, A Few Good Men, which illustrates this principal very clearly:

Capt. Ross: Corporal Barnes, I hold here the Marine Corps Outline for Recruit Training. You’re familiar with this book?
Cpl. Barnes: Yes, sir.
Capt. Ross: You’ve read it?
Cpl. Barnes: Yes, sir.
Capt. Ross: Good. Would you open it up to the chapter that deals with code reds, please?
Cpl. Barnes: Sir?
Capt. Ross: Just flip open to the page of the book that talks about code reds.
Cpl. Barnes: Well, sir code red is a term that we use, I mean, just down at Gitmo, I really don’t think that…
Capt. Ross: Ah, we’re in luck then. Standard Operating Procedures, Rifle Security Company, Guantanamo Bay Cuba. Now I assume we’ll find the term code red and its definition in that book. Am I right?
Cpl. Barnes: No sir.
Capt. Ross: Coporal Barnes, I’m a Marine. Is there no book. No pamphlet or manual, no regulation or set of written orders or instructions that lets me know that, as a Marine, one of my duties is to perform code reds?
Cpl. Barnes: No sir. No book, sir.
Capt. Ross: No further questions.
[as Ross walks back to his table Kaffee takes the book out of his hand]
Kaffee: Corporal would you open this book up to the part that says that where the mess hall is.
Cpl. Barnes: Well, Lt Kaffee, that’s not in the book either, sir.
Kaffee: You mean to say the entire time you’ve been at Gitmo you’ve never had a meal?
Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. Three squares a day, sir.
Kaffee: Well, I don’t understand. How did you know where the mess hall was if it wasn’t in this book?
Cpl. Barnes: I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.
Kaffee: Thanks. No more questions.

+++

When the Apostles taught about whether infants were to be baptized, how the Lord’s supper was to be celebrated, about confession, weddings and many other things, they did not write an instruction manual. They taught by their actions and their personal example - their living witness - what we are to believe and do.

Jesus quoted scripture but never wrote a word Himself; the Apostles learned exclusively from what He said and what He did. In turn, the Apostles taught their disciples by their oral preaching and teaching, by their personal example, and by their written letters. Finally, the successors of the Apostles, the Bishops of the Catholic Church, continue to teach as Jesus and the Apostles did - from the scriptures, from their manner of life and from their oral teaching.
well written I am watching a debate between Tim staples and dr.james white on this same subject. also Jehovah witnesses say they have the upmost authority why not follow them? the church is not the truth but presents the truth
 
When I was discussing with my Pastor, he ended up saying something similar to this to which I replied, “That’s what the Catholic’s teach!”

You see, you’ve gone from denying faith+works and then accepting faith+works as you admit faith will produce works. Catholics accept that works do not save us, but neither does faith alone because faith must produce works. To not do works and yet say we have faith is not faith at all.

So congratulations, you have now accepted the Catholic position!
Did you even read what I posted about Faith and works. You can go back and read it, I dont deny that Christians should do works, just clearing up the fact that it essieantly has NO part whatsoever in our Salvation. And what your pastor said=What every other pastor says :confused:

P.S. Most Catholics I’ve talked with our pretty easy going and laid back, they believe Protestants are going to Heaven as well without a doubt 🙂
 
Jesus disagreed with tradition when the Jews were washing their cups. where in the bible is tradition? the bible as infallible is like this story: you get a printer and the guy tells you to read the booklet to build it and then leaves but you decide not to and you come up with this messed up printer then you take it back they then follow it and fixed it. just because they didn’t follow the booklet dos not make the booklet wrong. same thing with the bible and saying sola scripture splits up churches
Jesus condemned HUMAN tradition. But scripture is very clear that there is Tradition that we are to obey. Here is the quick proof:

Tradition Commended

Q: My Protestant friends say that their church goes by the Bible Alone, but that the Catholic Church has added a lot of man-made traditions to the Word of God…is that true?

A: No, it is not true. Protestants have as their sole rule of faith the written Word of God, which we find in Sacred Scripture. The Catholic Church has as its sole rule of faith, the entire Word of God, as it is found in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

All of the Word of God was at one time passed on orally…Sacred Tradition. Eventually, some of Sacred Tradition was written down…this became Sacred Scripture, which is written tradition. However, Scripture itself tells us that not all of the things that Jesus said and did were written down. And listen to what Paul says about “tradition”:

2 Thes 2:15, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” Traditions! Traditions taught by word of mouth, in other words, oral tradition, and traditions taught by letter. Traditions which they are being told to “stand firm and hold to”. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

1 Cor 11:2, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.” The Corinthians are being commended by Paul because they maintain the traditions that he passed on to them. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

2 Tim 2:2: “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” What we have here in 2 Timothy is an instance, in Scripture, of Paul commanding the passing on of oral tradition.

1 Thes 2:13, “And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the Word of God, which is at work in you believers.” So, they received as the Word of God that which they heard, not simply that which they read in Scripture.

In other words, the Bible clearly supports the Catholic Church’s teaching that the Word of God is contained in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

+++

The articles do explain this very nicely. That’s why I suggested that you read them. 😉
 
Did you even read what I posted about Faith and works. You can go back and read it, I dont deny that Christians should do works, just clearing up the fact that it essieantly has NO part whatsoever in our Salvation. And what your pastor said=What every other pastor says :confused:
paul wrote that we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling also:rolleyes: where is faith alone again?
 
Jesus condemned HUMAN tradition. But scripture is very clear that there is Tradition that we are to obey. Here is the quick proof:

Tradition Commended

Q: My Protestant friends say that their church goes by the Bible Alone, but that the Catholic Church has added a lot of man-made traditions to the Word of God…is that true?

A: No, it is not true. Protestants have as their sole rule of faith the written Word of God, which we find in Sacred Scripture. The Catholic Church has as its sole rule of faith, the entire Word of God, as it is found in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

All of the Word of God was at one time passed on orally…Sacred Tradition. Eventually, some of Sacred Tradition was written down…this became Sacred Scripture, which is written tradition. However, Scripture itself tells us that not all of the things that Jesus said and did were written down. And listen to what Paul says about “tradition”:

2 Thes 2:15, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” Traditions! Traditions taught by word of mouth, in other words, oral tradition, and traditions taught by letter. Traditions which they are being told to “stand firm and hold to”. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

1 Cor 11:2, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.” The Corinthians are being commended by Paul because they maintain the traditions that he passed on to them. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

2 Tim 2:2: “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” What we have here in 2 Timothy is an instance, in Scripture, of Paul commanding the passing on of oral tradition.

1 Thes 2:13, “And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the Word of God, which is at work in you believers.” So, they received as the Word of God that which they heard, not simply that which they read in Scripture.

In other words, the Bible clearly supports the Catholic Church’s teaching that the Word of God is contained in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

+++

The articles do explain this very nicely. That’s why I suggested that you read them. 😉
2 Thes 2:15 is talking about the gospels but i see your point and will think on them 👍
 
well written I am watching a debate between Tim staples and dr.james white on this same subject. also Jehovah witnesses say they have the upmost authority why not follow them? the church is not the truth but presents the truth
Do you really want to discuss the differences between the Catholic Church and the JW’s? 🤷

😛
 
.If sola Scriptura cannot be the correct method of determining truth because of the religious division among churches that claim to use sola Scriptura, then does this not also disqualify the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches method of using tradition, since they are divided against themselves?
 
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