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AnAtheist
Guest
I do not know, what’s so difficult to understanding in this:
- I am nearly 100% sure there are no gods of any kind.
- I am 100% sure there are no gods of a special kind, incl. the Christian One.
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AnAtheist
Guest
Lisa N:
There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist. There are no gods, that I regard as a fact, that makes me an atheist by definition, not by desire.
Is there anybody here, who wants or wanted to be an atheist? I really like to know.
There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist. There are no gods, that I regard as a fact, that makes me an atheist by definition, not by desire.
I hope, you understand, that that wasn’t my intention - to change your mind. I wanted to learn something about your mind.
K
Katholikos
Guest
Man has a hole in his heart that only God can fill.
The fact that ANATHEIST is here at the Catholic Answers forum tells us that he is not altogether comfortable about his atheism. He wants to hear from believers why they believe. Why should it be of any interest to him at all?
Atheists feel intellectually superior to believers. Perhaps we provide an opportunity for him to massage his feelings of superiority.
Anatheist should match his intellect against a brain like Mortimer Adler, the most influential philosopher of the 20th century, who became a Catholic at the age of 97, after resisting the logic and truth of it most of his life. Adler’s book How to Think About God (Bantam Books, 1982) answers the questions of why an understanding of nuclear physics and modern cosmology actually strengthens the argument for God, why the universe could not exist without a nurturing God, and how to bridge the gap between faith and reason.
JMJ Jay
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
The fact that ANATHEIST is here at the Catholic Answers forum tells us that he is not altogether comfortable about his atheism. He wants to hear from believers why they believe. Why should it be of any interest to him at all?
Atheists feel intellectually superior to believers. Perhaps we provide an opportunity for him to massage his feelings of superiority.
Anatheist should match his intellect against a brain like Mortimer Adler, the most influential philosopher of the 20th century, who became a Catholic at the age of 97, after resisting the logic and truth of it most of his life. Adler’s book How to Think About God (Bantam Books, 1982) answers the questions of why an understanding of nuclear physics and modern cosmology actually strengthens the argument for God, why the universe could not exist without a nurturing God, and how to bridge the gap between faith and reason.
JMJ Jay
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
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Lisa_N
Guest
Absolutely. I particularly think people in academia, in the sciences, and such brain-iac pursuits fight their innate desire to connect with God. It’s not stylish or accepted in such circles to be a believer and often any inclination is pushed back, hidden or only admitted to oneself.
Again, you regard the lack of God as a fact speaks only to what you find a compelling argument. IOW it sounds like you want some kind of empirical proof, a lightening bolt from the sky etc. Realize that there are things most of us believe are true but we’ve never seen or experienced. I see you as a ‘head’ person, like my parents, who were scientists and that they could not create God in their lab, ‘proved’ he didn’t exist to THEM.
Maybe that’s the problem. It’s not my MIND that believes so much as my heart believes.
Lisa N
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Carl
Guest
AnAtheist
*There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist. *
There are no gods, that I regard as a fact, that makes me an atheist by definition, not by desire.
Then why are you an atheist? Is it of necessity, from a stubborn loyalty to “facts” you cannot prove? I don’t think so. You might look deeper into your immortal soul to find out why you do not want immortality.
*There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist. *
There are no gods, that I regard as a fact, that makes me an atheist by definition, not by desire.
Then why are you an atheist? Is it of necessity, from a stubborn loyalty to “facts” you cannot prove? I don’t think so. You might look deeper into your immortal soul to find out why you do not want immortality.
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Carl
Guest
LISA
Absolutely. I particularly think people in academia, in the sciences, and such brain-iac pursuits fight their innate desire to connect with God. It’s not stylish or accepted in such circles to be a believer and often any inclination is pushed back, hidden or only admitted to oneself.
You are very wise here. Confirmation of your thought can be found in abundance in psychologist Paul Vitz’s fascinating book, Faith of the Fatherless, which I recommend to all atheists but which I have found very few atheists have read.
Wonder why.
Absolutely. I particularly think people in academia, in the sciences, and such brain-iac pursuits fight their innate desire to connect with God. It’s not stylish or accepted in such circles to be a believer and often any inclination is pushed back, hidden or only admitted to oneself.
You are very wise here. Confirmation of your thought can be found in abundance in psychologist Paul Vitz’s fascinating book, Faith of the Fatherless, which I recommend to all atheists but which I have found very few atheists have read.
Wonder why.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Thanks for the recommendation. I am always looking for a good book. You know I think AnAtheist wanted to ‘categorize’ former atheists to see what changed them into believers. I think we can also look in the other direction and ‘categorize’ atheists as to what turned their hearts away from God. One group I have seen is those who are angry at God, and they’re going to get revenge. I think I even saw one of these posts where the person blamed God for deaths of a loved one or some other tragedy. Another group is what I call the worshippers of knowledge or science. Huston Smith calls this scientisim, and that becomes the religion of that group. Maybe AnAtheist can give us some more categories for atheism?
Lisa N
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Carl
Guest
AnAtheist
There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist.
Here again I am puzzled by the language. It seems to me there is desire behind everything we do. We drink and eat because we want to. We work and play because we want to. We preach and fight and build and destroy because we want to.
So I find it difficult to believe that an atheist does not want to be an atheist, just as a theist wants to be a theist. There is something in it for him. What is in it for you?
Put another way:
Desire comes before discovery. Men wanted to fly before they could learn to fly. Wouldn’t you want God before you could learn to know Him? So if you don’t want Him, that would explain why you can’t know Him.
Without the want, all is hopeless.
So why does anyone want atheism?
There is absolutely no desire behind being an atheist.
Here again I am puzzled by the language. It seems to me there is desire behind everything we do. We drink and eat because we want to. We work and play because we want to. We preach and fight and build and destroy because we want to.
So I find it difficult to believe that an atheist does not want to be an atheist, just as a theist wants to be a theist. There is something in it for him. What is in it for you?
Put another way:
Desire comes before discovery. Men wanted to fly before they could learn to fly. Wouldn’t you want God before you could learn to know Him? So if you don’t want Him, that would explain why you can’t know Him.
Without the want, all is hopeless.
So why does anyone want atheism?
P
Pug
Guest
Some people want to believe, but cannot make themselves, because it seems unreasonable, especially for a man to claim he is that certain. Surely I cannot be the only Catholic who finds passages like this deeply troubling:
Look, maybe a hypothetical atheist is interested in personal integrity and not going beyond what he can say.
Given the definition settled upon in this thread, I don’t qualify, but if the definitions had been different…
Look, maybe a hypothetical atheist is interested in personal integrity and not going beyond what he can say.
D
Drew98
Guest
In my case the desire is to know the truth regardless of whether it leads to theism or atheism. For me, the evidence against and lack of evidence for the existence of God leads me to atheism. But if it led to theism that would be fine, too. In many ways my life would be easier if I were a believer.
Hmmm…what you seem to be saying is that you’re a theist because you want to be. And the truth of theism is beside the point. Do I have that right?
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Lisa_N
Guest
Not IMO. I am a believer because I have the truth. The “evidence” you seek is neither of interest to me, nor compelling. I wouldn’t be in awe of a God I could put in a neat little box or define in a few words.
You say you desire to know ‘the truth’ but it is only ‘the truth’ as YOU see it. As I’ve asked AnAtheist numerous times, tell me about that God you don’t believe in. I probably don’t believe in that god either. Often people say well they don’t believe in God because they can’t see or touch Him. Doubting Thomas is still among us. Others don’t believe in God because there is evil in the world or because their mother died when they were two years old. IOW God doesn’t do what I want Him to do. God isn’t as I want Him to be, therefore NO God exists. Sounds like a pity party where the atheist wishes to be the eternal guest of honor. A lot of it boils down to self absorbtion. It’s all about ME ME ME and ME and if’ it’s NOT about ME then to heck with God.
None of these arguments against God hold any water for me but as the saying goes, YMMV
Lisa N
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Carl
Guest
DREW
Hmmm…what you seem to be saying is that you’re a theist because you want to be.
No. I’m saying we are all what we are because we want to be. We have only to find out why we want to be what we are. I am a theist because God put that want in me and I have not rejected it. I want to do God’s will, because it pleases me and it pleases God.
Why do you not want to believe in God? There has to be a substantive reason. It can’t be that you don’t believe in God because you don’t believe in anything you can’t see with your senses. If that were so, your mental universe would be very small indeed. By definition, God is beyond our physical comprehension. Stop trying to put God in a test tube or under a microscope and you will begin to discover Him.
So there must be another reason you do not want God to exist.
What is it?
Hmmm…what you seem to be saying is that you’re a theist because you want to be.
No. I’m saying we are all what we are because we want to be. We have only to find out why we want to be what we are. I am a theist because God put that want in me and I have not rejected it. I want to do God’s will, because it pleases me and it pleases God.
Why do you not want to believe in God? There has to be a substantive reason. It can’t be that you don’t believe in God because you don’t believe in anything you can’t see with your senses. If that were so, your mental universe would be very small indeed. By definition, God is beyond our physical comprehension. Stop trying to put God in a test tube or under a microscope and you will begin to discover Him.
So there must be another reason you do not want God to exist.
What is it?
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WhatIf
Guest
How many former atheists are posting? There seems to be attacks against atheists on here. As if they willingly choose to be atheists.
This thread was started by AnAtheist, who is an atheist! That is a very good thing. I am a Catholic, but a former atheist. Try to understand that there are people out there who can not see or feel the things that Christians do. They don’t recognize the spiritual side of things. I do now, but I remember not being able to understand spiritual things at all. So, try not to accuse atheists of deliberately denying God. They are on a journey and I hope that we can help them on this journey and be sure not to place seeds of hatred if we can avoid it.
Why did I decide not to be an atheist? Plain and simple answer is an event occurred that made God’s existence the only logical answer. I’m leaving out a whole lot here. You won’t believe it anyhow because I wouldn’t have believed it as an atheist or as an agnostic. I did what the Bible says we should not do, but I suppose God knew what I needed. I asked for a sign and I got it! First I began reading the Bible, the Catholic Catechism, studied a little about the rosary and attempted to pray to God, but to my surprise, I ended up getting all the prove I needed. It suddenly became so obvious to me that God existed that it would’ve been illogical to deny His existence.
Becoming CAtholic took even longer and I am happy that I don’t have to let go of my belief in evolution and other scientific facts in order to be Catholic. The Bible is interpretted in various ways and The Church allows for evolution and other scientific evidence. We just have to know that God created everything and it was good. We don’t have to prove how it happened. Christians should not even attempt to say how it really happened because we don’t know how God did it, we just need to know that He did.
Well, I don’t want to drag this on. I am a Christian and only now can I see the darkness that I was in as an atheist. I never knew about the spiritual side of life. Once this door was opened, it was quite a ride and baptism was wonderful. I hope all atheists are open enough to recognize a sign if it is given and do not deliberately turn away at this point. I hope AnAtheist continues his search. I don’t blame him for not believing in God because he thinks he has no proof of it. AS Christians, we see proof all the time. Lets pray for him and hope that he begins to see the world differently. Maybe we will say something that will someday, maybe years from now, open his eyes to a spiritual world. Who knows. Keep on searching. God does exist. He will prove this to you if you let Him.
This thread was started by AnAtheist, who is an atheist! That is a very good thing. I am a Catholic, but a former atheist. Try to understand that there are people out there who can not see or feel the things that Christians do. They don’t recognize the spiritual side of things. I do now, but I remember not being able to understand spiritual things at all. So, try not to accuse atheists of deliberately denying God. They are on a journey and I hope that we can help them on this journey and be sure not to place seeds of hatred if we can avoid it.
Why did I decide not to be an atheist? Plain and simple answer is an event occurred that made God’s existence the only logical answer. I’m leaving out a whole lot here. You won’t believe it anyhow because I wouldn’t have believed it as an atheist or as an agnostic. I did what the Bible says we should not do, but I suppose God knew what I needed. I asked for a sign and I got it! First I began reading the Bible, the Catholic Catechism, studied a little about the rosary and attempted to pray to God, but to my surprise, I ended up getting all the prove I needed. It suddenly became so obvious to me that God existed that it would’ve been illogical to deny His existence.
Becoming CAtholic took even longer and I am happy that I don’t have to let go of my belief in evolution and other scientific facts in order to be Catholic. The Bible is interpretted in various ways and The Church allows for evolution and other scientific evidence. We just have to know that God created everything and it was good. We don’t have to prove how it happened. Christians should not even attempt to say how it really happened because we don’t know how God did it, we just need to know that He did.
Well, I don’t want to drag this on. I am a Christian and only now can I see the darkness that I was in as an atheist. I never knew about the spiritual side of life. Once this door was opened, it was quite a ride and baptism was wonderful. I hope all atheists are open enough to recognize a sign if it is given and do not deliberately turn away at this point. I hope AnAtheist continues his search. I don’t blame him for not believing in God because he thinks he has no proof of it. AS Christians, we see proof all the time. Lets pray for him and hope that he begins to see the world differently. Maybe we will say something that will someday, maybe years from now, open his eyes to a spiritual world. Who knows. Keep on searching. God does exist. He will prove this to you if you let Him.
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Carl
Guest
WhatIf
Maybe we will say something that will someday, maybe years from now, open his eyes to a spiritual world. Who knows. Keep on searching. God does exist. He will prove this to you if you let Him.
AMEN!
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This is a dialogue forum with the need to give and take. When we ask an atheist to consider his motives, we are not putting him down. We are asking him to search his soul and give an answer to the question why he is an atheist. Or why he has ceased to be an atheist.
No more and no less.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
Maybe we will say something that will someday, maybe years from now, open his eyes to a spiritual world. Who knows. Keep on searching. God does exist. He will prove this to you if you let Him.
AMEN!
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This is a dialogue forum with the need to give and take. When we ask an atheist to consider his motives, we are not putting him down. We are asking him to search his soul and give an answer to the question why he is an atheist. Or why he has ceased to be an atheist.
No more and no less.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
W
WhatIf
Guest
Oh, I thought AnAtheist may feel defensive about what seems so obvious to him. Why should he believe in God with no proof? To me, it is understandable, but if he continues to search and ask questions, there is hope for him. So, I hope we all are understanding of his comments and try to see it from his point of view, but perhaps you are saying precisely the right things. Somehow, a person has to get to the “heart of the matter” and that is when I think they will begin to see that God does exist. That comment is hard to explain because it is more of a feeling. A nagging inside that I think some people have which keeps the atheist searching. That nagging feeling - I wonder how many atheists feel it. I’m sure there is a better theological way of describing it, but to keep it simple, I’m calling it a nagging feeling, a question. Does God exist?and when the answer is No, an atheist doesn’t really settle for it. The atheist keeps searching, defending and arguing. Funny, isn’t it?
I am happy to finally be to the point that I KNOW God exists instead of the point that I didn’t THINK He existed. Knowing is a strong word that I don’t use too often, but I now KNOW that God exists and nothing would ever change my mind. I used to think that Christians just couldn’t face the possibility of no heaven etc., but now I can understand that feeling of KNOWING without doubt that God does exist - Thank God.
I am thinking that atheist have problems with talking about feelings and things that are intangible. Spirituality is something that has to be learned to some degree, don’t ya think? It develops over time. I think trying to understand love is a similar thing and an atheist that knows love will go further in his search for God in my opinion. Love is not actually seen or heard, but how many atheists know that love exists. Isn’t that some proof that there is another part of life, a spiritual side, that is hard to explain and understand, but does indeed exist?
Anyway, keep working on him and I hope he keeps bouncing things around until he finds the answers that finally brings peace to his mind.
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AnAtheist
Guest
What I want, does not change the facts.
If I want to be 20 years old again, that is never going to happen, regardless of how much desire I put into that wish.
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AnAtheist
Guest
Lisa N:
.
Technically those are not atheists. Someone who *blames *God must first acknowledge His existence. But surely there are people who turned away from their beliefs, because they saw a contradiction between a loving God and a personal sorrow.
Ok, I am one of them. I call us something else of course
.I try for becoming an atheist.
- Some have political reasons. Religion does not fit into their political ideology (communists).
- (You made me think of this one): Peer pressure. In some groups it may be chic being an atheist. Scientists, communists (see above), … That of course is the lousiest of all reasons. Peer pressure would apply to some theists too, I guess.
- The “I don’t care”-type. Some people do not care about anything, they simply ignore the important questions in life.
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abcdefg
Guest
"don’t care"s here call themselves atheists but judged by european standards, they should be witches. they believe in fortune tellings, demons, ghosts of the dead ,a kind of resurrection in which the dead will be re-born as a baby(can be anything’s baby, maybe human, dog, cow, snake etc). there’s nothing analogous to christian God in their ideology.
perhaps they claim to be atheists just to stay away from trouble.
I believe they’re easier to convert than you AnAtheist
I know one semi-atheist blamed the loss of his girlfriend on God. Why didn’t he blame it on Satan?
perhaps they claim to be atheists just to stay away from trouble.
I believe they’re easier to convert than you AnAtheist
I know one semi-atheist blamed the loss of his girlfriend on God. Why didn’t he blame it on Satan?
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AnAtheist
Guest
abcdefg said:
People who believe in demons, ghosts, horoscopes etc. are hardly to be called atheists. IMO
Perhaps because he has thought, Satan along with all his attributes was created by God in the first place?
G
GKB_Protasius
Guest
Greetings!
AnAtheist wrote:
Is there anybody here, who wants or wanted to be an atheist? I really like to know.
In order to help with your question, I will try and add a bit of my story. It’s a bit in the gray area, but it might be helpful in your attempts at classification.
I’m a convert to Catholicism from a sort of cynicism/skepticism. I did not call myself an atheist at the time because I couldn’t accept the atheist arguements just as I had trouble with the theist’s arguements. Over time, I eventually began to believe in God (I became a deist), then that Jesus is both man and God, and finally I became a Catholic (i had some philosophical reasons, but mostly I became convinced through historical reasons). I remember, either before or after becoming a Catholic, that there were times that I wanted to commit some sin and wishing, very hard, that there was no God. It was strange, because I think that I also thought that I wanted him at times to be gone and then come back. Through my intellect, I believed in God, but I still, in a sense, found it hard to believe, especially when I wanted to do something I knew I shouldn’t.
There are also times, when though I still intellectually believe that there is a God, that it is very hard to believe. I try to be open to the fact that I could be wrong, and that Catholicism/theism could be false, but of course, that is a very hard thing to do (that is, it’s hard to keep a truly open mind I think). Those periods go away and then sometimes God seems to obviously exist.
I should also point out that I have endogenuous depression (in other words, I get depressed for no external reason, for example, a family member dying. Rather, I get depressed from a checmical imbalance). That could be a factor in so much wobbling.
I hope this was helpful. It doesn’t completely fit your definition since I wasn’t a full fledged atheist, but since there were times that I wanted atheism to be true, I thought it might help.
peace in Christ,
Frank
AnAtheist wrote:
Is there anybody here, who wants or wanted to be an atheist? I really like to know.
In order to help with your question, I will try and add a bit of my story. It’s a bit in the gray area, but it might be helpful in your attempts at classification.
I’m a convert to Catholicism from a sort of cynicism/skepticism. I did not call myself an atheist at the time because I couldn’t accept the atheist arguements just as I had trouble with the theist’s arguements. Over time, I eventually began to believe in God (I became a deist), then that Jesus is both man and God, and finally I became a Catholic (i had some philosophical reasons, but mostly I became convinced through historical reasons). I remember, either before or after becoming a Catholic, that there were times that I wanted to commit some sin and wishing, very hard, that there was no God. It was strange, because I think that I also thought that I wanted him at times to be gone and then come back. Through my intellect, I believed in God, but I still, in a sense, found it hard to believe, especially when I wanted to do something I knew I shouldn’t.
There are also times, when though I still intellectually believe that there is a God, that it is very hard to believe. I try to be open to the fact that I could be wrong, and that Catholicism/theism could be false, but of course, that is a very hard thing to do (that is, it’s hard to keep a truly open mind I think). Those periods go away and then sometimes God seems to obviously exist.
I should also point out that I have endogenuous depression (in other words, I get depressed for no external reason, for example, a family member dying. Rather, I get depressed from a checmical imbalance). That could be a factor in so much wobbling.
I hope this was helpful. It doesn’t completely fit your definition since I wasn’t a full fledged atheist, but since there were times that I wanted atheism to be true, I thought it might help.
peace in Christ,
Frank
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