To Former Mormons

[Marie5890]

But the more y’all post, the more it makes me think of my missionary companions, the Mormons I know. The good friends and families I know.

**And how they blindly follow…

and how these “leaders” know they are blindly followed.**

And now I am angry.

Sigh

You got it, TK, you got it.

Makes me so angry, the spiritual abuse. And that is what it is.

The innocent, the “lambs” following their “shephards” who are LYING bold face.

The abuse.

Has me RAGING!

 

[TexanKnight]

You got it, TK, you got it.

Makes me so angry, the spiritual abuse. And that is what it is.

The innocent, the “lambs” following their “shephards” who are LYING bold face.

The abuse.

Has me RAGING!

guess now we know…the price of a soul is a million dollars

 

[RebeccaJ]

Same old, same old. Continuing in the tradition of Joseph Smith, who of course knew, his own lies.

 

[Marie5890]

Same old, same old. Continuing in the tradition of Joseph Smith, who of course knew, his own lies.

Indeed.

I guess I help out hope that at least some of them were sincere, even if they were sincerely ignorant…

 

[RebeccaJ]

Indeed.

I guess I help out hope that at least some of them were sincere, even if they were sincerely ignorant…

I spent years being angry at Mormonism and particularly Mormon leaders. I think it was made clear that LDS leaders will say anything when Hinckley denied a long held teaching and belief of all Mormons, and said “We don’t know.”. What a lie that was! I just can’t give them my anger any more. Nothing surprises me anymore about it’s teachings or it’s leaders. I’m more surprised at people who continue on as Mormons.

 

[Marie5890]

I spent years being angry at Mormonism and particularly Mormon leaders. I think it was made clear that LDS leaders will say anything when Hinckley denied a long held teaching and belief of all Mormons, and said “We don’t know.”. What a lie that was! I just can’t give them my anger any more. Nothing surprises me anymore about it’s teachings or it’s leaders. I’m more surprised at people who continue on as Mormons.

Well, the sheep will follow their shephards without question (or wolves in sheeps clothing).

I guess that is why Jesus used that as an example as a warning.

 

[PaulDupre1]

I have been saying for years that the top LDS leaders all know that the LDS church is not true. Many of the local leaders know it as well.

This is just more evidence of it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[TexanKnight]

I have been saying for years that the top LDS leaders all know that the LDS church is not true. Many of the local leaders know it as well.

This is just more evidence of it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Yep…I, too, have believed they have always known. How could they not?

Now, several things come clear…like Hinkley buying the Hoffman forgeries that he believed were authentic and hiding them from the public. Doesn’t that make more sense now?

 

[CWM31]

Im still sitting here enjoying university but ever knowing the few times I have tried to convince my family that the LDS church is a fraud, they said I would have to leave the house if I influenced my brother who is about to serve a mission or the family in general who are very devout. They have saved up 10k to give to the church to get my brother in the mission field, it’s all a large amount of hypocrisy. I am so glad that In Oct 2013 I found out about the truth of Mormonism, hoping I can start RCIA this fall or next, but still being on the rolls of the LDS church is a burden. I share the same sentiment that the rest of you have.

 

[KathleenGee]

Pray pray pray for the Mormon people. I have great pity for those poor people in foreign lands who do not have access to the internet or the truth of what Mormonism is found in this country.

I think the passage should be sent to the Vatican through the local bishop. Italy, esp Rome does not know about Mormonism…

I saw some Mormon business men visiting with Vatican officials when they were starting their new temple in Rome, and just reading their image, it was like the Vatican does not fully know or understand them.

It was an American priest or bishop, I cannot remember which, who went to Rome to let them know what the Mormons were doing to baptismal records, getting into parishes to obtain them.

Marie,…greatly sympathize with you. Work to call on the Holy Name of Jesus when trauma returns…we all have to as we all have our own traumas of abuse and being deceived, not by the Church but those representing them as we have seen with our own church scandals done by some priests and religious.

 

[KathleenGee]

I have to add an additional post here.

I think the former Mormons are so needed here because they know, they have experienced the problems, and have overcome them to be in the Truth of the Lord. They know when one of them come here to pull the wool over our eyes so to speak.

God bless those who have endured in the Lord, namely those who were Mormons and are not set free in the Lord.

I pray more Mormons come to this thread.

Thank you so much, Marie.

And now I just begin to reflect on Sabbathani who is going back into it…pray for that person.

 

[TexanKnight]

Im still sitting here enjoying university but ever knowing the few times I have tried to convince my family that the LDS church is a fraud, they said I would have to leave the house if I influenced my brother who is about to serve a mission or the family in general who are very devout. They have saved up 10k to give to the church to get my brother in the mission field, it’s all a large amount of hypocrisy. I am so glad that In Oct 2013 I found out about the truth of Mormonism, hoping I can start RCIA this fall or next, but still being on the rolls of the LDS church is a burden. I share the same sentiment that the rest of you have.

I am so happy for you!

 

[KendraM]

It makes me angry too! What Shawn said later on about Christianity and suffering was very good. That is what it is for those of us who take the burden of listening to the truth. Like wanting to not drink the bitter cup as Jesus did but eventually handing ourselves over to the will of God. It is God who works through us, not us working for our godhood.

 

[Janderich]

The video itself is not manipulative. I believe Grant Palmer.

I believe the LDS church is abusive of its members. I am angry too. My family is still LDS and I am so angry that their souls are being abused. They are good people but they refuse to think outside the box and consider Mormonism might be false. I have to be quiet and be shunned. All I can do is pray for them.

I am so glad that there are people out there telling the truth like the Tanners, Grant Palmer and Shawn McCraney.

Here is more “truth” from Grant Palmer, this time about LDS and Catholics, in a Salt Lake Tribune article entitled “Commentary: Jesus stressed kind behavior, not rituals, to get to heaven”:

How wide the divide in our greater Utah community is manifest by an imaginary situation in which a Roman Catholic and a Latter-day Saint decide to convert to the other’s religion. In such a case, both churches would require rebaptism. Each considers itself the sole legitimate holder of divine authority. The pathway to heavenly salvation for both is a series of ordinances and rituals. For the Catholics, it is most of their Seven Sacraments; for the LDS, baptism, confirmation, ordination, endowment and sealing. In order to live with God in the Heavenly City, one must undergo these rites performed by an authorized representative of God.

We find that Jesus confronted similar views during his ministry. The Pharisees exhibited the same elite and narrow attitude about who enters heaven. They said the Torah was normative for worship. In addition, of equal validity was a great body of extra-biblical oral tradition. God’s salvation, they asserted, was found exclusively in a strict outward observance of both the law and oral tradition.

Jesus paid little attention to their extra-biblical external commandments, rites and practice. Instead, he focused on the true spirit of religion - addressing the inner person, asking that we emulate his behavior and become reborn as good and loving people. The tendency of churches, then and now, is to look beyond the mark, to entail more than Jesus requires for entering heaven. sltrib.com/lds/ci_8411999

Do you still believe him? Is he telling the truth in this article?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Here is more “truth” from Grant Palmer, this time about LDS and Catholics, in a Salt Lake Tribune article entitled “Commentary: Jesus stressed kind behavior, not rituals, to get to heaven”:
Do you still believe him? Is he telling the truth in this article?

That is an opinion piece, which shows a lack of understanding of Catholic teaching, and is, a straw man . We don’t spend an enormous amount of time and resources doing Sacramental work for the dead as Mormons do for their ordinances. We hold no belief that someone who had never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, will be denied heaven, unless and until we dig up every name of the long dead and find someone to be baptized for them by proxy.

On the other hand Palmer relating an experience of speaking with high level LDS leadership and relating a conversation is not a opinion piece. There can be a question of whether or not he is relating something that really happened, but he isn’t presenting an opinion, even if it is a lie, he is presenting something as fact not opinion. He is presenting facts, that if true, are very damning to the LDS church.

I hope you are able to discern the difference between opinion and fact. A person can have an opinion, which can either be true or false or a mix of both. A fact is neither true or false, it just is. Is Palmer telling the truth about a fact, or just making something up? I think that is really the only direction you can go in attacking this report.

 

[Janderich]

Any of you see this before?

youtube.com/watch?v=WS8rRPyRpa4

IF THIS IS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING TRUE, I AM EXPERIENCING SUCH RAGE RIGHT NOW, I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. MAJOR CRISIS OF TRUST ALL OVER AGAIN

I wouldn’t worry too much about this. Nameless general authorities and nameless mission presidents. This sure seems convenient to me. With this dubious shadow of authority he can now say whatever he wants and some will believe him.

I love it, each member of the 12 receives a million dollar gift, it takes 2 or 3 years for an apostle to learn the church is false (except for Uchtdorf of course), the church is weak and about ready to burst because of apostates, etc. etc.

 

[KathleenGee]

Agree.

Janderich, you mention baptism. Ours is the authentic baptism that brings all essentially into membership of the Catholic Church, or should I say the universal Christian Church called Katholic simply because Greek was the universal language then.

Katholic Christian Church, the name for Christianity was Universal Christian Church. After the first 300 years of persecution, the Church began many more disciplines then for teaching, authenticity of faith, and the science of Christology…all to ensure that the true faith in Christ was passed on.

Jesus Christ is the great event of Revelation, the FINAL revelation of God, not Joseph Smith, 1850 years later.

Likewise Catholics have not been prosletyzing in the US from the get go. It is Mormonism that has been doing all sorts of things targeting Catholics, other Christians, and now poor, unassuming indigenous peoples in foreign countries. It is Mormonism that wants to take the world and cause new converts to break away from their own families, parents not being allowed to attend the sealing at Mormon weddings – a most painful form of hypocrisy for a belief system claiming to be so family oriented.

I have been musing about what Marie brought forth. I attended a Lutheran service and could relate to alot of the basic faith Lutherans have. Then I was thinking about the Mormon Quorum.

I remember Paul DePreu saying that the top in Mormon leadership know Joseph Smith was false, the whole belief system false. Membership making you an automatic saint. The money poured in. The disdain and put downs on non-Mormons they make their money on.

With these men willingly knowing this, and considering the priest sex abuse in our own Church, I am beginning to wonder if this whole game plan is something violating civil law.

I really think the whole Mormon issue of the Quorum, the question of them being paid to be quiet, is a federal and international crime. I am serious. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Janderich]

That is an opinion piece, which shows a lack of understanding of Catholic teaching, and is, a straw man . We don’t spend an enormous amount of time and resources doing Sacramental work for the dead as Mormons do for their ordinances. We hold no belief that someone who had never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, will be denied heaven, unless and until we dig up every name of the long dead and find someone to be baptized for them by proxy.

On the other hand Palmer relating an experience of speaking with high level LDS leadership and relating a conversation is not a opinion piece. There can be a question of whether or not he is relating something that really happened, but he isn’t presenting an opinion, even if it is a lie, he is presenting something as fact not opinion. He is presenting facts, that if true, are very damning to the LDS church.

I hope you are able to discern the difference between opinion and fact. A person can have an opinion, which can either be true or false or a mix of both. A fact is neither true or false, it just is. Is Palmer telling the truth about a fact, or just making something up? I think that is really the only direction you can go in attacking this report.

Rebecca, there is no way to validate these supposed facts. They are of the most damaging type but he offers no evidence an outsider can use to validate them. All we can do is look at him as a person and see what he has written. Is he honest? Does he always seek to attack other’s beliefs? What type of spirit does he posses?

 

[TexanKnight]

Here is more “truth” from Grant Palmer, this time about LDS and Catholics, in a Salt Lake Tribune article entitled “Commentary: Jesus stressed kind behavior, not rituals, to get to heaven”:
Do you still believe him? Is he telling the truth in this article?

one is opinion…one if facts that he witnessed.

So…yes…he told the truth about the LDS Church…which he knows intimately.

No, his opinion is wrong

 

[Janderich]

Agree.

Janderich, you mention baptism. Ours is the authentic baptism that brings all essentially into membership of the Catholic Church, or should I say the universal Christian Church called Katholic simply because Greek was the universal language then.

Katholic Christian Church, the name for Christianity was Universal Christian Church. After the first 300 years of persecution, the Church began many more disciplines then for teaching, authenticity of faith, and the science of Christology…all to ensure that the true faith in Christ was passed on.

Jesus Christ is the great event of Revelation, the FINAL revelation of God, not Joseph Smith, 1850 years later.

Likewise Catholics have not been prosletyzing in the US from the get go. It is Mormonism that has been doing all sorts of things targeting Catholics, other Christians, and now poor, unassuming indigenous peoples in foreign countries. It is Mormonism that wants to take the world and cause new converts to break away from their own families, parents not being allowed to attend the sealing at Mormon weddings – a most painful form of hypocrisy for a belief system claiming to be so family oriented.

I have been musing about what Marie brought forth. I attended a Lutheran service and could relate to alot of the basic faith Lutherans have. Then I was thinking about the Mormon Quorum.

I remember Paul DePreu saying that the top in Mormon leadership know Joseph Smith was false, the whole belief system false. Membership making you an automatic saint. The money poured in. The disdain and put downs on non-Mormons they make their money on.

With these men willingly knowing this, and considering the priest sex abuse in our own Church, I am beginning to wonder if this whole game plan is something violating civil law.

I really think the whole Mormon issue of the Quorum, the question of them being paid to be quiet, is a federal and international crime. I am serious. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Paul may say what he wants but that does not make it fact. If he said that the top Mormon leadership know Joseph Smith is false, or that the church is not true, is pure and utter speculation. Speculation, moreover, of the worst kind. For the apostles in their very testimonies proclaim Joseph was a prophet and the church is true. So Paul is calling them lairs and deceivers of millions.