To LDS. Why is the LDS church the legitiamte heir to the 1830 Church of Christ?

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Hello,
If we assume the historicity of the BOM why is the LDS church the legitimate heir to the original Church of Christ founded in 1830? There are many organizations which were founded from 1830 to the present with the BOM as a major part of their scripture. They each have there claim to being the legitimate continuation of the Church of Christ. What is the actual basis for the LDS claim?
 
Speaking from the LDS perspective here (explaining my perspective with ZERO interest in arguing it, so don’t try to argue):

I am a Mormon and believe the LDS church to be the One True church because it teaches the Truth. I find great harmony between the Bible, LDS-speicific scriptures, and my personal communion with God.

Other Christian churches, including other LDS spin-offs… honestly I’ve visited and conversed, but I always leave still spiritually thirsty (obviously I respect that other people have other feelings/experiences).

I do not find the limited man-derivived study of historicity to be a trustworthy of indicator of Truth, for or against any group.
 
Hello,
Code:
If we assume the historicity of the BOM why is the LDS church the legitimate heir to the original Church of Christ founded in 1830?  There are many organizations which were founded from 1830 to the present with the BOM as a major part of their scripture.  They each have there claim to being the legitimate continuation of the Church of Christ.  What is the actual basis for the LDS claim?
That is an excellent question and jane_doe gave an excellent answer. Another very short reason is that Brigham Young was the senior apostle when Joseph Smith was assassinated and so then the responsibility to preside went to him. Others who claimed the right to lead the church were not the senior apostle at that time. I hope this helps.
 
What is the actual basis for the LDS claim?
Well, probably the most basic basis for the LDS claim comes from the Book of Mormon where it urges folks to receive the scriptures and then ask God to confirm the truth, and if God does, then there’s your basis.

Basically, we’re big on James 1:5 being an active real thing today, where God actually witnesses things to us through the Holy Ghost.
 
Speaking from the LDS perspective here (explaining my perspective with ZERO interest in arguing it, so don’t try to argue):

I am a Mormon and believe the LDS church to be the One True church because it teaches the Truth. I find great harmony between the Bible, LDS-speicific scriptures, and my personal communion with God.

Other Christian churches, including other LDS spin-offs… honestly I’ve visited and conversed, but I always leave still spiritually thirsty (obviously I respect that other people have other feelings/experiences).

I do not find the limited man-derivived study of historicity to be a trustworthy of indicator of Truth, for or against any group.
But Mormonism is not Christian. It’s blasphemous for it’s belief in the existence of other gods and for believing the trinity is three gods instead of one all power all loving all knowing God. Please, I mean no offense. But Mormonism is paganism trying to mix itself with Christianity. Mormonism preaches a false gospel. If you truly want to experience the love and grace of God, actually become a Christian. Join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
 
Isn’t there a forum rule against proselytizing?
I would not call a single statement of truth proselytizing. I have always wecomed Mormon missionaries into my home as I admire their commitment of a year to their religious faith and see them as attempting to care for my soul, which I appreciate.
Most are young men from America whose naivety is so obvious but they bring a real faith in their beliefs with them.
I have attempted through many discussions to understand their beliefs and find I cannot find any truth to them, especially given the known history of the establishment of the church and its founder.
Do not feel that a clear and precise posting of a varying belief and support of the religion of the poster out of place. We must all try to understand each other with respect.
I too have found that the belief in many Gods puts Mormonism outside the conventional definition of a Christian Church as many of us define it. Please do not be offended.
 
Hello gazelam,
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gazelam>>>That is an excellent question and jane_doe gave an excellent answer. Another very short reason is that Brigham Young was the senior apostle when Joseph Smith was assassinated and so then the responsibility to preside went to him. Others who claimed the right to lead the church were not the senior apostle at that time. I hope this helps.<<<
I was an LDS convert for a few years and then switched to the temple lot group.  This was all a long time ago.  Prior to Josephs death he gave instructions (supposedly from God) on how the church was to be governed.  Were there any revelations stating the senior apostle should lead?
Neurotypical>>>Well, probably the most basic basis for the LDS claim comes from the Book of Mormon where it urges folks to receive the scriptures and then ask God to confirm the truth, and if God does, then there’s your basis.

Basically, we’re big on James 1:5 being an active real thing today, where God actually witnesses things to us through the Holy Ghost.<<<
Code:
Being an ex LDS I gave some thought to what is the purpose of the Holy Ghost.  Should I ask what stocks to buy?  Should I ask if there ever was an Atlantis?  Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried?  I don't think it can be used for idle curiosity.  

the philosopher>>>But Mormonism is not Christian. It's blasphemous for it's belief in the existence of other gods and for believing the trinity is three gods instead of one all power all loving all knowing God. Please, I mean no offense. But Mormonism is paganism trying to mix itself with Christianity. Mormonism preaches a false gospel. If you truly want to experience the love and grace of God, actually become a Christian. Join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. <<<

I agree with Gazelam.  This is proseletizing.  Since my topic wasn't about the trinity your also disrupting the thread.
 
Code:
Being an ex LDS I gave some thought to what is the purpose of the Holy Ghost.  Should I ask what stocks to buy?  Should I ask if there ever was an Atlantis?  Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried?  I don't think it can be used for idle curiosity.
Okay… Not sure what you’re driving at with these questions… But to answer them in order: I never have, I never have, I never have.

Surely, “Is the LDS church what it claims to be?” is not something you’d consider to be “idle curiosity”, is it?
 
Okay… Not sure what you’re driving at with these questions… But to answer them in order: I never have, I never have, I never have.

Surely, “Is the LDS church what it claims to be?” is not something you’d consider to be “idle curiosity”, is it?
Hello NeuroTypical
Code:
 >>>Basically, we're big on James 1:5 being an active real thing today, where God actually witnesses things to us through the Holy Ghost.<<<

 I got around to reading the 1st chapter of James today.  It seems to me that James is referring to wisdom needed to fight temptation.  Many people sow some wild oats when there young and then eventually come to realize that certain lifestyles carry a price tag later in life.  As they grow older they naturally gain that wisdom.  My interpretation of what James is saying is that James is telling them to seek this wisdom from God.  If you want to believe the HG will witness other stuff to us is up to you but I don't think you can use James as a proof text for it unless the person your making the claim to is too lazy to look past the one verse.

Many churches (including LDS) include in there doctrine what I like to call "mysteries of the universe".  Catholics have there purgatory and Limbo.  LDS have Kolob and God having a wife.  These all appeal to the idle curiosity we all share.
 
Code:
Many churches (including LDS) include in there doctrine what I like to call "mysteries of the universe".  Catholics have there purgatory **and Limbo.**  LDS have Kolob and God having a wife.  These all appeal to the idle curiosity we all share.
Just want to point out that limbo is not a doctrine. never was.
 
I love the Mormon threads and am always interested to see where the conversation goes. It is my understanding that there is more than one Mormon church. Such as the FLDS, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, The Community of Christ, The Bicktertonite, RLDS, and probably a few more. If I recall correctly, Joseph Smith claimed his divine inspiration came when he was praying on which denomination to join. Of course, there are schisms in mainstream Christianity too, but either way, it seems like those groups would point to that text as a reason NOT to break away from the true Mormon church (which ever it may be)
 
I love the Mormon threads and am always interested to see where the conversation goes. It is my understanding that there is more than one Mormon church. Such as the FLDS, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, The Community of Christ, The Bicktertonite, RLDS, and probably a few more. If I recall correctly, Joseph Smith claimed his divine inspiration came when he was praying on which denomination to join. Of course, there are schisms in mainstream Christianity too, but either way, it seems like those groups would point to that text as a reason NOT to break away from the true Mormon church (which ever it may be)
There is only one Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which is commonly referred to as “the Mormon Church” or “LDS”. There are other churches which incorporate at least some of the teaching of Joseph Smith (whom the LDS revere as a prophet), but none of these groups are in any way affiliated with Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, nor do they like to be called “Mormon”. These other churches also differ from the LDS in terms of books of scripture, doctrines (what Catholics would call Sacred Tradition), and lifestyle.

Going over the larger groups by the numbers–
  • There are <16 million people whom are members of some church which revers Joseph Smith as a prophet.
  • 15 million are member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
  • <0.5 million are part of the Community of Christ (previously known as the RLDS). They left the LDS church over the succession of Joseph Smith.
  • <0.01 million are part of the FLDS (Warren’s Jeff’s group). They left the LDS church over doctrinal issues regarding the end of polygyny.
 
,nor do they like to be called “Mormon”.
Fundamentalist LDS and the Strangites call themselves Mormons.
  • <0.01 million are part of the FLDS (Warren’s Jeff’s group). They left the LDS church over doctrinal issues regarding the end of polygyny.
Warren Jeff’s group is one FLDS group. There other groups who live integrated into mainstream society.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement#LDS-derived_churches_upholding_polygamy_after_the_Manifesto_of_1890
 
That is an excellent question and jane_doe gave an excellent answer. Another very short reason is that Brigham Young was the senior apostle when Joseph Smith was assassinated and so then the responsibility to preside went to him. Others who claimed the right to lead the church were not the senior apostle at that time. I hope this helps.
This is of course, the LDS view which is not shared by other groups that originate in the Latter Day Saint movement. For examples,the Rigdonites recognize Sydney Rigdon as the legitimate successor to Smith, because he was the first counselor to Smith.

The “senior apostle” as successor is a claim that came from Young, and is not the line of succession that Smith had put into place. Smith anointed his eldest son as his successor, recorded as having done so three times. With Smith’s untimely murder, the boy was too young to lead. But here is where the RLDS claim to the correct succession lies, as the boy once grown, led that group.
 
This is of course, the LDS view which is not shared by other groups that originate in the Latter Day Saint movement. For examples,the Rigdonites recognize Sydney Rigdon as the legitimate successor to Smith, because he was the first counselor to Smith.

The “senior apostle” as successor is a claim that came from Young, and is not the line of succession that Smith had put into place. Smith anointed his eldest son as his successor, recorded as having done so three times. With Smith’s untimely murder, the boy was too young to lead. But here is where the RLDS claim to the correct succession lies, as the boy once grown, led that group.
Nine years before Joseph Smith’s martyrdom Jesus Christ directed Joseph Smith to establish 2 ruling bodies: The First Presidency (D&C 107:22) and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles (D&C 107:23)

D&C 107:22 Of the Melchizedek Priesthood,* three Presiding High Priests**, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church.*

D&C 107:23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.

Christ declared that the two bodies are equal in power and authority.

D&C 107:24 And they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three presidents previously mentioned.

This was reaffirmed two years later.

D&C 112:30 For unto you, the Twelve, and those, the First Presidency, who are appointed with you to be your counselors and your leaders, is the power of this priesthood given, for the last days and for the last time, in the which is the dispensation of the fulness of times,

With the martyrdom of Joseph Smith there was no First Presidency any more since its head was gone. The Twelve Apostles were the only remaining ruling body with Brigham Young its head. Brigham Young was designated the president of the Twelve Apostles in 1841.

D&C 124:127* I give unto you my servant Brigham Young to be a president over the Twelve. traveling council;*

A talk by Gordon B. Hinckley addressed these matters at a time when a transcript of a Father’s Blessing came in the possession of the LDS Church. See lds.org/general-conference/1981/04/the-joseph-smith-iii-document-and-the-keys-of-the-kingdom?lang=eng

Note this paragraph from that talk…

First, it should be said that the document is a transcript of a blessing. It is not a record of ordination to an office. As a matter of fact, the recipient of the blessing, Joseph Smith III, himself testified in 1893, in the U.S. Circuit Court in Kansas City: “I did not state that I was ordained by my father: I did not make that statement. I was not ordained by my father as his successor: according to my understanding of the word ordain, I was not. I was blessed by him and designated, well in a sense chosen.

Joseph Smith III admitted in 1893 that he was never ordained to lead the LDS Church.

Regarding Priesthood Blessings, the promises made are conditional on the righteousness of the recipient.

I hope this helps…
 
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