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M_Leakos
Guest
RINNIE: I’ve been told the reason Christ asked Peter three times, “Do you love me?” was to give Peter a chance to repent for the 3 times he denied Jesus.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Thank you Benedictus2,
I am so glad you have picked up on and commented on Lief’s thinking and analytical ability. You write:
" But most of all I was very impressed by Lief. The rationality of his thinking that led him to the Church was in most ways similar to those of Scott Hahn, Cardinal Newman and Thomas Howard."
I endorse these views completely. When I first came on Catholic Answers Forum, I searched widely and read many posts. The Holy Spirit led me to the posts of Lief Erikson and I was impressed at the outset by his authenticity, credible spiritual experience, the coherence of his arguments and his thinking and analytical abilities.
Praise God for Lief! I pray for him that God will bless and guide him according to His perfect will.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Thanks Rinnie,
You write:
“That is why it is a special calling from God to become a Priest. Not all are called. But we can be priests in the sense that we can be Christ Like. But I Craig do not have the power like I said to define scripture, Marry People, Baptise People, Forgive sins of others. Only God can do that, and it is through a Priest that he works”.
I can respect your opinion. I also have a genuine love for true Catholics.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
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benedictus2
Guest
That is true. But that is only half of the story, because after each affirmation by Peter, Jesus entrusts his lamb and his sheep to Him.
I especially love the passage when Jesus said that God has permitted the devil to sift the disciples, but Jesus has especially prayed for Peter so that when he overcomes he may strengthen the others.
Before the above passage you mentioned, Peter and John were in the boat. John recognizes Jesus and tells Peter and straight away Peter jumps into the water to go to his Master.
A monk commenting on the gospel of John wrote that John was the disciple Jesus loved but that Peter was the disciple who loved Jesus and that is why he was entrusted with the sheep. Christ knew that out of love for Him, Peter will love His sheep too.
I was thinking about this the other day and I thought that the emphasis on John being the disciple Jesus loved is because in the end, He will entrust this disciple to Mary his mother and vice-versa. If John represents us being entrusted to his Mother, then we are the disciples Jesus love, that is why he is giving us His mother.
But I am digresssing…
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guanophore
Guest
Ok. this is Apostolic Teaching. How is that “semi-Pelagian”? Also, how do you understand Pelagianism?
I could not defend that either, since the CAtholic Church is not “Roman”. However, Jesus did invest His Apostles with Authority, and it was only to them that He gave the promise of the Spirit to guide them into all truth, and bring to rememberance that which He had taught. That gift they passed on to their successors, and it is those successors that are the custodians of the gift today. The gift was given to all the Apostles, in unity with Peter.
This is not to say that infallibility does not occur elsewhere. Just as His Grace, His Truth knows no boundaries. This is a “negative” gift, to the extent that it prevents the Church from teaching error. While God may preserve others also from teaching error, it was only to the Church He founded that He bestowed this gift.
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Cinette
Guest
I first came to Catholic Answers in July and I have to say that this particular thread has impressed me the most, perhaps because of the cordiality and respect – most of all because of the valuable witness and sharing which I have archived for future reference and to revisit. I have already re-read several postings. What these forums permit is an opening up of the soul. We get a peek into the souls of others.
It is a curious thing but for me this is the greatest intimacy of all. I have never opened up more to anyone. Even with my husband, there was a time when praying with him was difficult because it was so intimate. It is not easy to expose the soul. Yet I have a very demonstrative and bold personality!
I have never had any discussions like these with my own family. There is a shyness and a hesitancy – I don’t wish to probe. Belonging to Family of God – a Charismatic group that has been in existence for 36 years, meeting every Tuesday and networking with them, participating in Life in the Spirit Seminars and Healing Seminars, did break down my shyness of such intimacy. But it still persists in a reduced way.
Each person on this thread has contributed to its beauty in their own unique way. Lief (which in the Afrikaans language means “love”) has a very special gift and I believe will affect many who cross his path in life. It’s funny but even the most humble and less informed person can have influence. I remember hesitating when asked to lead/co-lead in groups claiming that I was just a baby Christian. Then I remembered Jesus chose mere fishermen who were probably illiterate. To my amazement I found myself saying things that I had not even thought! Where did that come from?
For Craig, who is the OP, it must be particularly difficult to take in and absorb so much information in such a short period. Quite a balancing act between CA and his personal life and work! It amounts to a huge “information overload”. Like myself, and probably others as well, we will archive copies of this thread to masticate and reflect. Seeds need time to germinate and the process of metamorphosis must be allowed to develop and flower within the passage of time. In matters of Faith the most essential element is the Holy Spirit. We may never reap what we sow. Similarly we may reap what others have sown.
Love
Cinette
It is a curious thing but for me this is the greatest intimacy of all. I have never opened up more to anyone. Even with my husband, there was a time when praying with him was difficult because it was so intimate. It is not easy to expose the soul. Yet I have a very demonstrative and bold personality!
I have never had any discussions like these with my own family. There is a shyness and a hesitancy – I don’t wish to probe. Belonging to Family of God – a Charismatic group that has been in existence for 36 years, meeting every Tuesday and networking with them, participating in Life in the Spirit Seminars and Healing Seminars, did break down my shyness of such intimacy. But it still persists in a reduced way.
Each person on this thread has contributed to its beauty in their own unique way. Lief (which in the Afrikaans language means “love”) has a very special gift and I believe will affect many who cross his path in life. It’s funny but even the most humble and less informed person can have influence. I remember hesitating when asked to lead/co-lead in groups claiming that I was just a baby Christian. Then I remembered Jesus chose mere fishermen who were probably illiterate. To my amazement I found myself saying things that I had not even thought! Where did that come from?
For Craig, who is the OP, it must be particularly difficult to take in and absorb so much information in such a short period. Quite a balancing act between CA and his personal life and work! It amounts to a huge “information overload”. Like myself, and probably others as well, we will archive copies of this thread to masticate and reflect. Seeds need time to germinate and the process of metamorphosis must be allowed to develop and flower within the passage of time. In matters of Faith the most essential element is the Holy Spirit. We may never reap what we sow. Similarly we may reap what others have sown.
Love
Cinette
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benedictus2
Guest
True, true. The first time I joined I did not post anything for quite a while for fear of sounding stupid. And when I did post I tried to stay safe.
But then, I thought no matter how stupid it may sound someone might benefit from it so off it went to the boards.
You can say that again.
and again
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benedictus2
Guest
Hi Craig,
You might find this website helpful in reference to the text I highlighted.
davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm
This is a pretty extensive website and deals mostly with protestant questions on Catholicism.
The one below traces the east-west schism but I think relates to your question as well as it shows the first “splintering” of the body of Christ.
davidmacd.com/catholic/orthodox/timeline_history_of_catholic_orthodox_relations.htm
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benedictus2
Guest
Of all His bishops (His Apostles) he continually singles him out.
First was the changing of his name and the promise to build His church upon him, giving him the keys, then just before his agony in the garden in Luke 22:31 he says:
“Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”
And then after the resurrection He singles him out again and entrusts his sheep to him.
In spite of John writing that John was the disciple Jesus loved, here we have Jesus singling out Peter from among his disciples to entrust him His sheep.
And this is where his primacy derives from. So the Bishop of Rome being a successor to Peter becomes the prime bishop.
But why Rome and not Jerusalem? The link in my previous post gives a quick overview of this.
Since during this time there was only one Church, the Bishop of Rome was therefore the Prime bishop of the Universal Church.
In the links I gave in my previous post, there is also section which details the succession of Popes from Peter.
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Snowy
Guest
I had asked for reasonable theological proof.
(I found many of the other things you said helpful, thanks for taking the time to explain them.)
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Snowy
Guest
Thank you for satisfying my curiosity, Craig. A Baptist no less?
Out of respect for you I’ll stop using Baptists when I make a joke about Protestants who like to ululate at Church while running down the aisles. We got our fair share of crazies as well, they just don’t show as much because we’ve got them on a short leash. When I became a Christian six weeks ago I could have easily gone Protestant, and what decided the issue for me was emotions rather than ruminations. What I dislike most about Protestants (don’t take it as a personal attack) is the uppity disdain I sense among them towards the very large portion of Christians who are barely literate if at all and don’t really understand much of what they hear at Church, and yet are graced with a faith that many Protestant students of koine Greek would like for themselves.
Even if I cannot come up with the theological arguments in this thread, I can follow them, and they could be classified under two broad columns: “Who’s boss down here?” and “What came first, the chicken or the egg?”. They can be boiled down to pride, the ultimate sin. It isn’t theology that’s going to reunite the Church, but humility.
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Lief_Erikson
Guest
That is a total misunderstanding of the importance and the whole point of what we’re talking about. The central question of this thread has become, “how do we know what is true?” Authority and knowing the source of doctrine, trusting in what we know to be fallible (our private interpretations of the Bible) vs. what we believe to be infallible (the Magesterium’s interpretation of the Bible), is critically important to all our knowledge of doctrine! We are discussing that which is fundamental to our knowledge of truth and to the perfection of our relationships with Jesus.
Pride has absolutely nothing to do with it. The point (and I know Craig understands this) of all the “chicken or the egg” and “who’s boss” is this: “How do we know what is true?” A crucial question for anyone serious about his or her Christian life, for Christian life is relationship with one who once called Himself “the truth.”
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Hi Cinette,I first came to Catholic Answers in July and I have to say that this particular thread has impressed me the most, perhaps because of the cordiality and respect – most of all because of the valuable witness and sharing which I have archived for future reference and to revisit. I have already re-read several postings. What these forums permit is an opening up of the soul. We get a peek into the souls of others.
It is a curious thing but for me this is the greatest intimacy of all. I have never opened up more to anyone. Even with my husband, there was a time when praying with him was difficult because it was so intimate. It is not easy to expose the soul. Yet I have a very demonstrative and bold personality!
I have never had any discussions like these with my own family. There is a shyness and a hesitancy – I don’t wish to probe. Belonging to Family of God – a Charismatic group that has been in existence for 36 years, meeting every Tuesday and networking with them, participating in Life in the Spirit Seminars and Healing Seminars, did break down my shyness of such intimacy. But it still persists in a reduced way.
Each person on this thread has contributed to its beauty in their own unique way. Lief (which in the Afrikaans language means “love”) has a very special gift and I believe will affect many who cross his path in life. It’s funny but even the most humble and less informed person can have influence. I remember hesitating when asked to lead/co-lead in groups claiming that I was just a baby Christian. Then I remembered Jesus chose mere fishermen who were probably illiterate. To my amazement I found myself saying things that I had not even thought! Where did that come from?
For Craig, who is the OP, it must be particularly difficult to take in and absorb so much information in such a short period. Quite a balancing act between CA and his personal life and work! It amounts to a huge “information overload”. Like myself, and probably others as well, we will archive copies of this thread to masticate and reflect. Seeds need time to germinate and the process of metamorphosis must be allowed to develop and flower within the passage of time. In matters of Faith the most essential element is the Holy Spirit. We may never reap what we sow. Similarly we may reap what others have sown.
Love
Cinette
In your post you write:
“For Craig, who is the OP, it must be particularly difficult to take in and absorb so much information in such a short period. Quite a balancing act between CA and his personal life and work! It amounts to a huge “information overload.”
I am just curious what you mean by the term OP you use in your post here?
Also what do you mean by the term CA as you use it here?
You have raised my curiosity and I look forward to your explanations. I know you will not disappoint me, in this connection, and you will respond to my questions.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
T
twb1621
Guest
Beautiful expression of Christian devotion, Cinette. I could feel that in your words. God Bless youI first came to Catholic Answers in July and I have to say that this particular thread has impressed me the most, perhaps because of the cordiality and respect – most of all because of the valuable witness and sharing which I have archived for future reference and to revisit. I have already re-read several postings. What these forums permit is an opening up of the soul. We get a peek into the souls of others.
It is a curious thing but for me this is the greatest intimacy of all. I have never opened up more to anyone. Even with my husband, there was a time when praying with him was difficult because it was so intimate. It is not easy to expose the soul. Yet I have a very demonstrative and bold personality!
I have never had any discussions like these with my own family. There is a shyness and a hesitancy – I don’t wish to probe. Belonging to Family of God – a Charismatic group that has been in existence for 36 years, meeting every Tuesday and networking with them, participating in Life in the Spirit Seminars and Healing Seminars, did break down my shyness of such intimacy. But it still persists in a reduced way.
Each person on this thread has contributed to its beauty in their own unique way. Lief (which in the Afrikaans language means “love”) has a very special gift and I believe will affect many who cross his path in life. It’s funny but even the most humble and less informed person can have influence. I remember hesitating when asked to lead/co-lead in groups claiming that I was just a baby Christian. Then I remembered Jesus chose mere fishermen who were probably illiterate. To my amazement I found myself saying things that I had not even thought! Where did that come from?
For Craig, who is the OP, it must be particularly difficult to take in and absorb so much information in such a short period. Quite a balancing act between CA and his personal life and work! It amounts to a huge “information overload”. Like myself, and probably others as well, we will archive copies of this thread to masticate and reflect. Seeds need time to germinate and the process of metamorphosis must be allowed to develop and flower within the passage of time. In matters of Faith the most essential element is the Holy Spirit. We may never reap what we sow. Similarly we may reap what others have sown.
Love
Cinette
C
Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Hi Craig,
You might find this website helpful in reference to the text I highlighted.
davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm
This is a pretty extensive website and deals mostly with protestant questions on Catholicism.
The one below traces the east-west schism but I think relates to your question as well as it shows the first “splintering” of the body of Christ.
davidmacd.com/catholic/orthodox/timeline_history_of_catholic_orthodox_relations.htm
Thanks Benedictus2,
I appreciate the links you have given and I will follow through with them.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
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benedictus2
Guest
I think I can answer for Cinnette.
OP is Original Poster or Original Post (so the thread starter and the the first post)
CA is Catholic Answers.
Although this really should be CAF (Catholic Answers Forums) to distinguished from Catholic Answers which is another website altogether though related to CAF.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Very well said, Snowy. I understand exactly where you are coming from.Thank you for satisfying my curiosity, Craig. A Baptist no less?
When I became a Christian six weeks ago I could have easily gone Protestant, and what decided the issue for me was emotions rather than ruminations. What I dislike most about Protestants (don’t take it as a personal attack) is the uppity disdain I sense among them towards the very large portion of Christians who are barely literate if at all and don’t really understand much of what they hear at Church, and yet are graced with a faith that many Protestant students of koine Greek would like for themselves.
Even if I cannot come up with the theological arguments in this thread, I can follow them, and they could be classified under two broad columns: “Who’s boss down here?” and “What came first, the chicken or the egg?”. They can be boiled down to pride, the ultimate sin. It isn’t theology that’s going to reunite the Church, but humility.
You have expressed yourself very well here. You see, I have no desire to defend “protestantism” per se or any denomination for that matter.
What draws my admiration is humility, sincerity and genuine love in following Christ.
We are on the same wave length here.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Very well said, too, Lief.
The only reason I am on this Forum is to attempt to come to better understandings of the truth. At this time, Catholics are supplying me with some better explanations of truth than I’ve held to in the past. There are, too, some things that Catholics hold that I find difficult; there are, furthermore, points held by Catholics where I could not “go all the way.”
This is not pride or a seeking after power. I despise and reject both. I have no admiration for either; and I do not desire either. Lief, is correct - we are seeking after truth.
That said, Snowy, we should always act in humility and sincerity in seeking after the truth. That, of course, does not exempt us in any way from rigorous theological debate and discussion. We need this and we must do this! However, your point is well taken that whether we are Catholics or Protestants the fruit in our lives of love, genuiness and humility in following Jesus should be clearly evident.
These are vital principles that shape my core identity as a person and as a Christian.
God bless you, In Christ Craig
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
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benedictus2
Guest
Hi All,
As a result of Snowy’s post and a few other things I have been mulling over, I have started a thread called “Does God Exist?”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284816
For Snowy and those who have converted from Agnosticism/Atheism to Theism, I would appreciate if you could add your two bits in this thread.
I especially would like your sharing the thought process that became part of your conversion.
A “Pauline” like conversion will not be helpfull because this presupposes the action of God which would beg the question.
Thanks in advance.
As a result of Snowy’s post and a few other things I have been mulling over, I have started a thread called “Does God Exist?”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284816
For Snowy and those who have converted from Agnosticism/Atheism to Theism, I would appreciate if you could add your two bits in this thread.
I especially would like your sharing the thought process that became part of your conversion.
A “Pauline” like conversion will not be helpfull because this presupposes the action of God which would beg the question.
Thanks in advance.
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