To live by faith

  • Thread starter Thread starter Craig_Kennedy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
This is a boat of fishermen. Some of the apostles were fishermen too. Jesus uses this to make a prophecy.

Matthew 4:17-20. “From that time Jesus began to proclaim, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.’ As He walked by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea - for they were fishermen. And He said to them, ‘Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.’ Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.”

The reference to the Kingdom fits too, because Jesus compares the Kingdom to a net.

Matthew 13:47-50. “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and caught fish of every kind; when it was full, they drew it ashore, sat down, and put the good into baskets but threw out the bad. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Luke’s Gospel Story is a lesson about the future. The Lord sends His Apostles out on to the lake in a boat, and in that boat there are many roles to fill. There is the captain, there are men to row, men to mind the sail - there are men to cast the nets, to haul in the fish - and when the boat returns to shore, there are men and women to clean the fish, to salt some of the catch for preserving, and to take the rest for cooking, so that everyone may feast, and their hunger be assuaged.

This is not the only time in the Gospels, when the boat, the fishing boat, the Bark of Peter figures in Our Lord’s teaching to His Apostles. One time, while He sleeps, a storm rages, putting the fear of death into the Apostles. But Our Lord wakes up and calms the storm. Another time, His desire to be with His men moves Him to walk upon the waters, and He challenges Peter to do the same. Both times, Our Lord chides His men about their lack of faith - for if we have faith in Him, in His care for us, then no storm will overturn the boat in which we sail, and no water will open to swallow us up in darkness.

The boat, dear friends, is the Church, and Peter is its captain - but always above, more powerful than the storm or the deep, and always ready to provide the food we need, is the Holy Spirit, the protecting arm of the Lord, the invincible strength, against which, as He promised, the gates of Hell will not prevail. And in the boat and upon the shore waiting are the men and women of the Church - bishops, priests, deacons, religious, lay men and women, each with their function, each with their work to make the boat work, to haul in the catch, and to provide for the needs of all whose life depends upon the boat, and the boat’s payload.

In the following Gospel Story of Luke, note that of the two available boats, Jesus selected Simon’s boat. Here the spotlight is on Simon Peter, who would later lead the early Church, but his companions are always in the shadows, ready to help. Simon’s boat is seen as a symbol of the pilgrim Church on earth. Jesus gets into Peter’s boat in order to teach the crowds; and from the Bark of Peter, the Church, He continues to teach the whole world. The vastness of the catch is a symbol of the many nations to whom the gospel will be preached…

Luke 5:1-11. As the crowd pressed in on Jesus to hear the word of God, He saw two boats moored by the side of the lake; the fishermen had disembarked and were washing their nets. He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to pull out a short distance from the shore; then, remaining seated, He continued to teach the crowds from the boat. When He had finished speaking He said to Simon, “Put out into deep water and lower your nets for a catch.” Simon answered, “Master, we have been hard at it all night long and have caught nothing; but if You say so, I will lower the nets.” Upon doing this they caught such a great number of fish that their nets were at the breaking point. They signaled to their mates in the other boat to come and help them. These came, and together they filled the two boats until they nearly sank.

At the sight of this, Simon Peter fell at the knees of Jesus saying, “Leave me, Lord. I am a sinful man.” For indeed, amazement at the catch they had made seized him and all his shipmates, as well as James and John, Zebedee’s sons, who were partners with Simon. Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid. From now on you will be catching men.” With that they brought their boats to land, left everything, and became His followers.
 
.Craig, I believe that you will see this so I am responding to your decision. You have received a great deal of information here in a very short time. It is best for all of us who have been in this discussion with you to remember that we can only provide the information to you and anything else is between you and the Holy Spirit. Sometimes we get a bit over zealous as I say in my signature line but we need to remind ourselves of this at times. I recognize your desires and offer you my prayers that all that you have received will benefit your life. I am sure this is a common desire of all of us and you are welcome to and encouraged to return at any time. Brothers in Christ
TO TOM, LIEF AND FRIENDS IN CHRIST,

Thank you for your encouragement to return to this forum.

I have prayed overnight about my decision, and the Holy Spirit has impressed upon me that true love of God and the neighbour is infinitely more important and precious than disputing “fine lines of theology.”

I will, then, return to this discussion forum. I will not, though, feel obliged to reply to every post. I will post if I think I have something to contribute to the mix and it doesn’t “consume” my time.

I will still feel free to contribute my opinions, but I do not - of course - consider my views, necessarily, as the final word or INDEFEASIBLE. This applies to other posters too.

Thank you for your fellowship and the opportunity to continue to learn and grow in the truth. I do appreciate that. However, please respect my free will and integrity as a Christian and do not attempt to “force” me to adopt positions against my conscience.

God bless, In Christ Craig
 
Cinette, I am certain Craig is being honest.

I know you’re alone responding to everybody right now, and you also want to think through things rather than responding off the top of your head.

I may relax my pressure for a while, as several parts of my upcoming week look pretty busy. Though I have Tuesday off.

I had a wonderful devotional period yesterday, praying the Rosary :). I included you in the prayer, Craig! In fact, you were the main reason I did it. It was 2 hours long and filled with such joy and the presence of God and Mary.

Don’t leave the forum! Ack! 😦 Take a break if you like, though, by all means. Don’t feel you have to respond to us immediately; take your time and, as you told me over email, let your other responsibilities come first. Plus your health 😃 ;).
Hi Lief,

I was most encouraged by your words here.

I was especially touched by your words:

" had a wonderful devotional period yesterday, praying the Rosary :). I included you in the prayer, Craig! In fact, you were the main reason I did it. It was 2 hours long and filled with such joy and the presence of God and Mary."

Thank you for including me - a non-Catholic! - in your prayer and doing this for me. I am most moved, actually. This means far more to me than disputing over who is right or who is wrong about “fine lines of theology.”

Yes, indeed, the love of God and the neighbour; and a life of good works flowing from the Spirit are more meaningful than theological polemics.

I thank God for you, brother in Christ.

Blessings, Craig
 
When I read the Gospels, I get an “overdose” of child-like faith. Then I go on with my life and live by faith by not worrying about tomorrow’s bread and putting myself in the hands of God, basically. Just like any real Protestant, I would guess. I don’t worry about doctrinal punctilios, and if someone hates my Pope it will be his hate that will lead him to Hell, not his lack of proper doctrine. If you love God above all else and your neighbor like yourself, what more can I ask of you? How many of our cradle Catholics would be Catholic if they had been born cradle Baptists?

That said, if you’re an imperfect Christian like the rest of us, I believe that working your way to Heaven through faith and good works rather than just by faith will save you many years in Purgatory. And you have no idea what you’re missing by turning your back on the Virgin Mary.
Thank you Snowy,

You have been a breath of fresh air in my life, right now, quite frankly.

You say these memorable words:

“If you love God above all else and your neighbor like yourself, what more can I ask of you? How many of our cradle Catholics would be Catholic if they had been born cradle Baptists?”

These words are music to my ears - in fact, they are so good we should all have them “framed.”

God bless, In Christ Craig
 
Sometimes I cannot help but wonder if God put theologians in this world just to test our faith and our patience. Do they really need to figure out whether the Trinity is consubstantiated or subconstantiated in order to love their neighbor? And to start wars over it? I have enough trouble loving my neighbor down the street who insists on educating my musical taste to have time to worry about the nature of God! If he plays the Macarena at full blast one more time I’m going to explode!
Hi Snowy,

Again, I can identify with this post implicitly.

It is the love of God and the neighbour, that is the substantial basis of my deep respect for true Catholics.

I still believe in, of course, deep thinking, rigorous theological debate and accurate analysis of doctrine; all of these things, without a doubt, have their proper place and context.

However, if we have done our thinking properly then right conduct - that is, the love of God and the neighbour should ensue, in a life of good works flowing from the Spirit.

Thank you for these posts. God has used them and by His Spirit, now as I write these words, a DEEP AND INDESCRIBABLE PEACE HAS ENTERED MY SOUL.

Praise God!

Blessings, In Christ
 
I do not say this, of course, to agitate you or annoy you. I say this out of honesty. I cannot concede that Scripture shares its authority with Sacred Tradition and I do not believe that Scripture affords a PLACE or SPACE to a MAGISTERIUM.

These, my friend, are the differences between us. However, they will not prevent us from being united in the Church Triumphant, in heaven.

Cheers, In Christ Craig
Again I apologize for coming late to the thread. If you answered this already, please excuse me and I will find it as I catch up.

I am curious, what do you think happened to the Apostle’s teaching after some of it was committed to writing?

Also, do you see Jesus creating any teaching authority?
 
TO TOM, LIEF AND FRIENDS IN CHRIST,

Thank you for your encouragement to return to this forum.

I have prayed overnight about my decision, and the Holy Spirit has impressed upon me that true love of God and the neighbour is infinitely more important and precious than disputing “fine lines of theology.”

I will, then, return to this discussion forum. I will not, though, feel obliged to reply to every post. I will post if I think I have something to contribute to the mix and it doesn’t “consume” my time.

I will still feel free to contribute my opinions, but I do not - of course - consider my views, necessarily, as the final word or INDEFEASIBLE. This applies to other posters too.

Thank you for your fellowship and the opportunity to continue to learn and grow in the truth. I do appreciate that. However, please respect my free will and integrity as a Christian and do not attempt to “force” me to adopt positions against my conscience.
My reason for pursuing this discussion has been that I strongly desire that you and I may have perfectly fulfilled between us the words of Jesus, that we may be one as He and His Father are one :). His will is for the perfect and total unity of His Church, and to that end He prayed for us 2,000 years ago, probably foreseeing instances like the one you and we are involved in right now! “Sanctify them with the truth,” he prayed, “your word is truth.” That, I believe, is the framework of our discussion.

Unity with and in the Body and Blood of Christ, the highest joy of Christian life, is what I so want us to share, and that’s why I’ve been talking at such length. Paul wrote, “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread (1 Cor. 10:17).” The Body is the ultimate expression of Christian unity. But if that unity never appears between you and me before we rise to Heaven, I’ll take friendship alone :). We can love one another whatever we believe.

I think talking about the doctrinal issues we’ve been going over is worthwhile. The issues are so important to living Christ. However, it is true that this kind of discussion can get heated and with lots of people with tons of facts talking to one person, it can obviously get overwhelming for the one (you). I’m sorry it got like that!

I’m glad you’re back! 🙂 I recognize your time constraints. I’d still appreciate it if you’d read all my posts addressed to you and think about them; I put a lot of effort into them. If you don’t want to respond, don’t, except to explain that you don’t know what your position is, or just want to think about it more . . . I’d like it if you’d continue to tell me (as you’ve done in many previous posts) why you aren’t responding so that I’d know.

But because I’d like replies to what I say, please don’t feel rushed! I’d far rather have you respond to my posts slowly, over a few days, than have it instantly but terse and failing to respond to key points.

Anyway . . . well, I’m really glad the Spirit changed your mind about leaving! 🙂
 
Hi Cinette,

I love your devotion to Christ! Thank you.

I need to give what you say here more thought. My initial thought and thinking, however, is that our Lord’s infinite love and mercies are not tied EXCLUSIVELY to the Sacraments. This would be a key and abiding principle of my spirituality and committment to Christ.

God bless you, Craig
This is Catholic teaching also. God is not bound by the sacraments. They are avenues of His grace, but His grace is boundless. 👍
 
“The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church and so determines which ideas or doctrines truly reflect God’s will.”

You are doing here what Lief does on this particular issue, viz: you are ASSUMING the propriety of the so-called MAGISTERIUM without any proof or evidence.

I ask, politely - where is the word MAGISTERIUM found in the Bible?

You NEED to project this idea and concept into your reasonings to justify and support a theory. In my opinion, the Bible knows of no such thing.

Can you supply me with any hard proof?

God bless, In Christ Craig
Magesterium is a Latin rendering that has passed into the Roman Catholic language. The Eastern Catholics do not use this term. However, all Catholics believe in the teaching authority appointed by Christ.

Jesus hand picked and trained the 12:

John 15:15-17
"I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. 16 You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. 17 I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another. "

He made known to them everything. He then commissioned them.

Matt 28:18-20
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Their authority is based on His, and extends to "teaching them (disciples) to obey all that He has commanded. He places them in charge of the teaching. This is reflected in the Latin term “magisterium”, or teaching authority.
 
Code:
At this time, I do not see that Sacred Tradition is on an equal authoritative level with the inerrant scriptures.
What do you think happened to the infallible Apostolic teaching that produced the Scriptures?
I believe that God in His infallible foreknowledge and wisdom, PRESERVED His words in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS (not in any one single manuscript or in any one particular translation of the Bible.)
This is very Catholic. 👍
Therefore, my desire is always to bow to the ONE MEANING that the texts of scripture point to.
What makes you think there is only one?
This is why I hold to SOLA SCRIPTURA which, of necessity, rules out Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium acting as a “three-legged stool” of authority.
Yes I agree. The creation of some new authoritative doctrine was required to reject the authority Jesus appointed over HIs Church.
 
There is not a SMIDGEON of evidence for an ECCLESSIASTICAL HIERARCHY or an INFALLIBLE MAGISTERIUM.
Let’s take a couple steps back.

Tell me:

“I have written something to the church; but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority. 10 So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing in spreading false charges against us.” 3 John 9-10

What authority does the Apostle imagine that he has? Why does he seem to think his “authority” should matter more than that of Diotrephes?
You have merely ASSUMED that there is such an established hierarchy mentioned here. The plain matter of the fact is that there is no such entity in view, in my opinion. Therefore, you have failed to lay the important groundwork about the ecclessiastical hierarchy.

Cheers, In Christ Craig
No, it is not an assumption. This is what was handed down to us from the Apostles.
 
This is a good question. I apologize for diving in so late, but I must say, Craig, your open mindedness and willingness to learn are refreshing. 👍

I think clarity between the concepts of original sin, and personal sin will make the answer to your question clear. Humans were not created sinful. God created Adam and Eve with free will, and they chose to disobey Him. The penalty of their choice falls upon all of us who are born after them. This death penalty is our inheritance as children of Adam. Only grace can save us from this, which is why Jesus says that those who don’t believe in Him are condemned already. We are already under a death sentence. Jesus saved Mary from that death sentence by His Grace before she was born. The Catholic Church teaches that John the Baptist was also saved before birth. When Mary came to Elizabeth, the Spirit filled John, and he leaped in her womb. He was filled with the spirit “from His mother’s womb”. This tells us that the recipient of salvation does not necesarily have to make a personal profession of faith.
I think Craig has already respondesd to this in his post #208 and he does get that this is possible through God’s grace.
 
a DEEP AND INDESCRIBABLE PEACE HAS ENTERED MY SOUL.

Praise God!

Blessings, In Christ
Vunderabar!! I am so happy.

I have been praying for peace for you as I felt your wearinesss yesterday,

Praised be to our most loving God.!
 
Sometimes I cannot help but wonder if God put theologians in this world just to test our faith and our patience.
Hi snowy, I know you are saying this in jest but if there is one thing that I have truly come to appreciate is that theology, exegisis, etc. is very important.

Some are given a childlike faith and that will be all that will be asked of them. But God put on this earth great minds like St Thomas et al, because he has also created people who will need logical reasoning to come into faith.

A friend of mine made me listen to a rather IMO obnoxious standup comedian named George Carlin whose argument against religion was that it is not rational and all those who believe are stupid.

And there are many like that. These days, there are more logical agnostics and atheists than ever.

Faith and Reason are not mutally exclusive.

A Catholic friend of mine also dabbles in New Age and she sees nothing wrong with it. Her reasoning is quite convincing to someone who has not read up on these things. The only way I could rebutt her was because I have read up on them and have tried to figure it out myself as well.

Truth is very important. After all, Jesus said He is the Truth.
Do they really need to figure out whether the Trinity is consubstantiated or subconstantiated in order to love their neighbor?
The topic of transubstantiation and consubstantiation was never about the Trinity. It was about the Eucharist.

But I do agree, the first premise on any Theological discussion should always be that GOD IS LOVE.
 
This is a good question. I apologize for diving in so late, but I must say, Craig, your open mindedness and willingness to learn are refreshing. 👍

I think clarity between the concepts of original sin, and personal sin will make the answer to your question clear. Humans were not created sinful. God created Adam and Eve with free will, and they chose to disobey Him. The penalty of their choice falls upon all of us who are born after them. This death penalty is our inheritance as children of Adam. Only grace can save us from this, which is why Jesus says that those who don’t believe in Him are condemned already. We are already under a death sentence. Jesus saved Mary from that death sentence by His Grace before she was born. The Catholic Church teaches that John the Baptist was also saved before birth. When Mary came to Elizabeth, the Spirit filled John, and he leaped in her womb. He was filled with the spirit “from His mother’s womb”. This tells us that the recipient of salvation does not necesarily have to make a personal profession of faith.
Hi guanophore,

I found this post to be instructional and most edifying.

I find myself to be in agreement with it.

God bless you, In Christ Craig
 
Help me understand why you say this.
Hi guanophore, (In reply to Post 335)

In Post 335 you assert, in response to my original statement:

"I hold to a semi-pelagian view of human nature and this, of course, is one area that I share with Roman Catholicism. In other words, humans are ‘depraved’; not “totally depraved” as in Calvinism. The human sinner can make moral choices and is responsible to turn to God; however, the human sinner cannot effect REGENERATION. Only the Holy Spirit can grant EFFICACIOUS GRACE. Craig

Help me understand why you say this.

MY REPLY TO YOU:

Only the Holy Spirit can effect REGENERATION or THE NEW BIRTH, by EFFICACIOUS GRACE.

By this word Efficacious Grace I mean to convey the idea that only the loving, tender and merciful work of the Holy Spirit can overcome the natural stubborness and pride of our human hearts, and lead us to heavenly glory.

God bless, In Christ Craig
 
This is a boat of fishermen. Some of the apostles were fishermen too. Jesus uses this to make a prophecy.

Matthew 4:17-20. “From that time Jesus began to proclaim, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.’ As He walked by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea - for they were fishermen. And He said to them, ‘Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.’ Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.”

The reference to the Kingdom fits too, because Jesus compares the Kingdom to a net.

Matthew 13:47-50. “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and caught fish of every kind; when it was full, they drew it ashore, sat down, and put the good into baskets but threw out the bad. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Luke’s Gospel Story is a lesson about the future. The Lord sends His Apostles out on to the lake in a boat, and in that boat there are many roles to fill. There is the captain, there are men to row, men to mind the sail - there are men to cast the nets, to haul in the fish - and when the boat returns to shore, there are men and women to clean the fish, to salt some of the catch for preserving, and to take the rest for cooking, so that everyone may feast, and their hunger be assuaged.

This is not the only time in the Gospels, when the boat, the fishing boat, the Bark of Peter figures in Our Lord’s teaching to His Apostles. One time, while He sleeps, a storm rages, putting the fear of death into the Apostles. But Our Lord wakes up and calms the storm. Another time, His desire to be with His men moves Him to walk upon the waters, and He challenges Peter to do the same. Both times, Our Lord chides His men about their lack of faith - for if we have faith in Him, in His care for us, then no storm will overturn the boat in which we sail, and no water will open to swallow us up in darkness.

The boat, dear friends, is the Church, and Peter is its captain - but always above, more powerful than the storm or the deep, and always ready to provide the food we need, is the Holy Spirit, the protecting arm of the Lord, the invincible strength, against which, as He promised, the gates of Hell will not prevail. And in the boat and upon the shore waiting are the men and women of the Church - bishops, priests, deacons, religious, lay men and women, each with their function, each with their work to make the boat work, to haul in the catch, and to provide for the needs of all whose life depends upon the boat, and the boat’s payload.

In the following Gospel Story of Luke, note that of the two available boats, Jesus selected Simon’s boat. Here the spotlight is on Simon Peter, who would later lead the early Church, but his companions are always in the shadows, ready to help. Simon’s boat is seen as a symbol of the pilgrim Church on earth. Jesus gets into Peter’s boat in order to teach the crowds; and from the Bark of Peter, the Church, He continues to teach the whole world. The vastness of the catch is a symbol of the many nations to whom the gospel will be preached…

Luke 5:1-11. As the crowd pressed in on Jesus to hear the word of God, He saw two boats moored by the side of the lake; the fishermen had disembarked and were washing their nets. He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to pull out a short distance from the shore; then, remaining seated, He continued to teach the crowds from the boat. When He had finished speaking He said to Simon, “Put out into deep water and lower your nets for a catch.” Simon answered, “Master, we have been hard at it all night long and have caught nothing; but if You say so, I will lower the nets.” Upon doing this they caught such a great number of fish that their nets were at the breaking point. They signaled to their mates in the other boat to come and help them. These came, and together they filled the two boats until they nearly sank.

At the sight of this, Simon Peter fell at the knees of Jesus saying, “Leave me, Lord. I am a sinful man.” For indeed, amazement at the catch they had made seized him and all his shipmates, as well as James and John, Zebedee’s sons, who were partners with Simon. Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid. From now on you will be catching men.” With that they brought their boats to land, left everything, and became His followers.
Thanks Tom,

A fascinating presentation and I will refer to this over and over again.

Blessings, Craig
 
My reason for pursuing this discussion has been that I strongly desire that you and I may have perfectly fulfilled between us the words of Jesus, that we may be one as He and His Father are one :). His will is for the perfect and total unity of His Church, and to that end He prayed for us 2,000 years ago, probably foreseeing instances like the one you and we are involved in right now! “Sanctify them with the truth,” he prayed, “your word is truth.” That, I believe, is the framework of our discussion.

Unity with and in the Body and Blood of Christ, the highest joy of Christian life, is what I so want us to share, and that’s why I’ve been talking at such length. Paul wrote, “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread (1 Cor. 10:17).” The Body is the ultimate expression of Christian unity. But if that unity never appears between you and me before we rise to Heaven, I’ll take friendship alone :). We can love one another whatever we believe.

I think talking about the doctrinal issues we’ve been going over is worthwhile. The issues are so important to living Christ. However, it is true that this kind of discussion can get heated and with lots of people with tons of facts talking to one person, it can obviously get overwhelming for the one (you). I’m sorry it got like that!

I’m glad you’re back! 🙂 I recognize your time constraints. I’d still appreciate it if you’d read all my posts addressed to you and think about them; I put a lot of effort into them. If you don’t want to respond, don’t, except to explain that you don’t know what your position is, or just want to think about it more . . . I’d like it if you’d continue to tell me (as you’ve done in many previous posts) why you aren’t responding so that I’d know.

But because I’d like replies to what I say, please don’t feel rushed! I’d far rather have you respond to my posts slowly, over a few days, than have it instantly but terse and failing to respond to key points.

Anyway . . . well, I’m really glad the Spirit changed your mind about leaving! 🙂
Thanks Lief,

I appreciate the comments and the friendship in Christ there is between us. You write:

“The Body is the ultimate expression of Christian unity. But if that unity never appears between you and me before we rise to Heaven, I’ll take friendship alone :). We can love one another whatever we believe.”

I agree with your statement and give praise to God that you think like that.

I believe there is only one post of yours that I haven’t responded to - the one on Acts 15. I will reply to this in a few days time.

Cheers, In Christ Craig
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top