To Mormons: Did the gates of Hell prevail against the 'Church' when your president taught false doctrine?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nanotwerp
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh my heck. I’m starting to think you are a troll.

Please, read something besides Mormon apologetics. Look up the Osiris Myth, Ba and the gods of Egypt. Of course it is known what is there because there are multiple examples of the EXACT SAME THING.

Which is more plausible, based on real scholarship, and aligns to reality? Is it a retelling of one of a sacred and common story of Egyptian cosmology, or is it what Smith made up off the top of his head? :hmmm:
I didn’t get my reasoning from Mormon apologetic resources. I’m able to see that in order to come up with the interpretation that you have, you have to fill in the blanks. That’s common sense since the information is missing. If you fill in the blanks wrong, then you have the wrong answer.

If Smith made it up off the top of his head, he did a pretty good job of it. Personally, I don’t care where he got it from. I think the Book of Abraham is an awesome book. It’s obvious that Abraham was not just some nomad tending sheep that God happened to like. I like knowing the reason Abraham left his father’s house. I think it’s important to know why Abraham was favored of God, because knowing it makes it something we can emulate expecting similar results.
 
I’ve already address those changes to the BoM. Those changes have not changed doctrine, though non-Mormons have twisted it so it looks like it. So, lets talk about the changes to the Bible. There’s the NIV, the New Living Translation (translated from what??), English Standard Version, New American Standard Version, Kang James Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, International Standard Version, NET Bible, GOD’S WORD Translation, Jubilee Bible 2000, King James 2000 Bible, American King James Version and I could go on. Those are the ones from today. I wouldn’t even try to address the changes that have been cataloged during the last 2000 years. I don’t even want to start on Orthodox and Ethiopian versions.

Who had license to make those changes? Didn’t God protect his word and deliver it exactly as He wanted it? He who adds or takes away from this book… Yeah.
Different translations do not necessarily indicate a bad translation. Though I can agree some translations can be pretty bad.

I see I didn’t get my meaning clearly across. As a Catholic, I believe the OT and NT to contain the Word of God. So the Word is present among us in several ways. Scripture, the Church itself, the Eucharist, and of course the Person of Jesus Christ. They are all together one Word, as they are all from the same source.

Mormons want it both ways. Criticizing the Catholic Church for protecting the word of God, and now here you are criticizing that it is not protected.

I trust in the Word of God, Jesus, who promised to not leave us as orphans and guide us to all truth. I trust the a word of God, as found in scripture. I trust the Word of God, as found in the Church Jesus established during His ministry. I trust the Word of God, made present at every Mass.

Why do you lack trust in the Word of God?
 
Whenever I hear this idea, I always feel bad for the Orthodox. They are either marginalized or simply ignored, or worse, not known.

😦
Most Mormons don’t really know about our Orthodox brethren. They couch it as it’s either them or the Catholics when they should also include the Orthodox.
 
I’ve already address those changes to the BoM. Those changes have not changed doctrine, though non-Mormons have twisted it so it looks like it. So, lets talk about the changes to the Bible. There’s the NIV, the New Living Translation (translated from what??), English Standard Version, New American Standard Version, Kang James Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, International Standard Version, NET Bible, GOD’S WORD Translation, Jubilee Bible 2000, King James 2000 Bible, American King James Version and I could go on. Those are the ones from today. I wouldn’t even try to address the changes that have been cataloged during the last 2000 years. I don’t even want to start on Orthodox and Ethiopian versions.

Who had license to make those changes? Didn’t God protect his word and deliver it exactly as He wanted it? He who adds or takes away from this book… Yeah.
We have all these translations, because the original language was pretty ancient; unlike the English Mormon Bible.

I dunno, but I just find it strange to hold this much trust in this one American man who has no legs to stand on. It seems like you trust him over the Bible itself, to be frank.

What is it about the Mormon faith that has any authority greater than a Church of apostles? Do you think it is normal to have more faith in a local American who created his own religion based on lies than apostles themselves? Is it odd to you that some verses of the Book of Mormon are quoted almost word for word with the King James Bible? Does it bother you that you can’t actually trust your church leaders, because they change beliefs so often? Does it bother you that you must believe that God was a man with finite power, when the Bible clearly states otherwise; or, that marriage isn’t in heaven?

Or do you choose to be of ignorance, so you can hang on to the faith of lies that you have?

The Catholic Church is a sturdy pillar of truth, yet the Mormon Church is a pillar of lies that gets reconstructed from time to time, so it can still stand.
 
BrotherJared…

In response to your post … Are you implying then that the construct of your religion is that it is competitive and invalidating to ours?..

A belief system based on me vs you is not about God but about pride.

What happened to Christianity for 1800 years after the Lord’s earthly mission was fulfilled?

Where are any documents of what happened to the Christians after the last Book of Revelations? Where are they?

If we cannot find out anything…then Christ was not really Who He said He was and that He didn’t establish any church either.

Christianity is about dying to self…today at Mass, All Saints, the focus of the Gospel are the beatitudes…and this is where all the saints of the Catholic Church have placed their focus in their desire to live as saints in the Lord.

Today at Mass I didn’t hear anything indicating we need Joseph Smith to understand the Beatitudes – the blueprint to be a saint.

I find the Gospel of Christ so complete and all encompassing that leads to Him and a deeper life with Him…and being corrected at Mass by the readings and Gospel without the priest taking me aside to tell me ‘where it is at’…that I cannot help but think we really don’t need Joseph Smith either.

I think the construct of Mormonism and its ongoing obsession with the Catholic Church is that it wants one upmanship on it…it wants to take the place of the Catholic Church.
 
Off topic. What is a troll? It appears to be a derogatory remark which I think is entirely inappropriate and mean spirited. Please explain.
 
BrotherJared…

In response to your post … Are you implying then that the construct of your religion is that it is competitive and invalidating to ours?..

A belief system based on me vs you is not about God but about pride.

What happened to Christianity for 1800 years after the Lord’s earthly mission was fulfilled?

Where awhatre any documents of what happened to the Christians after the last Book of Revelations? Where are they?

If we cannot find out anything…then Christ was not really Who He said He was and that He didn’t establish any church either.

Christianity is about dying to self…today at Mass, All Saints, the focus of the Gospel are the beatitudes…and this is where all the saints of the Catholic Church have placed their focus in their desire to live as saints in the Lord.

Today at Mass I didn’t hear anything indicating we need Joseph Smith to understand the Beatitudes – the blueprint to be a saint.

I find the Gospel of Christ so complete and all encompassing that leads to Him and a deeper life with Him…and being corrected at Mass by the readings and Gospel without the priest taking me aside to tell me ‘where it is at’…that I cannot help but think we really don’t need Joseph Smith either.

I think the construct of Mormonism and its ongoing obsession with the Catholic Church is that it wants one upmanship on it…it wants to take the place of the Catholic Church.
what obsession?
 
…the New Living Translation (translated from what??)
Introduction to the New Living Translation:
The Texts behind the New Living Translation

The Old Testament translators used the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible as represented in Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (1977), with its extensive system of textual notes; this is an update of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica (Stuttgart, 1937). The translators also further compared the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Septuagint and other Greek manuscripts, the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Syriac Peshitta, the Latin Vulgate, and any other versions or manuscripts that shed light on the meaning of difficult passages.

The New Testament translators used the two standard editions of the Greek New Testament: the Greek New Testament, published by the United Bible Societies (UBS, fourth revised edition, 1993), and Novum Testamentum Graece, edited by Nestle and Aland (NA, twenty-seventh edition, 1993). These two editions, which have the same text but differ in punctuation and textual notes, represent, for the most part, the best in modern textual scholarship. However, in cases where strong textual or other scholarly evidence supported the decision, the translators sometimes chose to differ from the UBS and NA Greek texts and followed variant readings found in other ancient witnesses. Significant textual variants of this sort are always noted in the textual notes of the New Living Translation.
Each book was translated by its own team of ancient language/bible scholars from a variety of Christian backgrounds, including Catholic, then each draft was independently reviewed by another team who made suggestions for renderings of difficult passages, etc. and then the final draft was approved by a team of editors, also made up of well-known and accomplished bible scholars and ancient language linguists.

Translations are made and updated as the target language evolves. Groups that are bound to very old translations (like the KJV) are prone to misinterpret passages because the English we use has changed so much from King James times (@ 500 years ago). And the KJV just plain tedious to read in some places, especially in the OT. Making the bible accessible to modern readers is a good thing, no?

The NLT is a wonderful translation. It’s rendering of the OT is especially enjoyable and useful. They even change the Hebrew calendar date references, which few people comprehend, into modern calendar-style dates that everyone can understand. And the Catholic Reference Edition that I own has extensive footnotes, cross-references, verse-finder and indexes. It is just a great bible for pleasure-reading and for use in comparing to other translations for study.

I don’t know about you, but I own 7 different bible translations, including the KJV (LDS Missionary Edition). I always check several translations when trying to fully understand a passage of scripture. I find it very helpful.

Don’t criticize what you don’t know about.

BoJ, your desperate grasping at any straw to defend Joseph Smith’s immorality sounds just like me about a year before I left the LDS faith. Whether you realize it or not, you are here to find the courage to leave what you have come to know is false.

I can see your house of cards falling down around you. Let it fall and enter into the freedom and joy that is the Catholic faith.

You won’t have to expend so much energy trying to defend the indefensible, and all that cognitive dissonance you are carrying around will melt away. You will feel as if the weight of the world has been lifted from your shoulders. I know - I experienced it for myself.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Off topic. What is a troll? It appears to be a derogatory remark which I think is entirely inappropriate and mean spirited. Please explain.
I take it you are new to the internet and internet experience if you have never heard the term “troll”?
I also assume you are a much older gentleman that I first expected. 70’s perhaps?
 
I take it you are new to the internet and internet experience if you have never heard the term “troll”?
I also assume you are a much older gentleman that I first expected. 70’s perhaps?
I think that post sealed his troll identity, to be honest. I rarely encounter someone who has literally asked for a definition while subsequently being on the Internet.
 
I think that post sealed his troll identity, to be honest. I rarely encounter someone who has literally asked for a definition while subsequently being on the Internet.
I know.
What a strange question to ask. My mother in 77, and she knows what a troll is. 🤷
 
(He was on, looked at the thread according to his profile when he was on, and had no reply. Hmmm)
 
I didn’t get my reasoning from Mormon apologetic resources. I’m able to see that in order to come up with the interpretation that you have, you have to fill in the blanks. That’s common sense since the information is missing. If you fill in the blanks wrong, then you have the wrong answer.

If Smith made it up off the top of his head, he did a pretty good job of it. Personally, I don’t care where he got it from. I think the Book of Abraham is an awesome book. It’s obvious that Abraham was not just some nomad tending sheep that God happened to like. I like knowing the reason Abraham left his father’s house. I think it’s important to know why Abraham was favored of God, because knowing it makes it something we can emulate expecting similar results.
If you have a document with missing parts, but you know that document has other copies available elsewhere then it’s quite easy to fill in the blanks correctly. That’s the case with the facsimile, it’s Smith who filled in the blanks wrong, not all the Egyptologists.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top