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Eden
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valient Lucy:
Bingo! Thank you, valient Lucy!
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kujo313
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Someone sees “Mary” in a business window, and hundreds of Catholics gather around and stop traffic. Many of then sit with their prayer beads, while others hold a candle virgil.
Some one sees “Mary” in a grilled cheese sandwich, and thousands of dollars are paid for it on ebay.
“Mary” appears somewhere, many people say “I just HAVE to go there!”
St. Dominic was “instructed” by “Mary”, so tradition asserts, to preach the Rosary among the people as an antidote to heresy and sin. “Antidote”?
“Rosary” (according to the Catholic Encyclopedia) “is a certain form of prayer wherein we say fifteen decades or tens of Hail Marys with an Our Father between each ten,…”
The “Catechism of the Council of Trent” says Catholics should piously and suppliantly have recourse to her (Mary) in order that by her intercession she may reconcile God with us sinners and obtain for us the blessing we need both for this present life and for the life which has no end."
“Reconcilliation” without the shedding of blood? How can that be? Jesus IS the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
I see only one Way: Jesus. Any other way is a thief and a robber.
Mary didn’t put herself to that position, man did. She was never called, or was qualified, for that position.
Take that one Way. Don’t worry about who showed you the Way, just take it.
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kujo313
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Mary is just one subject. It seems that we go back and forth enough to keep us busy for a long, long time.
Instead of going back and forth, I’d rather be worhsipping the Lord in song right now.
Peace in Christ
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Eden
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Did you see how much the “Jesus Pancake” went for on ebay?
The day the Pope approves a vision of Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich and “images of Mary” in an oil stain is the day I answer this kind of post.
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Eden
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O.K. See you when you get back!
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Mickey
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Since you seem to ignore what Sacred Scripture and Scared Tradition says about Our Lady, let’s see what Martin Luther says. You identified him as someone whose teachings you follow and adhere to:
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin.
She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil.
The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity.
(Martin Luther)
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Dorothy
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And, then there is John Calvin on Mary:
“It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of His Son, granted her the highest honor…Elizabeth calls Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.”
from Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunscheig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.
“It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of His Son, granted her the highest honor…Elizabeth calls Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.”
from Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunscheig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.
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Dorothy
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And, Zwingli said:
“I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin.”
from - Zwingli Opera, v. 1, p. 424
I think most Protestants are not aware of what the reformers said about Mary.
“I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin.”
from - Zwingli Opera, v. 1, p. 424
I think most Protestants are not aware of what the reformers said about Mary.
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Steadfast
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This gets a big fat, “so what” from this Protestant.
The point is that the belief that Mary remained a virgin after bearing Christ is a pious opinion which may be held in good faith by believers since the Bible nowhere clearly denies it and it doesn’t militate against any other clearly revealed doctrine.
Only fundies deny this and they do so incoherently.
The problem arises when a CHURCH begins dogmatically binding Christian consciences to such biblically unsupportable pious opinions under pain of incurring damnable sin.
None of the Reformers ever did this.
The point is that the belief that Mary remained a virgin after bearing Christ is a pious opinion which may be held in good faith by believers since the Bible nowhere clearly denies it and it doesn’t militate against any other clearly revealed doctrine.
Only fundies deny this and they do so incoherently.
The problem arises when a CHURCH begins dogmatically binding Christian consciences to such biblically unsupportable pious opinions under pain of incurring damnable sin.
None of the Reformers ever did this.
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Dorothy
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It’s not a problem for Catholics because we believe the Church defines doctrine under the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit.
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Steadfast
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Yes, I know…
But why should I do the same?
And anyhow, the point seemed to be, “See how “Papistical” those Reformers really were, snrk, snrk.”.
Which completely misses the point that they weren’t “Papistical” at all since they didn’t seek to bind others to their own opinions.
But why should I do the same?
And anyhow, the point seemed to be, “See how “Papistical” those Reformers really were, snrk, snrk.”.
Which completely misses the point that they weren’t “Papistical” at all since they didn’t seek to bind others to their own opinions.
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kujo313
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We can go round and around about Mary and what Jesus meant when He said “Who are my brothers?” (brothers or cousins?) But that should not be our focus. Our focus should be on Jesus and being His brother or mother.
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kujo313
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“opions”? please tell.
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reneeville
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Here’s a great source re: Commandments…and who did what when…
fisheaters.com/10commandments.html
believers:
fisheaters.com/10commandments.html
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Mickey
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No, I don’t think that is the point at all. You are overreacting.
Ps–I don’t think there is such a word as “Papistical”–snrk, snrk.
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reneeville
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The focus IS Jesus…and only Jesus. His mother…my mother, your mother is to be revered (Honor thy Father and Mother…) not worshipped.
May God bless you as you continue on your quest.
kujo313:
May God bless you as you continue on your quest.
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DARichards
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WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING ON STATING THAT CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD CONTINUALLY THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE???
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Rachel_Malloy
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Please- This is the last warning…
Take the Marian debate to another thread. This thread is specific for Protestant declarations as to why they aren’t Catholic.
Thanks!
Rachel
Take the Marian debate to another thread. This thread is specific for Protestant declarations as to why they aren’t Catholic.
Thanks!
Rachel
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St.Eric
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Rachel Malloy:
THANK YOU RACHEL. I am sick of this topic on this thread.
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Doreen
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Were you there? Do you know that there was no outrage? See?
You have sided with a “side” of the outrage…and therefore, you only follow what that “side” maintains as correct theology.
If there was no outrage…then there’d today be “One Church”…but there is not just “one church” as you define “church”…but many.
What I am showing by the definition of “tradition” is that there is clearly a difference of opinion about which “tradition” was to be continued…passed down…
I have asked the Lord to show me what is His greater truth on all these questions (especially regarding the many sacraments the Catholics do as acts of penance, etc…)
He led me to Colossians 2:6-23
Paul is writing about the churches who have become “luke warm”…as in the Laodiceans…
I don’t have time to cite all of what Paul says, but he’s clearly stating that we have been given the fullness of Christ…in Him we were circumcised by the putting of of our sinful nature…with a circumcision done by Christ…
All the old covenants were a shadow of the new, and the new is Christ sacrificed once for all…risen to overcome sin and death.
He’s warning against following rules that are based on human commands and teachings…so clearly there was confusion at the very start of “the church” as to what “acts” were considered necessary for salvation.
He is not saying we can do whatever we please, because in Chapter 3, he says “put to death…whatever belongs to your earthly nature.” …later “clothe yourselves with compassion,…”
It’s not as if the protestant thinks they can do as they please…perhaps SOME do so…just as SOME Catholics have little visible fruit of “circumcision”…
This is where I become troubled by the Catholic theology…I have yet to separate the practices of the church from those mentioned in Colossians 2:8…
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than Christ."
See, for me all the sacraments were specific hoops I had to jump through and once I did those things, I was okay with God. I know that is not what is taught…and I know that was not the intention when these things became a part of the doctrine…the point is, though that they became a stumbling block for me, because I just understood if I did a, b, and c…then I am going to be accepted by God.
I didn’t learn about the Holy Spirit…I didn’t understand that without the indwelling presence of Christ in the Spirit, I was never going to change…never going to move away from my sin.
In the Catholic church, I thought it was just expected that I would continue to sin and while I know that isn’t the intent of the teachings…that’s what I understood…because I was never told the Holy Spirit was God’s gift to me once I turned my life over.
I was a “luke warm” believer…turning to God when the heat was on, but otherwise living as I pleased.
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