To Protestants: why do you do this?

[Church_Militant]

I don’t think thats really a fair summary of Protestant beliefs. Its not because Protestants think you’re wrong, stupid for believing what you do, and really just need to be saved from yourselves.

A more accurate summary would be that Protestants feel that Catholics are missing one crucial element to eternal salvation, and that is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Its not condescendsion, but a sincere concern for your eternal salvation.

Evangelism is a scary thing to do, and its people who have a genuine concern for the salvation of others that are willing to put their fear aside and talk to people about it. I won’t defend people who are rude in their evangelism efforts, whether they’re talking to Catholics or anyone else- but I will defend those who have honest and true intentions.

Overall, please don’t take it as a criticism or insult, but see it for the true concern that it is.

Becka

Hi Becka,
Would you please read this article and then tell me if you agree and why or why not?
May the peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[Church_Militant]

I was baptized as a Catholic as an infant, went to CCD classes up to 8th grade, was confirmed, then went to Catholic high school and Catholic college. All the while, I never understood my faith. I fell away after college and was not going to any church. A Catholic friend of mine took me to a Christian music festival because he had a friend whose band was playing. There were representatives from many Christian churches at the festival (Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran). Somebody from the Baptist church gave me a Bible (KJV). At the time, I was searching but unaware of what I really wanted. For some reason, I decided to read the Bible, which I had never done before. I read it all the way through. I did not become Baptist; rather, I finally understood what the Catholic church had been teaching me my whole life. I went to a priest, confessed my sin and rejoined the Catholic church. I found that there was nothing in the Scripture that contradicted the teachings of the Catholic church. Actually, the Scripture clarified everything I had been taught (and this was from reading a Protestant Bible). Since then, I have joined a Bible study group (adult Sunday school class at my Catholic parish), volunteered at a mission meal for the poor which is ecumenical (at a Methodist parish, with Catholics, Lutherans, and Presbyterians helping out), and become an EMHC. I can say that I am a born again Catholic because I have understood the need for a personal relationship with Jesus through active participation in the Catholic church. I now own many translations of the Bible (NAB, NRSV-CE, KJV, Douay-Rheims, and NASB). I use all of them in my Bible studies. Currently, at my parish, we are studying Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians. In addition to the Bible study, I also read the Bible daily on my own. I like to read it through all the way at least once a year. I respect the Baptists because they are responsible for me returning to the Catholic faith. Actually, in terms of hostile people, I have had more problems with “cafeteria Catholics” than with Protestants. Yes, I agree that in terms of moral issues such as right to life, the proper roles of women in ministry, and the sinfulness of homosexual activity, Catholics and evangelicals do have much more in common than many of the so-called mainline denominations.

Bravo! Very well said! Glory Be To God!:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[becka01101]

Hi Becka,
Would you please read this article and then tell me if you agree and why or why not?
May the peace of the Lord be always with you.

To be honest, I’ve always stayed out of the water baptism argument within the Protestant church. The article is interesting, it makes an excellent case for water baptism- I bookmarked it, I’d like to show it to a Protestant friend, she mentioned that topic a few days ago.

Am I saying that Catholics do not have eternal salvation? Absolutely not. What I am trying to do though is clarify why some Protestants feel the need to evangelize towards Catholics. It comes down to something that I have an issue with in the Evangelical church- the heart change that happens when you’re saved. The claim is that Catholics go through the motions and have the actions down, but don’t have a heart change. The problem I have with this is that I think Evangelicals can have the heart change, but continue to live their sinful life without feeling the need to change, because they are forgiven. They claim that Catholics think works get them into heaven- but works that are a result of God’s grace working in your life is an element that I think is missing in the Evangelical church, because they’re scared that they might be accused of preaching works over grace.

I think that got a little off the topic of your original question to me, but to answer it- reading through the article once, I did not see anything that I disagreed with. Its hard to argue with something thats backed up, multiple times, in Scripture. Thank you for sharing it with me.
Becka

 

[Tonks40]

I think I understand what you’re saying, becka01101. If I traded places and was an on-fire Evangelical Christian, I could see how I would come to the conclusion that Catholics appear to not have a personal relationship with Christ. I would glimpse into a church, see the parishioners, see what they do, and without the understanding that we Catholics have on worship, think, “oh, they’re just going thru the motions…they’re not showing ME that they’ve got a close personal relationship with our Lord! They look like zombies to me!”

Catholic spirituality is much deeper, and sometime even subtle, to one outside the church that is only used to looking at the surface of faith. We keep our Lord Jesus in our hearts, our minds, and our actions of love always.

 

[becka01101]

Thank you for your sincere concern. As far as I know, we Catholics do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus is the center of our Catholic faith. Even when we ask for Mary’s intercession, to pray for us, Mary is always pointing to Jesus.

Our prayers such as Rosary, is all the way pointing to Jesus. The four mysteries of Rosary are the summary of Jesus’ entire life, and all the Rosary mystery verses are quotes from Bible. They are completely Christ centered.

Where did you get the misconception that we don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus?

Its based on works vs. grace. As I said in the reply to Church Militant, its because there (from the outside) seems to be more of a focus on works than on God’s saving grace. I know its not true, but thats what it looks like from the outside.

I believe I’m referencing the book Born Fundamentalist Born-Again Christian (to give credit where credit is due!) when I use this as an example, but its very appropriate. When at the funeral of an Evangelical, if someone where to speculate on the status of that person’s salvation, the response would be more likely to be, “Yes, I know he was saved.” Contrast that to a funeral of a Catholic- with the same speculation, the response would quite likely be, “Yes, he lived a good life.” David Currie goes on to explain why its simple wording that causes so much confusion in this situation. In fact, I heard it myself at two Catholic funerals I was at this winter.

Its just a misconception that has never been completely put to rest.

Becka

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi again!
Thank you for your kind response.

I’m happy to have been of some small service.

I also have to agree with you in your assessment, and it’s something that I often find I have an issue with. Some folks approach a Catholic as a target for evangelism simply because we acknowledge being a Catholic and that grinds me a bit.

Your point concerning good works and a repentent life-style are very well stated and of course I agree.

To a Catholic, (or I supposed any rational believer) I think the following analogy sums it all up.

1. What do I believe about the water that falls out of the sky sometimes. (AKA “rain”)
2. I believe that it falls on me and I get wet.
3. Because I believe #1 about # 2 what action do I take?
4. I remain inside when rain falls
5. I carry an unmbrella
6. I wear a raincoat and a cap
7. I go out and resign myself to get wet

In other words, because I firmly believe # 2, I am forced to deal with that belief by some active response.

This is true of anything that anyone really believes.

Anything that one really believes will affect one’s actions/behavior. If not…one probably doesn’t really believe whatever it is.

Now, on a different note:
Am I out to evangelize non-Catholics? No.
I’m out to evangelize everybody!

Our Lord left us a command in Matthew 28:18-20
18: And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

 

[becka01101]

Catholic spirituality is much deeper, and sometime even subtle, to one outside the church that is only used to looking at the surface of faith. We keep our Lord Jesus in our hearts, our minds, and our actions of love always.

Exactly. And that is very hard for Evangelicals to understand!

Becka

 

[becka01101]

Hi again!
Thank you for your kind response.

I’m happy to have been of some small service.

I also have to agree with you in your assessment, and it’s something that I often find I have an issue with. Some folks approach a Catholic as a target for evangelism simply because we acknowledge being a Catholic and that grinds me a bit.

Your point concerning good works and a repentent life-style are very well stated and of course I agree.

To a Catholic, (or I supposed any rational believer) I think the following analogy sums it all up.

1. What do I believe about the water that falls out of the sky sometimes. (AKA “rain”)
2. I believe that it falls on me and I get wet.
3. Because I believe #1 about # 2 what action do I take?
4. I remain inside when rain falls
5. I carry an unmbrella
6. I wear a raincoat and a cap
7. I go out and resign myself to get wet

In other words, because I firmly believe # 2, I am forced to deal with that belief by some active response.

This is true of anything that anyone really believes.

Anything that one really believes will affect one’s actions/behavior. If not…one probably doesn’t really believe whatever it is.

Now, on a different note:
Am I out to evangelize non-Catholics? No.
I’m out to evangelize everybody!

Our Lord left us a command in Matthew 28:18-20
18: And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

Good works as a lifestyle, and outer demonstration of the inner change, is one of the biggest reasons I’m still plugging away at my Q&A of the Catholic Church. Despite the backlash from so many of my friends and family!

This is a hard in-between place to be. I can’t, at this time, accept all the beliefs of the Catholic, so I get alot of scrutiny (and incredulity- how could I not believe?!) from Catholics. And yet, I’ve dared to consider the validity of the Catholic Church, so I have put myself on the outside of the Evangelical faith that I grew up with. I’ve appreciated this forum, by far the best demonstration of Christian kindness and charity I’ve seen in quite some time.

Becka

 

[Church_Militant]

Good works as a lifestyle, and outer demonstration of the inner change, is one of the biggest reasons I’m still plugging away at my Q&A of the Catholic Church. Despite the backlash from so many of my friends and family!

This is a hard in-between place to be. I can’t, at this time, accept all the beliefs of the Catholic, so I get alot of scrutiny (and incredulity- how could I not believe?!) from Catholics. And yet, I’ve dared to consider the validity of the Catholic Church, so I have put myself on the outside of the Evangelical faith that I grew up with. I’ve appreciated this forum, by far the best demonstration of Christian kindness and charity I’ve seen in quite some time.

Becka

Becka, if you need anything at all, or have questions that you fear may be taken wrong on the open forums, please do not hesitate to PM or e-mail me and I will be happy to assist in any way that I can. It will be an honor to do so. I trust that the Holy Spirit will guide you at this critical time in your journey of faith. Please know that I will include you in my prayers from this moment on.

A couple of very good sources that I will recommend to you from personal experience:
The Catholic Home Study Service offers some of the very best FREE courses on the Catholic faith that you will find anywhere. I read “Christ’s Mother and Ours” first, but the first study I did was “We Believe…”, and I’ve completed them all and begged for more.

The BIble Christian Society has some of the best explanations of Catholic teaching you will find anywhere, and again, the price is right. (FREE!) Be sure to look up the Bible study notes offered under “Booklets”
May the peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[becka01101]

Thank you very much, for both the support and the links. I just spent about an hour reading through Q&A’s on the Bible Christian Society website- and I also just ordered my first home study course from the Catholic Homy Study service.

I very much appreciate the help you’ve given to me, and I look forward to many good discussions in the future!

Becka

 

[Marsha_Adams]

If the Catholics can rightly take offense at their church being called a false church, why can’t I take offense at my church being called a part of a great heresy?

Because one statement is false and the other is true. The Catholic Church is the One True Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. The 2600+ Protestant denominations are not. The Catholic Church has the Sacraments and there is no salvation outside of it. The Protestant denominations do not have the Sacraments and offer salvation only to the extent that are attached to the Church. Pope Benedict XVI wrote a letter to that effect while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger.

If you see a house on fire with people in it, do you call the fire department and then try to get them out? Or do you walk on by and say, well they are probably happier staying at home?

I am sorry it Protestants take offense at being told the blunt truth, but there it is. I am far MORE sorry if Catholics withhold the truth rather than to give offense. If we are not willing to risk burning our hands as we reach into the fire to pluck out brands from the burning then we are not worthy to bear Christ’s name. Isn’t that what the Sacrament of Confirmation is all about? Receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that we are willing to be warriors for Christ? Even Martyrs if necessary?

Marsha

 

[InLight247]

Good works as a lifestyle, and outer demonstration of the inner change, is one of the biggest reasons I’m still plugging away at my Q&A of the Catholic Church. Despite the backlash from so many of my friends and family!

This is a hard in-between place to be. I can’t, at this time, accept all the beliefs of the Catholic, so I get alot of scrutiny (and incredulity- how could I not believe?!) from Catholics. And yet, I’ve dared to consider the validity of the Catholic Church, so I have put myself on the outside of the Evangelical faith that I grew up with. I’ve appreciated this forum, by far the best demonstration of Christian kindness and charity I’ve seen in quite some time.

Becka

I appreciate your spirit of seeking the truth.

If you have not read the book “The Lamb’s Supper” by Dr. Scott Hahn, I highly recommand this book to you.
I also recommand the tape “The Conversion of Scott Hahn” from
Mary Foundation. catholicity.com/maryfoundation

Scott Hahn was a Protestant Minister and convered to a Catholic scholar. His book and tape answer many questions he used to have as a Protestant, and tell the story of how and why he became a Catholic. Maybe you have already explored those.

Just a thought. I sincerely hope you find the truth and go with the truth you find.

God bless!

 

[RevDrNorth]

Hi,
As a born again christian in a non-denom church–probably similar to what you grew up in, I would ask catholics the same exact thing. Catholics do the same exact thing to protestants.

BTW, I do not convince catholics to leave their church either. If they ask me questions about my church or want to visit, I would never turn them away. I have a bible study in my house with 2 catholics that go to their respective churches. They have come to events at my church, but I have never asked them to leave theirs. God will lead them where He wants them to be.

That is surprsing. I have never been evangalized by a Roman Catholic. Not even when I particpated in a Life in the Spirit Seminar in College. The Priest and others were very respectful and when they prayed the Rosary let us know that they were Catholics and did it but we did not have to. They knew I was Anglican and no one evangelized me.

North

 

[becka01101]

I appreciate your spirit of seeking the truth.

If you have not read the book “The Lamb’s Supper” by Dr. Scott Hahn, I highly recommand this book to you.
I also recommand the tape “The Conversion of Scott Hahn” from
Mary Foundation. catholicity.com/maryfoundation

Scott Hahn was a Protestant Minister and convered to a Catholic scholar. His book and tape answer many questions he used to have as a Protestant, and tell the story of how and why he became a Catholic. Maybe you have already explored those.

Just a thought. I sincerely hope you find the truth and go with the truth you find.

God bless!

I’ve read Rome Sweet Home, it was very good- I’m planning to read it again. I have his book Hail, Holy Queen although I haven’t had the chance to read it yet. Thank you for the link- I will be ordering some of the CD’s.

Becka

 

[MariaG]

I’ve read Rome Sweet Home, it was very good- I’m planning to read it again. I have his book Hail, Holy Queen although I haven’t had the chance to read it yet. Thank you for the link- I will be ordering some of the CD’s.

Becka

This is a good place to come. I am glad that you are going to take advantage of those teachings suggested by Church Militant. And if you need to, take CM up on his offer, or any of the many other people on this forum, including me who would be glad to PM you with things that you may wish not to throw out on the open forums.

Many of us here have been where you are. We are told by our family, friends and pastor what the Catholic Church believes, (which would mean it is not Christian) yet when we research what the Catholic Church says it believes, it just does not match what we were told by non-Catholics or ex-Catholics.

I truly do not understand why people can’t see that the ex-Catholics, by their admission, never knew Christ when they left the Catholic Church yet many, many, former Protestants had/have a very real and personal relationship with Christ before coming back or coming to the Catholic Church that only grows deeper.

Yet the Catholics who used to be Protestant (or cradle Catholics not to leave them out ) are the ones that are wrong and don’t have a personal relationship with Christ because all these ex-Catholic who never had one while in the Catholic Church and non-Catholics say so? Just doens’t make any sense.

May God Bless you and lead you to all truth, protecting you from the lies of Satan.

Maria

 

[becka01101]

This is a good place to come. I am glad that you are going to take advantage of those teachings suggested by Church Militant. And if you need to, take CM up on his offer, or any of the many other people on this forum, including me who would be glad to PM you with things that you may wish not to throw out on the open forums.

Thank you very much for the support. This has been by far the friendliest forum I’ve been on. I’ve spent quite a bit of time reading, and have just recently begun posting.

I will definitely be taking you and Church Militant up on your offers of PM’ing with questions, when I come upon something I can’t wrap my mind around.

Thank you again,
Becka

 

[Church_Militant]

Thank you very much, for both the support and the links. I just spent about an hour reading through Q&A’s on the Bible Christian Society website- and I also just ordered my first home study course from the Catholic Homy Study service.

I very much appreciate the help you’ve given to me, and I look forward to many good discussions in the future!

Becka

You’re very welcome Becka.
The peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thank you very much for the support. This has been by far the friendliest forum I’ve been on. I’ve spent quite a bit of time reading, and have just recently begun posting.

I will definitely be taking you and Church Militant up on your offers of PM’ing with questions, when I come upon something I can’t wrap my mind around.

Thank you again,
Becka

Hey! Don’t forget the just plain old crazy Catholic fellowship!

 

[sapamarogi]

You say the Catholic Church has the sacraments and the protestant churches do not. You are right - there is nothing in the Word of God except Baptism after you are saved. It does not say to baptize babies because baptism is a sign that you have received Jesus Christ into your life and are born again. It shows death to the old life and you are in a new life as you are brought up out of the water. The problem with the Catholic Church is it makes it’s own doctrine - what happened to the Word of God. I challenge Catholics to put aside the teaching of the Catholic Church and pray and ask God to speak to them through the Word of God - especially new testatment - Gospel of John, book of Romans and the letters written mostly by Paul through the Holy Spirit and let God speak to them. God’s Word is above every man’s words. His Word is the Truth - do not add to it or take away from it. If you want to know the truth read the Word of God. There is no praying of the rosary in the Word (comes from pagan background), no praying to the saints or Mary in the Word, no purgatory in the Word. Salvation through Jesus finished work on the cross only. Jesus paid it all! But if you would rather listen to man and to religion which is made by man go ahead. God gave us HIS WORD - will we read it or believe sinful man instead. May God bring you into the truth - THE WORD OF GOD

 

[mercygate]

You say the Catholic Church has the sacraments and the protestant churches do not. You are right - there is nothing in the Word of God except Baptism after you are saved. It does not say to baptize babies because baptism is a sign that you have received Jesus Christ into your life and are born again. It shows death to the old life and you are in a new life as you are brought up out of the water. The problem with the Catholic Church is it makes it’s own doctrine - what happened to the Word of God. I challenge Catholics to put aside the teaching of the Catholic Church and pray and ask God to speak to them through the Word of God - especially new testatment - Gospel of John, book of Romans and the letters written mostly by Paul through the Holy Spirit and let God speak to them. God’s Word is above every man’s words. His Word is the Truth - do not add to it or take away from it. If you want to know the truth read the Word of God. There is no praying of the rosary in the Word (comes from pagan background), no praying to the saints or Mary in the Word, no purgatory in the Word. Salvation through Jesus finished work on the cross only. Jesus paid it all! But if you would rather listen to man and to religion which is made by man go ahead. God gave us HIS WORD - will we read it or believe sinful man instead. May God bring you into the truth - THE WORD OF GOD

Catholics would encourage you to take a deep breath and calm down. We would smile gently, shake your hand as a brother/sister in Christ and ask you how you know that the Bible is the Word of God? And the answer would be that the Catholic Church gave you the Bible along with the assurance that it is, indeed, inspired and inerrant. That Bible includes, by the way, the 7 books the tradition of men you embrace felt competent to remove from the canon.

Sacraments? 'Nother thread. But be assured that nothing in Catholic doctrine contradicts Sacred Scripture. Nothing. Pick a sacrament, any sacrament, and go to the CA home page library for a quick overview. Perhaps a little exposure to real Catholic teaching will soften your ever-so-acerbic rhetoric.