To Quote LDS Prophets....

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There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247; see also, vol. 4, p. 53-54, 219-220).

…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312).

“I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161). (hmmmm…even that Adam is God?)

"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom…I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.(Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

“Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269). (wow…Woodruff is in trouble)

“…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289). (really?)

“God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 120). (wow…so God is not all-knowing and all-powerful?)

"What man or woman on earth, what spirit in the spirit-world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, or a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens? The success which has attended me in my presidency is owing to the blessings and mercy of the Almighty . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 127). (so then, Adam IS God?)

“The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). (really? How is a virgin birh natural?)

“I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50).

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind…Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).
“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110). (wow)
 
from Joseph

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil–all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409).

". . .I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 5, p. 394).

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens…I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form – like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man…it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see…and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).

Blacks will be servants to whites in heaven according to Apostle Mark Peterson in a BYU speech in 1954

“Think of the Negro, CURSED AS TO THE PRIESTHOOD… This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a BLACK SKIN, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory.”
 
“The universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain him as such…if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or “sense of justice” of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the “power” of God would disintegrateóHe would cease to be God.” W. Cleon Skousen (Former BYU Professor & founder of Mormon-based National Center For Constitutional Studies), The First 2000 Years , p. 355.

“In the heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives, which were given to him …while yet in his mortal state.” Orson Pratt (Apostle), The Seer, p. 37.

“Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married…whereby he could see his seed.” Orson Hyde, Apostle, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 2, p. 82.

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness, he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fulness of the blessings of the Gospel.” Joseph Fielding Smith (Prophet), The Way To Perfection, p. 102.

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world…In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 348, 349)

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289)
 
The question is - do modern LDS believe in these quotes? Do they believe them or do they ignore them or do the believe them but keep it a secret?
 
The question is - do modern LDS believe in these quotes? Do they believe them or do they ignore them or do the believe them but keep it a secret?
First, to be clear, you are not quoting scripture or official doctrine.

No, I don’t believe the quipes you’ve provided. I can’t speak more broadly but expect very few people are even familiar with them…
 
STM -
what was your reason for posting this thread? Was it to promote intelligent discussion or to put down/disprove the LDS faith? There did not seem a clear reason or question. Calrification of intent would be appreciated.
Annie
 
STM -
your profile states that you are here for “faith questions” but you seem to spend an awful lot of time attempting to disprove the LDS faith. I am just curious; why?
Annie
 
Wrong. We are quoting MORMON “prophets”…
But your quotes appear to be heavily padded with other stuff.

For example, W. Cleon Skousen was never one of the “MORMON ‘prophets’…” but you shoved one of his in there anyway. Why?

Likewise, I see among your handful of standard anti-Mormon prooftexts, a reference to a publication called “The Seer.” You realise, don’t you, that “The Seer” is a repudiated publication? That the First Presidency rejected it, and its author, Orson Pratt, basically resiled from what he had written in it?

Did you know that?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and presuming that you cut and pasted that stuff without realising the above two items were in it: are you now prepared to demonstrate your good faith by removing them?

Regards,
Pahoran
 
STM, do you have a thorn in your paw we can help remove:confused:

You should understand a few things, so we are on the same page.
Both the Phrophet and the Pope are deemed to receive revelations for their respective churches.
Said revelations are carefuly scrutinized before becoming official doctrine.
Since both the Pope and Prophet are not jacked into the Holy Ghost 24/7, they are speaking as regular human beings 99% of the time, with all their human weaknesses and cultural foibles that may be hugley embarrasing in 100+ years.

Net, published thoughts of dead leaders will sometimes yield thought provoking insights, laughs or embarrasment. If it’s not doctrine, IT"S NOT DOCTRINE.
 
STM -
what was your reason for posting this thread? Was it to promote intelligent discussion or to put down/disprove the LDS faith? There did not seem a clear reason or question. Calrification of intent would be appreciated.
Annie
to inform…
 
STM -
your profile states that you are here for “faith questions” but you seem to spend an awful lot of time attempting to disprove the LDS faith. I am just curious; why?
Annie
oh, heavens…I do not need to attempt to disprove the LDS Church…I have your “prophets” for that
 
to inform…
ok. So now the question is, what makes you think that you know enough about the LDS church to “inform”? It seems that you are really here just to aggitate…and not all the “information” you post is exactly accurate (see previous post regarding who you claim is a mormon prophet who actually is not, for one example). You definately sound as if you have a bone to pick and are not here to merely “inform”. You are in my prayers.
Annie
 
But your quotes appear to be heavily padded with other stuff.

For example, W. Cleon Skousen was never one of the “MORMON ‘prophets’…” but you shoved one of his in there anyway. Why?

Likewise, I see among your handful of standard anti-Mormon prooftexts, a reference to a publication called “The Seer.” You realise, don’t you, that “The Seer” is a repudiated publication? That the First Presidency rejected it, and its author, Orson Pratt, basically resiled from what he had written in it?

Did you know that?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and presuming that you cut and pasted that stuff without realising the above two items were in it: are you now prepared to demonstrate your good faith by removing them?

Regards,
Pahoran
wow…I don;t blame you for deflecting from the stuff by “prophets”…but, you can post all you want, I will let your “prophets” speak for themselves.
 
Oh heavens - then why are you trying so hard and failing so miserably?🤷
lol…it is not hard at all…and anytime a Mormon tells me I am failing at this, it means I am succeeding. If I was not doing any harm, you would not give me the time of day.

thank you…
 
ok. So now the question is, what makes you think that you know enough about the LDS church to “inform”? It seems that you are really here just to aggitate…and not all the “information” you post is exactly accurate (see previous post regarding who you claim is a mormon prophet who actually is not, for one example). You definately sound as if you have a bone to pick and are not here to merely “inform”. You are in my prayers.
Annie
lol…my posts are accurate. I am not perfect by any stretch…but my posts are accurate.

And to answer your question…I was LDS. Served a mission. Served in EQ presidency. Served in Bishopric. Was a Sunday School teacher. Did a LOT of studying. have been to Palmyra, Nauvoo, Kirtland, Carthage, a bunch of temples…

I figure I know some stuff…
 
If the general public was aware of these statement and where they came from, they would probably bombard TV stations to take off those LDS TV commercials that have been running in some cities.

If LDS missionaries told investigators about these quotes there would probably be many who would not join.

I would like to see the LDS on this board take every statement posted and just say if you agree or disagree on it. Or say you believe or not believe in it, or partially believe. No running around the questions, no long winded answers. Just give an answer on each one: Believe, Not Believe, Partially Believe.
 
wow…I don;t blame you for deflecting from the stuff by “prophets”…but, you can post all you want, I will let your “prophets” speak for themselves.
And you can post all you want and it will not change the faith or beliefs on any LDS member here. So, again, why all the effort on your part? And as far as our prophets speaking for themselves, we would greatly appreciate that. And we will let your pope speak for himself and all catholics - how about that? He is your leader just as Thomas Monson is our leader and we should at least respect the other’s choice of who they follow. Arrogance and anger will get you nowhere.
Annie
 
Both the Phrophet and the Pope are deemed to receive revelations for their respective churches.
This is not correct. Catholics do not believe that the Pope receives revelations in the same sense that Mormons believe that the President of their church does. Catholics believe that “public revelation” ended with the death of the last apostle. In contrast, Mormons believe in “continuing [public] revelation”. Catholics also make a distinction between “inspiration” and “revelation”. Papal Infallibility is an inspired process, however it is not God giving new public revelation, since we do not believe that that continues.
 
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