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Napsack
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Good_Fella
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“Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”
Luke 10, 16
“If anyone does not believe that Mary is the Mother of God, he is severed from the Godhead.”
Gregory of Nazianzus, To Cledonius (A.D. 382)
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, and to show esteem for them with special love on account of their work.
1 Thessalonians 5, 12-13
“Since therefore I have, in the persons before mentioned, beheld the whole multitude of you in faith and love, I exhort you to study to do all things in divine harmony, while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ…be ye united with your bishop, and those who preside over you, as a type and evidence of your immortality.”
Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 110)
PAX :harp:
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Good_Fella
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God has a mother - that’s the one thing that makes him also fully human.
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory of his Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth.
John 1, 1,14
But when the fullness of time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman.
Galatians 4, 4 [DRB]
St. Thomas Aquinas comments that Paul had intended to write “made of a woman” instead of “born of a woman” to emphasize the fullness of Christ’s humanity in union with the fullness of his divinity. The latter expression can mislead one into believing that Mary was the mother of only the human Jesus, as if there were two distinct persons - one human and one divine - coinhabiting a single body. This was the heretical teaching of Bishop Nestorious, which was condemned by the Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431) under the jurisdictional authority of Pope Celestine. Modern day Fundamentalists lean towards this heresy by claiming that Mary was the mother of only the human Jesus, if by that they mean Mary simply provided a human nature. One avoids Nestorianism here, but ends up making the absurd claim that mothers give birth to natures, not persons. The truth is Mary gave birth to one Divine Person who possessed a human soul, mind, and will by her alongside his divine attributes. Mary provided the matter that fashioned the Son of Man - who claimed to have been one with the Father and had the authority to forgive sins - and she gave birth to the Son of God who assumed his human nature through her by the power of the Holy Spirit.
"And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my lord should come to me?"
Luke 1, 43
The New Testament church at Jerusalem venerated Mary first and foremost by virtue of her Divine Maternity. The evangelist expresses the Church’s devotion to Mary in literary form. The angel Gabriel grants Mary a salutation reserved strictly for members of a royal house (the royal house of David) and Elizabeth is honoured by Mary’s visit and praises her cousin, since she has been uniquely blessed by being chosen to bear the Only-begotten Son of God.
In any event, neither did Jesus pass through a corridor as some form of light only to ‘appear’ human, possessing only a divine nature in his flesh and blood. This notion constitutes the Monophysite heresy. Surely John and Paul do not teach us that Jesus was a divine Person who only appeared physically human. The apostles believed that Jesus was both fully God and fully man as a single entity. If it were otherwise, the true meaning of our Lord’s presence among us in the economy of salvation would be laid waste. Christ’s humanity played a signifcant part in undoing the sin of Adam and Eve and reversing the fall of man. God chose no path other than becoming genuinely human to reconcile us with him through the mediation of his divine Son so that we would have a model to show us what it takes to be true children of God: perfect human obedience to the will of God the Father. Paul speaks of Jesus as the firstborn of many brothers, those who conform to the image of God’s Son in the flesh. (Rom 8:29).
Aquinas tells us that the principle of generation is twofold: conjoined-separate. The conjoined principle refers to the matter Christ took from his mother’s body. This principle is passive. In this sense it would be proper to say that Jesus was “born of a woman”, who provided the material cause of the Son of Man’s generation. However, human beings are not inanimate objects made only from matter. A formal cause defines who we essentially are. Now Mary had no conjugal relations with Joseph. The active-separate principle did not involve a union between them in the conception of Jesus. So far as Christ was a human being in his divinity through the formation of his body and acquisition of the immaterial human attributes of a soul, mind, and will, his generation as a man was not conjoined but separate in principle through the active agency of the Holy Spirit who overshadowed Mary and effected our Lord’s conception. As a person Jesus is divine, since the Holy Spirit is divine, and as a single divine Person he assumed a human nature through the Holy Spirit’s interaction with Mary as an active-separate principle in union with a passive-conjoined principle, thereby acquiring those attributes that formally define our humanity. To deny Mary her Divine Maternity is to deny also the divinity of the Holy Spirit. Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the Apostle John, and he taught that Jesus was both of God and of Mary. She gave birth to a divine Person who became fully human like us by her.
“He reshaped man to perfection in Himself, from Mary the Mother of God through the Holy Spirit.”
Epiphanius (A.D. 374)
:yup:
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adrift
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You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. You don’t care if you can find Trinity because you rightly say it is a reality. If that is your logic than you cannot than say you have to see the name Roman Church, penance or veneration, all of it is in Scripture just like Trinity. If you say it must be so named, than you have to also see the name Trinity to be consistent. You have to be inconsistent in order to reject that which is plainly there and which is historically provable. You seem angry about the mention of history. Why is that? History is only garbage to those who want to deny it.
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placido
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That makes Jesus two persons - the human and the Divine. Is that what you really believe?
Iasiah 9:6:
The Bible says God has mother. What is your take on that?
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placido
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And the fact that the word “Bible” is not in the Bible does not worry him/her either. He/she decided what is to be questioned - a Super Pope?
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DLC
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The veneration of Mary would be supported by the Bible if it is biblical it is not. There is no evidence from Scripture that mary was held in high esteem as catholics do. if so where. The words full of grace that are used of Mary is also used of Saints in general over in Ehp. Chapter 1. Does this mean that all saints as well have been removed of orginal sin and should be venerated like Mary is?
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Napsack
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You are completely avoiding the point here. Trinity isn’t named in Scripture but is totally shown and supported throughout Scripture. Roman Catholic, veneration of Mary and penance are unnamed just like Trinity but are also not supported and not sustained by Scripture. Truth is the point here.
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pete_29
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I wasn’t saying that it didn’t matter what the Apostles said, I was saying that it doesn’t matter what you say. Nice childish attempt to twist my words. :tsktsk:
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pete_29
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I see you need another lesson in humility.
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Napsack
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Who could be humble in the midst of humor such as that was?I see you need another lesson in humility.
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pete_29
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JesusWho could be humble in the midst of humor such as that was?
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CentralFLJames
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Most people would because the statement was a complete lie with no substance behind it. Only a fool laughs at his own foolishness.Who could be humble in the midst of humor such as that was?
James
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NonCatholic
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NonCatholic
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**
In way deep!
Mark 7:7 BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’
Matthew 15:13-14 "But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. 14 “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
Blind men/women heed the words of Jesus.**
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NonCatholic
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I’ll restate, Mary of the Bible gave birth to the human nature of Jesus, not the divine nature; therefore the real heresy is to imply that Mary of the Catholic Church gave birth to Jesus in divine nature. Are you sure you are not Bill Clinton?
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AshleyBelle
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Did Mary give birth to a nature, or a person?
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Tantum_ergo
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Yes, Jesus is not ‘split’.
Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, true God AND true man.
She did not give birth to the Father or the Spirit–but she did give birth to the Son on earth.
The Greek term of “God-bearer” (Theotokos is the spelling I think) is pretty clear–Mary bore God in the person of Jesus in her womb. That is, she gave birth to the PERSON who happened to have two natures–Divine and human–in that ONE person.
She didn’t give birth to a ‘human half-Jesus’ while the divine half-Jesus somehow was always racing around the cosmos and just ‘popped into’ the human half-Jesus after birth so that Mary never had anything to do with ‘that half’.
Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, true God AND true man.
She did not give birth to the Father or the Spirit–but she did give birth to the Son on earth.
The Greek term of “God-bearer” (Theotokos is the spelling I think) is pretty clear–Mary bore God in the person of Jesus in her womb. That is, she gave birth to the PERSON who happened to have two natures–Divine and human–in that ONE person.
She didn’t give birth to a ‘human half-Jesus’ while the divine half-Jesus somehow was always racing around the cosmos and just ‘popped into’ the human half-Jesus after birth so that Mary never had anything to do with ‘that half’.
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Hisalone
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I thought the answer myself was funny.
Easy to seee some with no sense of humor.
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