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RobHom
Guest
But…absolutely not what you think it says…
- Status
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RobHom
Guest
And I would suggest that you read Luke 11 in its entirety…and digest the meaning of the entire chapter, as opposed to trying to take one snippet out of scripture and twist it to your design.
Likewise, I’m sure…
R
RobHom
Guest
No, I believe it is you who are confused, and have zero actual knowledge about what we believe, and what you think you know came from someone with just as little factual knowledge as yours.
Proof positive that you have zero knowledge of Catholicism.
Actually, I find that it is normally non-Catholics who have little grasp or understanding as to what scriptures mean. Is it actually a doubt, or are you stating your “desire” so as to veil a self-justification?
Again, you prove your abject lack of knowledge. You really need to go back to the person or persons who fed you that line of propaganda and lies, and tell them they were very wrong!!
Again, you prove your abject lack of knowledge…you really do need to set your teachers and yourself right. You are so wrong its hard to say if its more pathetic or more hysterical.
Actually, I think that maybe you have far more to worry about than anyone else…but then, its not my job to judge you, that is Christ’s to do, and surely He will.
I’ll be more than happy not to discuss these things with people of your ilk. Suits me just fine. You complain and try to wear victims ashes wailing about uncharitable comments, etc, yada, then go into a bigoted rant and try to take to the high ground while you’re standing in quicksand.
I’m not in the least interested in your “truth”. I know the truth, and that is a truth that has apparently eluded many, including yourself. You claim much about the scriptures, yet its apparent you neither understand or believe them.
After your last comments…I would have to guess that was said “sarcastically”…
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RobHom
Guest
I’m probably going to get censured for my comments, but I’ll say it anyway.
You are so far wrong that I find it difficult to accept that you believe the nonsense you are spouting.
For someone who knows nothing about Catholicism…you are more than just “judgmental”, you are foolish and arrogant as well.
Your lack of knowledge is sad, and your understanding of scriptures is even sadder.
Let me give you a “glimpse” as to what we believe, and let it be a starting place for you to advance your knowledge above and beyond the foul lies you have been taught:
**We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. **
Hopefully that sounds a little familiar to you…
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Since Catholic worship is centered around the Blood, Body, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist, it would be when we started to believe that we could receive Mary also in the same sort of manner.
Do you have evidence of this?
God bless
A
Always_For_Him
Guest
nbtb1348,
I know that you believe what you believe. BUT, you have to know that you are seriously crossing boundaries here saying the things that you are saying. Are you just trying to rile us up so you can then call us uncharitable? It is really difficult to continue reading the absolute ingorance of the Catholic Church that you are writing. Please stop. I want to ask you to please pray for God to remove your blinders and bias, then GO read all of the historically written documentation that is just waiting for you to do what you HAVE to do. It is all there for you. You will eventually see where teaching and interpretation actually changed, by whom and WHY if you honestly and openly and prayerfully are open to seeing it. Better men than you have tried to disprove the Catholic Church and couldn’t. Don’t be afraid to face the fact that you have been taught error. That is what happens when men, on their own authority, teach Scripure by their own self interpretation. As we can see thousands of men have been able to sell their interpretation to others. Look how many Churches there are. There is only ONE Truth, and now that you have been properly introduced, it is your duty to at least research it all the way back if you have to. You can’t feign ignorance now, you have been taught the Truth. Just because you don’t believe it and have a different interpretation of Scripture, doesn’t mean we are wrong. It means that you have come to believe errant teaching and your salvation is at stake if you believe OSAS or Sola Scriptura is going to get you to heaven. That spirit you are feeling just might be the devil. Scripture says to hold true to the teachings and traditions as given to you by the Church and to beware the spirit leading you may not be the Holy Spirit.
I know that you believe what you believe. BUT, you have to know that you are seriously crossing boundaries here saying the things that you are saying. Are you just trying to rile us up so you can then call us uncharitable? It is really difficult to continue reading the absolute ingorance of the Catholic Church that you are writing. Please stop. I want to ask you to please pray for God to remove your blinders and bias, then GO read all of the historically written documentation that is just waiting for you to do what you HAVE to do. It is all there for you. You will eventually see where teaching and interpretation actually changed, by whom and WHY if you honestly and openly and prayerfully are open to seeing it. Better men than you have tried to disprove the Catholic Church and couldn’t. Don’t be afraid to face the fact that you have been taught error. That is what happens when men, on their own authority, teach Scripure by their own self interpretation. As we can see thousands of men have been able to sell their interpretation to others. Look how many Churches there are. There is only ONE Truth, and now that you have been properly introduced, it is your duty to at least research it all the way back if you have to. You can’t feign ignorance now, you have been taught the Truth. Just because you don’t believe it and have a different interpretation of Scripture, doesn’t mean we are wrong. It means that you have come to believe errant teaching and your salvation is at stake if you believe OSAS or Sola Scriptura is going to get you to heaven. That spirit you are feeling just might be the devil. Scripture says to hold true to the teachings and traditions as given to you by the Church and to beware the spirit leading you may not be the Holy Spirit.
A
Always_For_Him
Guest
Hey diggingdeeper,
I will attempt to answer your question… We all hear the stories of people who go overboard. There are some very devout people out there of ALL denominations as well as Catholics that get caught up in their worship. I remember reading about some Mary worshippers, and those people went overboard. ALTHOUGH, they didn’t put Mary before God. They celebrated her because she was the Mother of God, because she said, “yes”, because she had unshakable faith, because of her unfailing TRUST in God. Could you imagine being Mary, going through what she went through, the way she had to make the decisions?
We DON’T worship Mary. We revere her. Jesus gave her to us at the foot of the Cross. She is the greatest saint. We should all look up to her for her role, her faith, her love, her complete Trust in God and all try to be more like her.
I will attempt to answer your question… We all hear the stories of people who go overboard. There are some very devout people out there of ALL denominations as well as Catholics that get caught up in their worship. I remember reading about some Mary worshippers, and those people went overboard. ALTHOUGH, they didn’t put Mary before God. They celebrated her because she was the Mother of God, because she said, “yes”, because she had unshakable faith, because of her unfailing TRUST in God. Could you imagine being Mary, going through what she went through, the way she had to make the decisions?
We DON’T worship Mary. We revere her. Jesus gave her to us at the foot of the Cross. She is the greatest saint. We should all look up to her for her role, her faith, her love, her complete Trust in God and all try to be more like her.
C
CentralFLJames
Guest
Are you are trying to accouter yourself to go off on a witch hunt here? Have wooden stakes and matches?
You are asking Catholics to give you objective evidence by which it is OK to judge, as if God, by outward appearances what is the interior state of a person’s soul so we can burn someone at the stake?
What would be the purpose in all this? To prove by torturous deeds and works that we inflict on another that we love God but don’t trust Him competent to be able to settle justice Himself?
The normal way that The Church deals with blatant idolatry is to seperate them from our company. The evidence of that would be physical separation so there would be no confusing that their worship was the same as our worship. Remind you of anyone?
Turn it around. What evidence would you present to prove that YOU properly worship God? The lip-service of spoken words? How do we know if those words are sincere? Judas betrayed God with a feigning kiss.
How did Cain come to know that his worship and sacrifice was unacceptable to God and his brother Abel’s was accepted? Did Cain slay Abel out of jealousy or out of self righteousness? Does it matter which? And did Abel seek to judge Cain’s worship or just focus on his own worship and leave the matter of judgement to God? Would it have been better had neither brother worshiped God so as to avoid the occasion for conflict?
At its core - this is a matter of infidelity to God and to self.
What would be the evidence that your wife is even thinking of you when you are having conjugal relations with her? Perhaps if she called out somone other’s name in her throes of passion to reveal her innermost thoughts? What would you do - stop having relations with her to hide the truth or play along with it for your own pleasure? If the latter what would that make you? Perhaps you should ask here in this case if you have aided and abetted the crime by helping, in more than one way, to inspire and induce it.
This entire question and line of reasoning implies that you imagine that it is ever licit to judge the interior state of one’s soul.
ONLY God may judge.
And really, who would be so arrogant to imagine they can read the interior and private thoughts of another person?
Only someone self possessed with arrogance and pride or touched by delusional thinking or mental illness would ever imagine this.
Do you imagine it is YOUR place to take offense for God based on an a-priori presumption of guilt?
It is the interior conscience that God uses to convict and change and correct one’s sentiments. Madness is one external sign of a delusional mind - both in fault of worship and in fault in presuming to judge for God. Separation is another.
If you are worried for God that anyone gets away with sin - don’t be worried - God is not mocked - ever. Or do you not really trust that God is omnipotent and all seeing?
To remove any doubt that a person is ever justified in worshiping other than God The Church through it authority of loosing and binding imposes automatic excommunication on anyone who worships other than God. If it is justice you demand know that such a person will go to Hell if they remain impenitent and die in that state. This is also true for heretics and schismatics who remain seperated from the Catholic Church. As you judge others so you too are judged.
Outward signs of excommunication are those who no longer go to communion (or receive worthily - but only God knows this for certain) and no longer go to mass to worship God. Do you receive The Lord’s Body and Blood?
But by all these same outward signs that evidence would make ALL Protestants and non-religious in the same condition of false worship or self-worship (to not worship God is to self worship through presumption of self importance and indifference). We Catholics know however through the wisdom of The Church Teaching that some few of these, through no fault of their own in a condition we call “invincible ignorance” might not be damned by God.
But it is not for Catholics or even heathen, schismatic or heretic to Judge anyone but one’s own soul. And Catholics do that through the sacrament of confession and leave it to The Church to judge our sincerity so we may be forgiven and forgive ourselves; the presumption is sincerity that one does not come to waste their time.
It is only for any of us to Hope upon God’s Mercy for all our brothers and sisters with us or in separation - including real or imagined witches.
Will we see you in Catholic Mass next week to worship God as He has revealed to us he wishes to be worshiped or will you worship in a way that is suitable to yourself?
James
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RobHom
Guest
Simple answer: You drew “first blood”, therefore are fair game. You set yourself up as judge, jury and hangman… Are you “more” special than anyone else?
Simple answer: Any one of us has just as much ground to “preach” as you do. In fact…even more. Sola scriptura is nothing more than an unsupported theology that was created (made) by a man 500 years ago.
Simple answer: No, what it boils down to is your prideful and arrogant position that you are superior in knowledge and all else.
Are you of that strange “ilk” that believes they “have the mind of God”…or would that be “god” and have the ability and right to “judge” others?
Frankly, I’m not sure that I want someone like you “praying” for me.
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RobHom
Guest
I guess one thing that I am absolutely amazed about is that people who claim to be Christians…absolutely claim it, yet they do not pay a lick of attention to the Commandment that states: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor!
Now, here is an assignment for all non-Catholics:
Repeat the following mantra until it becomes ingrained in your psyche:
***CATHOLICS
DO NOT
WORSHIP
MARY!!!***
Get over it, get past it, and stop making a big issue out of a falsehood generated by “bearers of false witness”.
Now, here is an assignment for all non-Catholics:
Repeat the following mantra until it becomes ingrained in your psyche:
***CATHOLICS
DO NOT
WORSHIP
MARY!!!***
Get over it, get past it, and stop making a big issue out of a falsehood generated by “bearers of false witness”.
A
Angels_Unaware
Guest
And the reason why you have no basis saying this is very, very simple. It comes down to one sentence. You cannot see or judge the intentions of others’ hearts. Only God knows whether veneration has become worship. You do not. Common sense tells you that you love creatures in your own life with great passion: your children, your spouse, your parents. Love for Mary and saints is only different in that we spiritually sense the love rather than that physically sense it. Only God knows if you idolize your family. Your expressed love should never be judged as worship. You are gravely misguided to judge the intentions of others’ hearts, going so far as to call people “damned” and “unsaved”. You will see, if you stay here long enough, Fundamentalists who impugn the Catholic church are in deep error that is contradicted by the witness of history and the light of reason.
Luke 6:42, “How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Luke 6:42, “How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
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Napsack
Guest
Where did you come from? Sola scriptura is a concept that Catholics use to paint their opponents to try and make them look not just wrong but simplistic and wrong. It doesn’t work in the eyes of truth. Catholics have no right whatesoever to declare their knowledge and understanding as superior to anyone elses Protestant or Orthodox and have no right to tell others that they are ignorant of the faith when they disagree with it. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks, sorry.
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codebilly
Guest
Why lump Orthodox with Protestant? The Orthodox church is a church with its own history of devotion to Theotokas, “The God Bearer”, Mary the Mother of God.
Fact is, the 2 most ancient Christian churches, both on the authority of their saints and apostolic tradition, are steeped in a history of devotion to Mary.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Sorry, your divisive tactic to recruit Orthodox as your mercenaries failed. Our Orthodox brothers share substantially the exact same apostolic faith. We only differ really in a small matter of a single sentence of the Creed relating to the double procession of the Holy Spirit that is more a matter of feelings of hurt that they were not consulted (when the CC changed it in its hurry to combat Arianism) than it is a difference in theological belief; and a few minor differences on specifics on purgatory, The other issue is authority of the pontiff verses equal authority of all the bishops - which we are working to resolve and see real possibilities of the re-unification that we Catholics hope for since we revere their deep spirituality.
So you are left to stand on your own heretical teachings of Luther - who by the way would turn over in his grave to see the 30,000 new Protestant sects all cross competing and all disrespecting Mary. At least Luther loved and cherished Mary - but even Luther was too Catholic for Protestants so they had to continue to strip all semblances save baptism of the true faith to distance themselves from Catholics. Even now many Protestants are trying to do away with Baptism and saying it is only symbolic!! I hate to imagine what wrath the leaders of the Protestant Churches will face on their day of judgement. Catholics pray for Protestants every day and in our masses to re-convert.
Sola Scriptura is a doctrine patterned after the lies of Satan himself and what he tried to use against Christ to twist and pervert scripture. In the end it all goes down into the pit…
Answer just one question if you will. If you could trust the Catholic Church to write and bring you the cannon of the bible why can’t you trust it to teach it to you?
James
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codebilly
Guest
Intercession of Mary and Saints
O holy Mother of God.
Despise not our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin. – Sub Tuum Greek Papyrus circa 300AD
- Jeremiah after death prayed for Jerusalem - 2 Mach 25:14
- Prayers of saints presented to God - Rev. 5:8
- Intercession of St. Peter after his death - 2 Peter 1:15
- St. Stephen prays for his persecutors - Acts 7:59
- St. Paul prays for his companions - Acts 27:24, Eph 2:16, Phil 1:4, Col. 1:3
- St. Paul requests congregation to pray for him, his assocates - 1 Thess. 5:25
- St. James instructs Christ’s followers to pray for each othert - James 5:16
O holy Mother of God.
Despise not our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin. – Sub Tuum Greek Papyrus circa 300AD
H
Hisalone
Guest
Actually Christ answered Satan with scripture. It is imperative that everyone know the word of God and use it as a defense against the enemy of our souls.
The Catholic Church has proved to me to be totally unreliable that is why I do not trust her with interpreting scripture which is alive and gives life to our soul and to our spirit if we allow it to.
I
Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
Wow, this myth of saint-worship by Catholics is still going around?
C
codebilly
Guest
Isn’t it interesting that bible thumpers are anxious to start a new religion founded on their own false pride and authority. So prideful in fact, that they are willing to ignore the history of the Martyrs and saints.
Worse, their attacks on our tradition of devotion to Mary, is no less, an attack on the Person of Jesus Himself, St. John and the Apostles, and the early Church and her saints and martyrs. As their words condemn those who shed their blood in the preservation of the faith.
Not only do they condemn the martyrs and saints, but they falsely judge themselves above those nearest to Christ.
From her we have harvested the grape of life; from her we have cultivated the seed of immortality. For our sake she became Mediatrix of all blessings; in her God became man, and man became God." – St. John Damascene – Homily on the Dormition 16; PG 96, 744 D
Worse, their attacks on our tradition of devotion to Mary, is no less, an attack on the Person of Jesus Himself, St. John and the Apostles, and the early Church and her saints and martyrs. As their words condemn those who shed their blood in the preservation of the faith.
Not only do they condemn the martyrs and saints, but they falsely judge themselves above those nearest to Christ.
From her we have harvested the grape of life; from her we have cultivated the seed of immortality. For our sake she became Mediatrix of all blessings; in her God became man, and man became God." – St. John Damascene – Homily on the Dormition 16; PG 96, 744 D
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codebilly
Guest
It’s been a long time since you’ve been to confession, … eh?
This thread is about Mary. Perhaps you should seek her humility and simplicity, her subordination to God’s will, rather than seek to worship the speculative conclusions of your own spinning mind.
You can never understand God by way of mental speculation. The bible says this and in that chapter, and such and such a verse it says, and so on and so on.
Those old catholic women you see in daily mass have never studied the bible, yet have been receiving daily communion for decades. They often pray ceaselessly throughout the day, and their homes are filled with statues and pictures of the Savior, His mother and His saints.
When did you rise in holiness so great that you (and your puffed up self trust) rose above that of those old ladies.
One prayer from their lips can save you, but a prayer from yours may rely on your own merits.
You merely cannot accept the authority of the Pontiff and the Church, because you are bigger and more authorative than the succession of St. Peter.
Tell your “trust story” to Mother Teresa’s 3000+ Catholic Missionaries of Charity. Explain to Jesus that your personal faith is more trustworthy than her missionaries.
Mary is the shrine, the temple, the embodiment of Love of God, the Theotokas, the God Bearer, the mirror of humility and perfect Christian surrender.
Wake Up! Please stop persecuting Mary, for your own sake and those you may throw an obstacle of confusion before.
- Status