To the Jewish Faith: How long will you wait?

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Righteousone

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In the Old Testament, there are so many signs that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. For example, there is Isaiah 53 with its description of the Suffering Servant who was despised and rejected, afflicted with pain and stripes, by whose “Stripes we are Healed”. He then dies, is buried, yet is revived and suffers all this “For the affliction of my (Isaiah’s the Prophet’s) people”. All this can be best applied to one person only: Yeshua of Nazareth.
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 98) teaches that this chapter refers to Messiah. the Targum of Jonathan begins the passage with the words Ha yatslakh avdee Mashikha, “Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper”…common sense says it must refer to Jesus.
There are arguements against claims by the fact that some prophecies like Isaiah 2 (breaking swords into plowshares) and Isaiah II lamp and lion dwelling together) have not been fulfilled by his second coming creates too long a hiatus (of close to 2,000 years).

But what is 2,000 years in the sight of God, waiting patiently for his people to respond and accept his annointed One Yeshua,ben Elohim?
 
Prophecy says Jesus returns in 2000 years so it’s right on target.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

1st century + 2000 years

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  • 1000 years
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Prophecy says Jesus returns in 2000 years so it’s right on target.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

1st century + 2000 years

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  • 1000 years
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
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Then why then don’t you believe in Jesus as the Messiah?
 
Righteousone said:
In the Old Testament, there are so many signs that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. For example, there is Isaiah 53 with its description of the Suffering Servant who was despised and rejected, afflicted with pain and stripes, by whose “Stripes we are Healed”. He then dies, is buried, yet is revived and suffers all this “For the affliction of my (Isaiah’s the Prophet’s) people”. All this can be best applied to one person only: Yeshua of Nazareth.
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 98) teaches that this chapter refers to Messiah. the Targum of Jonathan begins the passage with the words Ha yatslakh avdee Mashikha, “Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper”…common sense says it must refer to Jesus.
There are arguements against claims by the fact that some prophecies like Isaiah 2 (breaking swords into plowshares) and Isaiah II lamp and lion dwelling together) have not been fulfilled by his second coming creates too long a hiatus (of close to 2,000 years).

But what is 2,000 years in the sight of God, waiting patiently for his people to respond and accept his annointed One Yeshua,ben Elohim?
Click to expand...
One of the first arguments against Jesus as messiah is that He is not a direct descendant of David.
 
Righteousone said:
In the Old Testament, there are so many signs that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. For example, there is Isaiah 53 with its description of the Suffering Servant who was despised and rejected, afflicted with pain and stripes, by whose “Stripes we are Healed”. He then dies, is buried, yet is revived and suffers all this “For the affliction of my (Isaiah’s the Prophet’s) people”. All this can be best applied to one person only: Yeshua of Nazareth.
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 98) teaches that this chapter refers to Messiah. the Targum of Jonathan begins the passage with the words Ha yatslakh avdee Mashikha, “Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper”…common sense says it must refer to Jesus.
There are arguements against claims by the fact that some prophecies like Isaiah 2 (breaking swords into plowshares) and Isaiah II lamp and lion dwelling together) have not been fulfilled by his second coming creates too long a hiatus (of close to 2,000 years).

But what is 2,000 years in the sight of God, waiting patiently for his people to respond and accept his annointed One Yeshua,ben Elohim?
Click to expand...
There’s nothing in our scripture that even hints at Jesus being the Messiah or God. I understand you read the scripture differently. YOu start with the fact that Jesus is GOd and then look for verse that confirms this. Jews do not read the Hebrew Bible that way.

I’m willing to wait anouther 2,000 years if necessary. How long are you willing to wait for your Jesus to return?
 
MARK 10:46-52

They came from Jericho. As he went out from Jericho, with his disciples and a great multitude, the Son of Timaeus, Bartimaeus, a bling beggar, was sitting by the road. when he heard that it was Jesus the Nazarene, he began to cry out and say “Jesus, you SON OF DAVID, have mercy on me”.
Many rebuked him, that he should be quiet, but he cried out much more, “You SON OF DAVID”, have mercy on me".

And the blind man believed that he is Jesus the “Messiah” who was predicted to be a direct descendant of David.
 
As to Sanhedrein 98 (I am assuming you mean 98a), there is a discussion among rabbis as to when the Messiah will come. Since there are at least three opinions, I can’t see how you can say the Talmud supports the belief that Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus.
When someone quotes the Talmud, I usually like to do something that the person quoting it has not. Read it. Here’s what I read on Sanhedrin 98a:

R. Hanina said: The Son of David will not come until a fish is sought for an invalid and cannot be procured, as it is written, Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil; whilst it is written, in that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth. (Not quoting Isaiah, but Eziekal).

R. Hama b. Hanina said: The son of David will not come until even the pettiest kingdom ceases [to have power] over Israel, as it is written, He shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches; and this is followed by, in that time shall the present be brought unto the Lord of hosts of a people that is scattered and peeled.

Here, Isaiah 53 is in fact being quoted. It is being quoted to support this Rabbis belief that the Messiah will not come until every kingdom ceases to have any power of Israel. This was obviously not the case in the time of Jesus.

Something else you should consider. This is a discussion of when the Messiah will come , not when he came. And it was clearly written after the life of Jesus. SO it can not by any stretch of the imagination be used as a kind of proof text to support the claim that Jesus is the Messiah.
 
Valke2 said:
There’s nothing in our scripture that even hints at Jesus being the Messiah or God. I understand you read the scripture differently. YOu start with the fact that Jesus is GOd and then look for verse that confirms this. Jews do not read the Hebrew Bible that way.

I’m willing to wait anouther 2,000 years if necessary. How long are you willing to wait for your Jesus to return?
Click to expand...
Well, perhaps it is you who reads the Scriptures differently…
What about Daniel 9:26, And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. (The city and sanctuary were destroyed A.D. 70. Messiah had to come and be cut off before then).
The manner of his birth in a supernatural way is recorded in Isaiah 7:14. Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 (5 in Heb.) says: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The almighty god, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The place of his birth is foretold by Micah, the prophet in verse 5:2 (5:1 in Hebrew), But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
 
Kaninchen said:
Now that’s what I call desperate.
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I’d call it Scripture to you. Where is there desperation here? It is written. It is a fact. This is suppose to be a good thread of discussion, if you cannot discuss this on an intellectual level, then don’t discuss it at all.
 
Righteousone said:
Well, perhaps it is you who reads the Scriptures differently…
What about Daniel 9:26, And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. (The city and sanctuary were destroyed A.D. 70. Messiah had to come and be cut off before then).
The manner of his birth in a supernatural way is recorded in Isaiah 7:14. Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 9:6 (5 in Heb.) says: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The almighty god, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The place of his birth is foretold by Micah, the prophet in verse 5:2 (5:1 in Hebrew), But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Click to expand...
It’s quite amazing just how many ‘predictions’ Jesus fulfilled - as long as they they could be achieved by heavy text interpretation (cynically, ‘manipulation’), of course.

Reading the Tanakh ‘backwards’ from the Christian scriptures, Jesus makes sense. Reading the Tanakh forwards . . . no sense at all.
 
Righteousone said:
I’d call it Scripture to you. Where is there desperation here? It is written. It is a fact. This is suppose to be a good thread of discussion, if you cannot discuss this on an intellectual level, then don’t discuss it at all.
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Begging for ‘bling’? The guy was begging for bling? Jesus cured him of his blindness to gaudy jewelry?

Wow!
 
Namesake said:
One of the first arguments against Jesus as messiah is that He is not a direct descendant of David.
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Can you PROVE the above statement?

Can any modern living person PROVE they are direct descendants of David?

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
I always just point out to Jews that Gentiles all over the world mostly came to know about the God of Israel because of Jesus. If not for him the Bible wouldn’t have been translated into all the languages telling about God to all people of the world.

That is a main qualification of Messiah, being a light to the Gentiles revealing God. So that part of the prophecy is almost fulfilled, no time left for anyone but Jesus to be responsible for it. It’s almost impossible to deny that Jesus is that Messiah now.

So here, Gentiles are on the right path, but Jews reject it:

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 1:12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
 
Namesake said:
One of the first arguments against Jesus as messiah is that He is not a direct descendant of David.
Click to expand...
In my book Jesus is David’s son who died for his sin with Bathsheba, resurrected into Mary. Can’t get any more direct than that.
 
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